Why I’m Still a NeverTrumper

[Sanguine]

Bullshit.  Posting articles like this is about one thing that has nothing to do with any of the things you listed above.  It's another attempt to put a wedge between members.  I don't really understand a possible end goal in that other than causing chaos here and trying to put an end to the forum.  You know how I know what you wrote above is bullshit?  Because stating an opinion here in this forum has absolutely no bearing on whether Trump can forward an agenda or not.  Are y'all so fragile that your decision to support a particular man must be validated with every comment here?  It sure comes across that way.  Let me try to help you a little; good job picking the winner out of what you claim was a 50/50 contest.  Good job.

Ooooh, three-pointer, @RoosGirl!

[aligncare]

Bullshit.  Posting articles like this is about one thing that has nothing to do with any of the things you listed above.  It's another attempt to put a wedge between members.  I don't really understand a possible end goal in that other than causing chaos here and trying to put an end to the forum.  You know how I know what you wrote above is bullshit?  Because stating an opinion here in this forum has absolutely no bearing on whether Trump can forward an agenda or not.  Are y'all so fragile that your decision to support a particular man must be validated with every comment here?  It sure comes across that way.  Let me try to help you a little; good job picking the winner out of what you claim was a 50/50 contest.  Good job.

Your opinion means nothing to me. You’ve been wrong about Trump at every turn. Sorry, regarding Trump, you’re a loser.

[roamer_1]

corruption and heavy-handed govt ... carefully manicured public image

LOL! The very same can be said of Trump.

a beauty pageant with a President that has a glittering, shiny image even if there may be nothing good behind it.

Trump sommore. What's the difference?

When it comes to choosing leadership, for too many it's the inner catty jr. high cheerleader that rules the day.

EXACTLY the argument against Trump and his supporters.

[RoosGirl]

Your opinion means nothing to me. You’ve been wrong about Trump at every turn. Sorry, regarding Trump, you’re a loser.

My comment has nothing to do with Trump, it has to do with *you* and the rest of your "crew".

[Free Vulcan]

LOL! The very same can be said of Trump.

Trump sommore. What's the difference?

EXACTLY the argument against Trump and his supporters.

I was no Trump fan, but once he became President, I figured I had one of two choices - either nitpick him to death over his failings, or hope he did a good job as Prez.

So far I've had few disappointments. Still not a fan of the tweeting, but he's been doing the right things, warts and all.

[roamer_1]

I was no Trump fan, but once he became President, I figured I had one of two choices - either nitpick him to death over his failings, or hope he did a good job as Prez.

So far I've had few disappointments. Still not a fan of the tweeting, but he's been doing the right things, warts and all.

Meh... Much ado about hardly nothing. Mostly things that won't actually be enacted in his administration (Paris accord, Jerusalem), or (like EOs). easily reversed within the next administration...
This is starting to feel a whole lot like Dubya's first term.

[Free Vulcan]

Meh... Much ado about hardly nothing. Mostly things that won't actually be enacted in his administration (Paris accord, Jerusalem), or (like EOs). easily reversed within the next administration...
This is starting to feel a whole lot like Dubya's first term.

He's used the tools he's got, but we have a separate-but-equal govt. He can't get much done if McConnell or Ryan choose to drag their feet.

[INVAR]

What’s your excuse why you’re still NeverTrump?

You declared us an enemy and traitors over our refusal to genuflect your prince.

You declared that either we are with you or against you.

Fine said I - I'm decidedly against you.

I decided to live up to the charges levied.   I consider your party as every bit an enemy of liberty as the Democrat party, and just as corrupt if not moreso - and I'm doing my part to end it and start over elsewhere.

Trump is as irrelevant to me as was Obama.

[INVAR]

He's used the tools he's got, but we have a separate-but-equal govt. He can't get much done if McConnell or Ryan choose to drag their feet.

So I guess the Art of the Dealmaker from Olympus has not delivered upon his acolytes' promise that his power to negotiate and make deals are divine and supernatural.

False prophets abound if His MAGAnificence cannot make deals with the leaders of his own party that he took over in a quasi-coup.

[musiclady]

Ooooh, three-pointer, @RoosGirl!

Swish!  Nothing but net. @RoosGirl

[musiclady]

For the record, for all the bitching you people do about being 'tired of' the same old NT arguments - it's shit like this and your snark-in-the-face and constant flick-our-noses because we do not worship and genuflect at the altar of Trump, that keeps this permanent rivalry stoked for nastiness.

The NT issue keeps coming up with bitter thread arguments because you people insist on regurgitating it, as if these silly and insipid efforts to shame those who do not seig-heil your political savior is somehow going to change any minds. 

All you continue to do, is widen the gulf to the point that I cannot discern the difference in threat to liberty with groupthink between you or the Left.

 

[musiclady]

I think it might be a nice time to point out this article is about LEFTIST "Never Trumpers," and any random shots being taken at any of the Never Trump folks here are conflating the two in order to cast some Briefers in a very negative light, possibly deliberately.  IOW, just another stating of the old argument "If you aren't 100% for Donald Trump, you are actually for Hillary Clinton."

This was debunked last year, but it still comes up.

That's because the concept of free thought and independent spirit is anathema to them.   They can't understand anything less than blind devotion.

It's sad.

[Free Vulcan]

So I guess the Art of the Dealmaker from Olympus has not delivered upon his acolytes' promise that his power to negotiate and make deals are divine and supernatural.

False prophets abound if His MAGAnificence cannot make deals with the leaders of his own party that he took over in a quasi-coup.

One can't clap with one hand. People get upset because they feel like Trump thinks Congress should kiss his butt, yet they feel Trump should kiss Congress' butt to get them to the table.

I'm not comfortable with the idea that somehow needs to exercise some sort of overpowering Executive leadership to force Congress to meet with him. We can't complain about him acting like a dictator, then expect him to act like a dictator.

McConnell and Ryan are big boys that need to put on their big boy pants and do the job they were elected to do. Complaining that they can't come to the table because Trump is a meanie doesn't cut it. They need to buck up.

They sure didn't have a problem meeting with that douche Obama.

[roamer_1]

He's used the tools he's got, but we have a separate-but-equal govt. He can't get much done if McConnell or Ryan choose to drag their feet.

No, he MADE the chaotic mess in DC. He bloody well pissed off everyone he would need to move anything big through legislation. I don't think much at all about McTurtle and Ryan - Trump, the 'great negotiator' made his bed. He should get the credit when he has to lie in it.

[Cyber Liberty]

Your opinion means nothing to me. You’ve been wrong about Trump at every turn. Sorry, regarding Trump, you’re a loser.

"And in so stating...."

[Free Vulcan]

No, he MADE the chaotic mess in DC. He bloody well pissed off everyone he would need to move anything big through legislation. I don't think much at all about McTurtle and Ryan - Trump, the 'great negotiator' made his bed. He should get the credit when he has to lie in it.

McConnell and Ryan got a job to do. They may not like Trump, but they need to suck it up, put their feeling and egos aside, and knock it off with the hurt feelings rap.

Every time Obama snapped his fingers, they came running to appease that egotistical ass. It's not like they don't have practice.

If a guy says he wants to deal, I don't care about his personality, I'm going to hold his feet to the fire.

[roamer_1]

McConnell and Ryan got a job to do. They may not like Trump, but they need to suck it up, put their feeling and egos aside, and knock it off with the hurt feelings rap.

That ain't gonna happen. Trump has made this a 'kiss the ring' thing, And I don't blame a damn one of them for telling him to GFY.
And Trump did that on purpose.

If a guy says he wants to deal, I don't care about his personality, I'm going to hold his feet to the fire.

If the guy isn't trustworthy, lies all the time (even when it doesn't matter), I wouldn't deal with him either.

He set this up on purpose this way. The only solution is to kiss his ass, or not play... Guess where that goes.

[Free Vulcan]

That ain't gonna happen. Trump has made this a 'kiss the ring' thing, And I don't blame a damn one of them for telling him to GFY.
And Trump did that on purpose.

If the guy isn't trustworthy, lies all the time (even when it doesn't matter), I wouldn't deal with him either.

He set this up on purpose this way. The only solution is to kiss his ass, or not play... Guess where that goes.

They put together the tax bill, and though it certainly wasn't everything I wanted, was signed by Trump, like he said he would. I would have like alot more, but it was a slight improvement.

Power guys like Trump who do alot of big loud talking, you have to walk in there bat swinging, do all the preliminary dick jousting, don't back down, and when all the ego bruising is over, hammer something out.

Ryan and McConnell have equal negotiating positions. They have leverage. Guys like Trump need to save face, both because of ego and that they are the guy in the big chair.

It's an opportunity, not the time to back away because the guy across the table isn't some slick talking figurehead who's a good schmoozer and does great press conferences. Complaining about the rough edges as an excuse not to come to the table is just catty cheerleader posturing.

That's what Ryan and McConnell got elected for. If they're not up to the task, they need to step down for someone who can.

[goodwithagun]

Bullshit.  Posting articles like this is about one thing that has nothing to do with any of the things you listed above.  It's another attempt to put a wedge between members.  I don't really understand a possible end goal in that other than causing chaos here and trying to put an end to the forum.  You know how I know what you wrote above is bullshit?  Because stating an opinion here in this forum has absolutely no bearing on whether Trump can forward an agenda or not.  Are y'all so fragile that your decision to support a particular man must be validated with every comment here?  It sure comes across that way.  Let me try to help you a little; good job picking the winner out of what you claim was a 50/50 contest.  Good job.

Damn, girl! That’s one helluva Hillary slap you just gave @aligncare and @Right_in_Virginia ! 

[INVAR]

McConnell and Ryan are big boys that need to put on their big boy pants and do the job they were elected to do. Complaining that they can't come to the table because Trump is a meanie doesn't cut it. They need to buck up.

They sure didn't have a problem meeting with that douche Obama.

They shared the same agenda: Big Government Statism.

Trump is all about Trump and not the supremacy of the state for the sake of the Establishment, which puts him and his ego at odds with what both the GOP and the Democrats worked hard together to achieve under His Heinous Barrack The Won.

[Cyber Liberty]

Geez, passive aggressive much?

I think she made a resolution to stop that after midnight, and she's trying to get it all out of her system to keep from having an Aneurysm from quitting too abruptly.

[Silver Pines]

I’ve been mulling this over. I think NeverTrumpers object to Trump’s honesty. He says exactly what’s on his mind. He rarely demurs except on matters of national security strategy or politics.

Take his recent interview with the New York Times reporter. Walks into the interview in the Grill Room of his golf club in West Palm Beach, alone, no staff, no press spokesmen, no policy advisers around him to clarify Trump’s answers. And no need for the reporter to guess where Trump stands on an issue; he doesn’t give focus tested responses. It’s Trump Raw.

He’s ineloquent and braggadocios, but that’s him: straightforward and honest. And for reasons I don’t quite understand, this bothers the people that prefer obfuscation, diplomacy and theater from their president — like an Obama.

@aligncare

The question is why you’re spending your time “mulling” and trying to figure it out. 

What difference does it make that some people don’t like Trump?

Why do you care so much?

[Silver Pines]

I guess they prefer all of Hillary's corruption and heavy-handed govt to hide behind her carefully manicured public image, than someone rough around the edges who turns out has made some good policy decisions so far.

But, there all always those who want a beauty pageant with a President that has a glittering, shiny image even if there may be nothing good behind it. When it comes to choosing leadership, for too many it's the inner catty jr. high cheerleader that rules the day.

@Free Vulcan

Personally, at this point, I don’t think Trump is nearly as bad as some of his supporters.  My God, I thought the Sarah Palin nuts were insufferable.

[Silver Pines]

This isn’t an election. It’s about rallying support to get a conservative agenda passed—which Trump has been pursuing with some measurable success. It’s about slashing federal regulations and bureaucracy, again which President Trump has shown he’s aggressively pursuing.

It’s about improving government away from the status quo in which only the president—with precious little help from republicans and no help from the democrats—is in a position to affect at this moment in time.

Why anyone from our side would be joining the Left in vilifying Trump is beyond me. Trump IS the army we have, not the army you all pine for.  Are you in this battle to win or to prove how right you are about Donald Trump?

@aligncare

Please stop with the nonsense that criticism of Trump on an online forum is helping the left, blocking his agenda, etc.

If Trump can’t get it done without an absence of criticism, he’s pretty weak and pathetic.  I’m surprised you don’t have more confidence in him.

[Free Vulcan]

@Free Vulcan

Personally, at this point, I don’t think Trump is nearly as bad as some of his supporters.  My God, I thought the Sarah Palin nuts were insufferable.

I'm part of the Stealers Wheel contingent. Trump is what we got, and we may not like some of the circus that surrounds him, or his rough awkwardness at times, but he's there for 4 years.

But unlike Obama, there is a decent chance that if Congress will step up to the plate, we might get some good things done.

If Trump goes liberal, then I'm going to run away on fire.

So far, so good, and we'll see what happens tommorow.