Author Topic: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform  (Read 4801 times)

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Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2017, 06:38:47 pm »
No the Marxists always lose in the end, always.   Historically they have to kill a lot of people and destroy nations before they hit bottom though.

Ahh.  Thank you for confirming that Trump and the republicans are committed to destroying the US since they’ve now adopted, and doubled down on, the “Marxist” income tax. 

Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2017, 06:39:36 pm »
They've been winning for 150 years now! Time to turn the tables on them!


By becoming one of them?  How is that turning the tables on them?

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2017, 06:40:42 pm »
I also wonder how much of the money kept overseas is residing in German banks that might be reduced significantly once the tax law goes into effect allowing a relaxed penalty to move that money back to the US.

Translation: German banks will be holding billions of less dollars.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Bigun

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2017, 06:43:04 pm »
By becoming one of them?  How is that turning the tables on them?

Using their own tactics to defeat them is not joining them!   

I CAN answer a question.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 06:43:53 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2017, 06:43:50 pm »
I also wonder how much of the money kept overseas is residing in German banks that might be reduced significantly once the tax law goes into effect allowing a relaxed penalty to move that money back to the US.

Translation: German banks will be holding billions of less dollars.

You do realize, don’t you, that all the big German banks, and some of the small ones, have US branches? 

Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2017, 06:44:32 pm »
Using their own tactics to defeat them is not joining them!   

I CAN answer a question.

Adopting Marxism makes you a Marxist.  You don’t defeat the Marxists by becoming a Marxist. 

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2017, 06:47:28 pm »
By becoming one of them?  How is that turning the tables on them?

Lowering taxes is becoming a marxist?!?!?!?!?!

up is down north is south eh
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Online Bigun

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2017, 06:48:28 pm »
Adopting Marxism makes you a Marxist.  You don’t defeat the Marxists by becoming a Marxist.

Using Marxist tactics to defeat Marxists does not make one a Marxist!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2017, 06:50:46 pm »
You do realize, don’t you, that all the big German banks, and some of the small ones, have US branches?

Come again? Deusche Bank maybe has a handful of branches here. One other has a NY branch. You'd be hard pressed to see much German banking going on here.

Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2017, 06:50:46 pm »
It is a simple question. You raised "United States’ obligations under the tax treaties," so you owe forum participants a brief concise explanation of what you mean.

I will restate my question: What do "United States’ obligations under the tax treaties," have to do with reduced corporate tax rates?

Enlighten the whole forum.   

You really are clueless. You haven’t the faintest idea what’s in the tax bill other than the few choice morsels that have been fed to you.  There are provisions in the bill that deny otherwise allowable interest deductions when the interest is paid to a foreign related party.  That is an implicit tax on the interest income earned by the foreign related party and is probably a violation of some of the income tax treaties the US is a party to under which interest income is only subject to tax by the country of residence. 

The US had similar problems with the branch profits tax, which is designed to be a proxy for the tax on dividends, and the US had to renegotiate a lot of treaties to include the branch profits tax to avoid violating those treaties.

Why not try reading about what was in that bill instead of responding Pavlov-dog style to the bells rung for you by Lord Trump and the republicans?

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2017, 06:58:00 pm »
@Oceander - when will you answer the question rather than throwing mud on the wall to see what sticks?  @truth_seeker has asked politely twice and you ignore him.
In my professional experience, with international corporate taxation and accounting, it would be an easy thing to provide a concise brief explanation aimed at laypersons.

Some accountants are nearly tongue tied, when it comes to speaking. But they crank out the figures, fine. Hardly ever met a lawyer that was tongue tied on his chosen field of specialization.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2017, 07:11:27 pm »
You do realize, don’t you, that all the big German banks, and some of the small ones, have US branches?
They do not keep overseas money from US companies in US branches.

What is your point?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:19:07 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2017, 07:15:53 pm »
You do realize, don’t you, that all the big German banks, and some of the small ones, have US branches?

As do British, French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, Chinese, banks. So what? 
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2017, 07:21:05 pm »
They do not keep overseas money from US companies in US branches.

What is your point?

That is the choice of the customer.  If the customer moved the money from an offshore branch to an onshore branch of the bank, why should the bank care?  It still earns fees on that money. 

Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2017, 07:22:42 pm »
In my professional experience, with international corporate taxation and accounting, it would be an easy thing to provide a concise brief explanation aimed at laypersons.

Some accountants are nearly tongue tied, when it comes to speaking. But they crank out the figures, fine. Hardly ever met a lawyer that was tongue tied on his chosen field of specialization.

For someone who claims such expertise, why don’t you regale is on your command of international taxation.  I’m all ears.

Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2017, 07:23:55 pm »
As do British, French, Spanish, Italian, Japanese, Chinese, banks. So what? 

/snicker

So now you’re an expert in banks as well as international and domestic corporate taxation.  Why you’re almost as smart as The Orange God. 

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2017, 07:46:56 pm »
That is the choice of the customer.  If the customer moved the money from an offshore branch to an onshore branch of the bank, why should the bank care?  It still earns fees on that money.
You are not even on the same page.  It makes all the difference in the world of taxes if money is kept in the US vs somewhere else.

The tax bill allows easier repatriation of monies to the US of US companies who have kept money earned overseas due to tax consequences.

What in the world are you talking about?  Mud against the wall again or is it something else, Dork?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Oceander

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2017, 07:55:40 pm »
You are not even on the same page.  It makes all the difference in the world of taxes if money is kept in the US vs somewhere else.

The tax bill allows easier repatriation of monies to the US of US companies who have kept money earned overseas due to tax consequences.

What in the world are you talking about?  Mud against the wall again or is it something else, Dork?


Duh.  But your point was that the German banks were worried about losing all that money if it was invested in the US. My point is simply that they probably aren’t worried because the money that will be invested in the us will move through their us branches.  One pocket or the other, it’s dtill the same pair of pants. 

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2017, 07:59:22 pm »
Duh.  But your point was that the German banks were worried about losing all that money if it was invested in the US. My point is simply that they probably aren’t worried because the money that will be invested in the us will move through their us branches.  One pocket or the other, it’s dtill the same pair of pants.

While the tax reform is an overall good, the claims made by both sides are hyperbolic idiocy.

We're not going to die, nor is the rest of the world quaking in fear that all their jobs are going to flow to the USA.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2017, 08:02:08 pm »
Duh.  But your point was that the German banks were worried about losing all that money if it was invested in the US. My point is simply that they probably aren’t worried because the money that will be invested in the us will move through their us branches.  One pocket or the other, it’s dtill the same pair of pants.
I see what you are saying, but the implicit assumption you make is that the money will remain in German banks in US rather than in what is more likely, US banks used by the big internationals.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2017, 08:14:29 pm »
Why don’t you read up on the issues so you can ask intelligent questions.  Take a few minutes time away from worshipping Lord Trump.

@Oceander
@truth_seeker asked a very polite and reasonable question.

Why don't you take a minute away from your Trump bashing to address his question?
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2017, 08:21:44 pm »
IMO the real question is why do some "Americans" have more concern for German companies and people then they do our own.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2017, 08:39:11 pm »
I will be fascinated to learn how much money gets repatriated, with reduced taxation rates under the new law

Here is a liberal source, for the current law, since the resident professional expert will not enlighten the gathered unwashed here.

Urban Institute & Brookings Institute

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-does-current-system-international-taxation-work

"How the United States Taxes Foreign-Source Income"

"The federal government taxes US resident multinational firms on their worldwide income at the same rates applied to domestic firms; the current maximum tax rate—the rate that applies to most corporate income—is 35 percent. US multinationals may claim a credit for taxes paid to foreign governments on income earned abroad, but only up to their US tax liability on that income. Firms may, however, take advantage of cross-crediting, using excess credits from income earned in high-tax countries to offset US tax due on income earned in low-tax countries.

US multinationals generally pay tax on the income of their foreign subsidiaries only when they repatriate the income, a delay of taxation termed “deferral.” Deferral, the credit limitation, and cross-crediting all provide strong incentives for firms to shift income from the United States and other high-tax countries to low-tax countries.

Suppose, for example, a US-based multinational firm facing the 35 percent maximum corporate income tax rate earns $800 in profits in its Irish subsidiary (figure 1). The 12.5 percent Irish corporate tax reduces the after-tax profit to $700. Suppose the firm then repatriates $70 of this profit and reinvests the remaining $630 in its Irish operations. The firm must then pay US tax on a base of $80 (the $70 plus the $10 in Irish tax paid on that portion of its profits), or $28, but it claims a credit for the $10 Irish tax, leaving a net US tax of $18. If the firm has excess foreign tax credits from operations in high-tax countries, it can offset more (or possibly all) of the US tax due on its repatriated Irish profit. Meanwhile, deferral allows the remaining profit ($630) to grow abroad, free of US income tax until it is repatriated."
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline edpc

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2017, 12:38:03 am »
They've been winning for 150 years now! Time to turn the tables on them!

Is that kind of like this?

I’ve abandoned free market principles to save the free market system.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline jpsb

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Re: Germans fear huge loss of jobs from US tax reform
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2017, 12:48:26 am »

Wouldn 't you be happier a DU or Huffington?