Matt Lauer terminated from Today Show because of inappropriate behavior

[RoosGirl]

Indirectly, it has happened.  What has been said about coerced ("consensual") sex is important.

That's where the "power" thing comes in.  That's why Clinton was guilty with Lewinsky.

She said "yes," but he was still a predator, abusing his power.

That distinction needs to remain clear.

Oh, nonsense.  You are assuming things that are not told you in the story.  You *might* be right, but you could just as easily be wrong.

[RoosGirl]

@RoosGirl
You have, you are arguing that what he's done was consensual.  The guy is a scum bag who has dont so much damage to America by abusing his media power.  We should celebrate his removal.

Again nonsense.  I'm saying that the way the article reads it sounds consensual.  Clearly there were other things going on.  I am commenting on just this one article.

[Frank Cannon]

Again nonsense.  I'm saying that the way the article reads it sounds consensual.  Clearly there were other things going on.  I am commenting on just this one article.

How dare you bring facts into this thread. Emotions and anger are the only things allowed.

Sorry, but I just had to report you to the Mods for not following the rules here.

[RoosGirl]

How dare you bring facts into this thread. Emotions and anger are the only things allowed.

Sorry, but I just had to report you to the Mods for not following the rules here.

Since I don't have any emotions that's going to be hard for me.

[driftdiver]

Again nonsense.  I'm saying that the way the article reads it sounds consensual.  Clearly there were other things going on.  I am commenting on just this one article.

@RoosGirl
Under current law a manager cannot have consensual sex with a subordinate (legally).   Of course it happens a lot but his position makes it coercive. 

Regardless a powerful lefty is out, celebrate.

[Frank Cannon]

Since I don't have any emotions that's going to be hard for me.

Just got word back from the Mods on your infractions. You are to do three things to keep from getting banned.

1) Sit the eff down.

2) Shut the eff up.

3) Use this as your avatar:

[driftdiver]

Just got word back from the Mods on your infractions. You are to do three things to keep from getting banned.

1) Sit the eff down.

2) Shut the eff up.

3) Use this as your avatar:

You're both women, of course you're evil.

[RoosGirl]

@RoosGirl
Under current law a manager cannot have consensual sex with a subordinate (legally).   Of course it happens a lot but his position makes it coercive. 

Regardless a powerful lefty is out, celebrate.

Please quote the lines in the article where it says this woman was a subordinate.

[driftdiver]

Please quote the lines in the article where it says this woman was a subordinate.

@RoosGirl
Really thats the hill you're gonna stake your flag on?

Considering who he was and his power at that network nearly everyone could be considered a subordinate.  The exception being some of the other stars and the President of NBC.   He was one of the most powerful men in that organization.   All he had to say is  "get rid of her" and she would be gone.

[RoosGirl]

@RoosGirl
Really thats the hill you're gonna stake your flag on?

Considering who he was and his power at that network nearly everyone could be considered a subordinate.  The exception being some of the other stars and the President of NBC.   He was one of the most powerful men in that organization.   All he had to say is  "get rid of her" and she would be gone.

You're the one that brought in the "legality" of it all.  Was she his subordinate or not?  We don't even know her name, so there's no way we can know the answer to that question.  You *could* be right, but so could I.  I think I won't assume to know the answer.

[musiclady]

Oh, nonsense.  You are assuming things that are not told you in the story.  You *might* be right, but you could just as easily be wrong.

I may say things that you don't agree with, but none of them is "nonsense."

We are all speculating here, but if he is in a position of power and there was some sort of threat involved, then it was not consensual.

There is no more nonsense in my opinion/speculation than in yours.

Matt Lauer is clearly not an honorable man, so my guess is that my speculation has more likelihood of being what happened than giving him the benefit of the doubt.

[RoosGirl]

I may say things that you don't agree with, but none of them is "nonsense."

We are all speculating here, but if he is in a position of power and there was some sort of threat involved, then it was not consensual.

There is no more nonsense in my opinion/speculation than in yours.

Matt Lauer is clearly not an honorable man, so my guess is that my speculation has more likelihood of being what happened than giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Except that my "opinion" is easily supported based on the information that was given in the article that I have been speaking about and making very clear that I am speaking about.  I'm not just throwing opinion around about what I think of the guy based on some preconceived notion I have about the type of man he is.

[musiclady]

@RoosGirl
Really thats the hill you're gonna stake your flag on?

Considering who he was and his power at that network nearly everyone could be considered a subordinate.  The exception being some of the other stars and the President of NBC.   He was one of the most powerful men in that organization.   All he had to say is  "get rid of her" and she would be gone.

It's really important to keep in mind the power issue.

In all these recent cases of accusations of predatory behavior, the man involved has been in a position of authority.

It's a factor that can't be sloughed off easily.  Lauer had power at NBC, and you are right in that the women there could all be considered subordinates.

[musiclady]

Except that my "opinion" is easily supported based on the information that was given in the article that I have been speaking about and making very clear that I am speaking about.  I'm not just throwing opinion around about what I think of the guy based on some preconceived notion I have about the type of man he is.

Nor am I.

That's where the issue of his being in power over the women needs to be factored in.

(Again...... Clinton/Lewinsky was "consensual" and still an abuse of power and therefore put Clinton in the wrong).

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I may say things that you don't agree with, but none of them is "nonsense."

We are all speculating here, but if he is in a position of power and there was some sort of threat involved, then it was not consensual.

There is no more nonsense in my opinion/speculation than in yours.

Matt Lauer is clearly not an honorable man, so my guess is that my speculation has more likelihood of being what happened than giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Seemed to me she was simply making a distinction between stating speculations as speculations and stating speculations as facts.

[RoosGirl]

Nor am I.

That's where the issue of his being in power over the women needs to be factored in.

(Again...... Clinton/Lewinsky was "consensual" and still an abuse of power and therefore put Clinton in the wrong).

He abused his power over her huh, just because they possibly had consensual sex?  Who is the woman?  What was her position within the organization?

[musiclady]

Seemed to me she was simply making a distinction between stating speculations as speculations and stating speculations as facts.

Neither of us did that.  (That's what the word "IF" implies.  Get it?)

The only thing I stated as fact was that Matt Lauer is not an honorable man.

Are you here to argue with me on that?

[musiclady]

He abused his power over her huh, just because they possibly had consensual sex?  Who is the woman?  What was her position within the organization?

Curious............. is that what you said when Clinton abused his power and had consensual sex with Monica?

Lauer was in a position of power.  That changes the dynamic of what is or is not, consensual.

That is the only point I'm making, and I see no need to repeat the same thing again.

[RoosGirl]

Curious............. is that what you said when Clinton abused his power and had consensual sex with Monica?

Lauer was in a position of power.  That changes the dynamic of what is or is not, consensual.

That is the only point I'm making, and I see no need to repeat the same thing again.

And this woman could have been in a position of equal power.  We don't know, do we, because we don't know who she is?

[Cyber Liberty]

The only thing I stated as fact was that Matt Lauer is not an honorable man.

I think we've known that for years, based on the way he's done is day job. 

What's new here is the allegation he's been banging on the hired help like a screen door in a hurricane, if you'll excuse the expression.  The allegation is serious and confirmed well enough for him to get sacked for Cause like that, and that's a pretty high threshold, considering the money involved (his contract).  If NBC's case was weak he'd be fighting this in court, and so far he is not.

[Cyber Liberty]

And this woman could have been in a position of equal power.  We don't know, do we, because we don't know who she is?

Is there a woman in a position of equal power?  I thought he was at the tippy-top of the power structure.

[RoosGirl]

Is there a woman in a position of equal power?  I thought he was at the tippy-top of the power structure.

What if it was Katie?

[RoosGirl]

Is there a woman in a position of equal power?  I thought he was at the tippy-top of the power structure.

I also don't know a thing about the ins and outs of NBC's organizational structure.  Is there not a VP at NBC that is a woman?  Don't know.  But that's kinda my point.  With this particular story only, we don't know.

[Cyber Liberty]

What if it was Katie?

There's that.  My guess is he doesn't have the guts or the stomach.  Just a guess.

[Jazzhead]

What if it was Katie?

From this morning's NYPost:

Katie Couric - who co-hosted with Lauer from his start in 1997 to her departure in 2006 - revealed in a June 2012 interview his "annoying" habit of getting too handsy with her.  "He pinches me on the ass a lot", Couric said on Bravo's :Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen".