Author Topic: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records  (Read 996 times)

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Offline austingirl

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“The Review-Journal requested documents on Oct. 2 and we have received little to no response,” Keith Moyer, Review-Journal editor-in-chief, said Friday. “Other media outlets across the United States have encountered the same outcome and share the Review-Journal’s concern about what amounts to an information shutdown — thus these actions, in an effort to help the public understand more about this historically horrible event.”

In a petition filed in federal court on Thursday, lawyers for the Review-Journal and other news organizations sought to unseal court affidavits submitted by FBI agents seeking permission to conduct searches of the shooter’s Mesquite home and other locations involved in the sweeping criminal investigation.

Because authorities have said the gunman acted alone, there is no valid reason to keep the documents secret, the petition states.
records,“ the petition says.

The news organizations — which include The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, The Washington Post, The Associated Press, CNN and ABC News — filed two separate petitions in District Court this week requesting additional records that Las Vegas police have refused to make public."


https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/review-journal-goes-to-court-to-obtain-las-vegas-shooting-records/


I'm glad to see the media is demanding answers.
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Offline Sanguine

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Yes, me too.

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"I didn't see any apparent wounds to his head. But I did see a lot of blood that had come out of his mouth," Dave Newtown recalled.

"There was a bloody revolver I think nearby. Nearby him that was on the ground consistent with him shooting himself" Joshua Bitsko added.


Authorities found that Paddock was already dead of an apparent suicide — a gunshot to the head.
[/b]

Nearby, the police found a “bloody revolver” and what seemed to be handwritten calculations Paddock had made about how his height and distance from the concert venue would affect the shooting.

Paddock’s brain has so far shown no obvious sign of tumour, injury or abnormality during a more routine autopsy conducted last week by Vegas coroners, according to officials — who have yet to release toxicology results or an official cause and manner of death.[/b]

Quoted material is from various sources. 60 Minutes, People magazine, the BBC.


This is a picture of the handgun lying on the floor from the picture of Paddock, I cropped. This can't be the gun he (supposedly) shot himself with, in the chest. They apparently had an intact brain to autopsy.  Soooo...he shoots himself in the chest and the gun lands behind him over his head? It appears to have a shell casing lying on it. How does that happen?



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Offline Applewood

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Toxicology tests often take weeks.  So nothing unusual about that.

Online bigheadfred

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Toxicology tests often take weeks.  So nothing unusual about that.

I agree, but....

They said he had a prescription for Valium and was taking 10mgs a day. You find a script of these pills, look at the date it was filled, count the number of pills, and from that you know he is taking 10 mgs a day? Pretty scientific.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Applewood

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I agree, but....

They said he had a prescription for Valium and was taking 10mgs a day. You find a script of these pills, look at the date it was filled, count the number of pills, and from that you know he is taking 10 mgs a day? Pretty scientific.

Agreed.  What I'm saying though is that there won't be an official cause of death until toxicology results are in.  And the supposed delay in obtaining those results is not unusual.    Where I live, it takes 6 weeks. Not sure about anywhere else.

Online bigheadfred

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https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/

Everything I've seen indicates the guy was normal. Not acting differently from the usual. So I don't know if the Valium was having an effect opposite of being a sedative.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online bigheadfred

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Agreed.  What I'm saying though is that there won't be an official cause of death until toxicology results are in.  And the supposed delay in obtaining those results is not unusual.    Where I live, it takes 6 weeks. Not sure about anywhere else.

We are pretty close to that 6 week mark now.  Given the severity of the crime, you would think they could bump the schedule. I guess it is just another day at the lab.  :shrug:
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Applewood

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https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-in-june/

Everything I've seen indicates the guy was normal. Not acting differently from the usual. So I don't know if the Valium was having an effect opposite of being a sedative.

There are conflicting opinions as to what Paddock's "normal" was.  Saw an interview with a gun store owner who said Paddock was a frequent customer and he was a nice guy.  Nothing he said or did set off alarm bells for this gun store owner.  But then there are some who say Paddock was a mean, miserable crazy person.   He might have had some mental illness that was undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. 

And Valium may be a contributing factor -- either by itself, particularly if taken to excess, or in combination with other prescription or non-prescription drugs/supplements or alcohol or caffeine.  It's not that easy to say it was the Valium that caused him to go off. The ME has to look at all possibilities.

Offline Applewood

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We are pretty close to that 6 week mark now.  Given the severity of the crime, you would think they could bump the schedule. I guess it is just another day at the lab.  :shrug:

I don't think it has to do with the severity of the crime.  Maybe if the death was that of a celebrity, that might speed things up.  But as I said in the previous post, the ME should explore all possibilities.  That is going to take time.  I would rather he take his time and be thorough than rush it through just because everyone is demanding answers.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2017, 03:24:35 pm »

.....

This is a picture of the handgun lying on the floor from the picture of Paddock, I cropped. This can't be the gun he (supposedly) shot himself with, in the chest. They apparently had an intact brain to autopsy.  Soooo...he shoots himself in the chest and the gun lands behind him over his head? It appears to have a shell casing lying on it. How does that happen?



@austingirl  @Sanguine  @Smokin Joe

I thought he shot himself in the head.  And, even if they don't have a completely intact brain, they should be able to determine gross abnormalities from what was left.

Is there evidence that he shot himself in the chest?

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2017, 03:52:03 pm »
I thought he shot himself in the head.  And, even if they don't have a completely intact brain, they should be able to determine gross abnormalities from what was left.

Is there evidence that he shot himself in the chest?

I'm no expert but there appears to be major blood loss through the mouth and nose, which seems to be more consistent with a wound in the chest and not the back of the head. There is no cranial deformation. Also, there appears to be a dark stain on his shirt. Again, a cropped image.





She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2017, 03:53:59 pm »
I'm no expert but there appears to be major blood loss through the mouth and nose, which seems to be more consistent with a wound in the chest and not the back of the head. There is no cranial deformation. Also, there appears to be a dark stain on his shirt. Again, a cropped image.



The way he was positioned you wouldn't be able to see the damage until you rolled him over.  Also, blood pool was around his head.  But, we're all just guessing.  Verifiable facts are few and far between.

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2017, 04:00:25 pm »
The way he was positioned you wouldn't be able to see the damage until you rolled him over.  Also, blood pool was around his head.  But, we're all just guessing.  Verifiable facts are few and far between.


The way the body lies also comes into question. Was he lying down with his foot under this gun when he shot himself?



Where are the powder burns on his face?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2017, 04:02:49 pm »


The way the body lies also comes into question. Was he lying down with his foot under this gun when he shot himself?



Where are the powder burns on his face?

I don't know about the gun, but the powder burns would be inside his mouth.  I'm relying on firsthand experience of a similar scene.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2017, 04:23:08 pm »
I don't know about the gun, but the powder burns would be inside his mouth.  I'm relying on firsthand experience of a similar scene.

Yes, I agree, and bow to your, IMO, unfortunate experience.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline austingirl

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2017, 04:39:34 pm »
@bigheadfred @Smokin Joe @Sanguine

I confess I am like a dog with a bone about this case. Very strange.

The point that the authorities claim he acted alone yet will release none of the information requested is well-taken.

As far as the Valium goes, if he had one prescription and had most of the pills left (as I have read), I doubt it is a factor.

It does look like he has a chest wound, but I read that he was shot in the mouth with no details about how much damage there was to the brain tissue. Stanford has the brain and the studies will take weeks.

Why haven't they released an inventory from the search warrants? In the early days, it was reported that he had several phones, computers, and other electronic devices. Did they take his houses apart, looking for hidden evidence? Did he livestream the massacre overseas?

They are still interviewing the girlfriend. Sheriff said he thinks she has to know something.

The thing that bothers me the most is the statement after twelve hours in that this was not terrorism and they may never know the motive. Why did they put that out there- giving up before they started?

The leaked photos are being investigated but again, they may never know how they leaked per the sheriff.

I think the FBI is in charge and they are only telling the sheriff a limited amount, letting him take the heat with the public.

Either this guy did act alone, for no apparent reason, amassing his weapons for a year, planning and executing without raising red flags anywhere- or-the FBI know this is part of something much bigger and darker. But they won't tell us.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 04:40:54 pm by austingirl »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2017, 08:44:46 pm »
I don't know about the gun, but the powder burns would be inside his mouth.  I'm relying on firsthand experience of a similar scene.
It would be unusual for a male to shoot himself in the chest. That's more of a woman thing, it leaves a better looking corpse. The roof of the mouth or side of the head shot risks last second bobbling and gross deformation.

Note, too, that that is not a small caliber handgun. I seem to recall it was a 'judge', which would be .45 long colt, in about the same power range as a .44 Remington Magnum.

As for the blood pool, hotel room floors tend to be level, so the blood will pool around the (in this case, exit) wound. Recalling the earlier pics, that might well mean a roof of the mouth shot.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2017, 09:06:14 pm »
@bigheadfred @Smokin Joe @Sanguine

I confess I am like a dog with a bone about this case. Very strange.

The point that the authorities claim he acted alone yet will release none of the information requested is well-taken.
It does seem as if such an announcement is intended to let any accomplices breathe easier and come up for air, possibly outing themselves.
Quote
As far as the Valium goes, if he had one prescription and had most of the pills left (as I have read), I doubt it is a factor.
Anyone who can wire 100 large somewhere can get anything they want. The Valium likely don;t mean much in the grand scheme of things. I will wait for tox.
Quote
It does look like he has a chest wound, but I read that he was shot in the mouth with no details about how much damage there was to the brain tissue. Stanford has the brain and the studies will take weeks.
If the brain is intact, sectioning should be a simpler matter. if not, tissue samples might still show gross abnormalities upon microscopic examination, but if the tissue wasn't destroyed in a head shot, it will suffer damage, and not be so neat as if the brain was intact. It may be more difficult to try and put that back together again to see the location of any specific biological abnormality.
Quote
Why haven't they released an inventory from the search warrants? In the early days, it was reported that he had several phones, computers, and other electronic devices. Did they take his houses apart, looking for hidden evidence? Did he livestream the massacre overseas?
Curious, but that may indicate the possible presence or even identity of anyone else involved. If they are using the lone wolf thing as a smokescreen, and trying to let accomplices come up for air, releasing that information--especially if there are definite indicators of others involved--would set the usual sites abuzz with talk about the second shooter and they'd go underground with a vengeance. My thoughts are that he did not or was not planning to (at least) act alone. I'm not saying he couldn't have acted alone, it just seems he had stocked up for a bigger party.
Quote
They are still interviewing the girlfriend. Sheriff said he thinks she has to know something.
Good.
Quote
The thing that bothers me the most is the statement after twelve hours in that this was not terrorism and they may never know the motive. Why did they put that out there- giving up before they started?
Standard announcement. 'Nuttin' to see here, move along please'. Besides, Terrorism could be bad for business. Especially when the FBI is involved. Some whackjob could go shoot up a mall yelling about that 'snackbar', detonate his bomb vest after planting an ISIS flag in the ficus tree, and the FBI would say it wasn't terrorism.
Quote

The leaked photos are being investigated but again, they may never know how they leaked per the sheriff.

I think the FBI is in charge and they are only telling the sheriff a limited amount, letting him take the heat with the public.

I think there are several factors at play, but behind it all is the FBI pulling strings.
Reason one: Terror is bad for business.
Just as if Flight 800 (FBI took over, pushing the NTSB aside, who usually do plane crashes) was shown to be a missile, the airline industry would have dropped way off. (Likely why the FBI interviewed zero of the ~140 people who saw something going up before the plane went down, and why the journalists who managed to obtain swatches of fabric from the plane contaminated with PETN were prosecuted and jailed.)

Reason Two: some guy commits a crime of this magnitude and no one saw anything? Which leaves people questioning the efficacy of all the surveillance being conducted on Americans in the name of counterterrorism. It also calls to question security protocols at the MGM resorts, specifically Mandalay Bay, and opens a liability window for lawsuits. I think a lot of the timeline and the interview with Ellen (also a MGM 'property') were designed to discourage such suits. I am not sure what the window is for filing suit in such a case, but they may be running out that clock.

Reason three, and time for tinfoil. The FBI was running a sting and it got away from them.
Quote
Either this guy did act alone, for no apparent reason, amassing his weapons for a year, planning and executing without raising red flags anywhere- or-the FBI know this is part of something much bigger and darker. But they won't tell us.
No argument here.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline austingirl

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Re: Las Vegas Review Journal goes to court to obtain las vegas shooting records
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2017, 10:39:42 pm »
It does seem as if such an announcement is intended to let any accomplices breathe easier and come up for air, possibly outing themselves.  Anyone who can wire 100 large somewhere can get anything they want. The Valium likely don;t mean much in the grand scheme of things. I will wait for tox. If the brain is intact, sectioning should be a simpler matter. if not, tissue samples might still show gross abnormalities upon microscopic examination, but if the tissue wasn't destroyed in a head shot, it will suffer damage, and not be so neat as if the brain was intact. It may be more difficult to try and put that back together again to see the location of any specific biological abnormality.Curious, but that may indicate the possible presence or even identity of anyone else involved. If they are using the lone wolf thing as a smokescreen, and trying to let accomplices come up for air, releasing that information--especially if there are definite indicators of others involved--would set the usual sites abuzz with talk about the second shooter and they'd go underground with a vengeance. My thoughts are that he did not or was not planning to (at least) act alone. I'm not saying he couldn't have acted alone, it just seems he had stocked up for a bigger party.  Good.  Standard announcement. 'Nuttin' to see here, move along please'. Besides, Terrorism could be bad for business. Especially when the FBI is involved. Some whackjob could go shoot up a mall yelling about that 'snackbar', detonate his bomb vest after planting an ISIS flag in the ficus tree, and the FBI would say it wasn't terrorism.
I think there are several factors at play, but behind it all is the FBI pulling strings.
Reason one: Terror is bad for business.
Just as if Flight 800 (FBI took over, pushing the NTSB aside, who usually do plane crashes) was shown to be a missile, the airline industry would have dropped way off. (Likely why the FBI interviewed zero of the ~140 people who saw something going up before the plane went down, and why the journalists who managed to obtain swatches of fabric from the plane contaminated with PETN were prosecuted and jailed.)

Reason Two: some guy commits a crime of this magnitude and no one saw anything? Which leaves people questioning the efficacy of all the surveillance being conducted on Americans in the name of counterterrorism. It also calls to question security protocols at the MGM resorts, specifically Mandalay Bay, and opens a liability window for lawsuits. I think a lot of the timeline and the interview with Ellen (also a MGM 'property') were designed to discourage such suits. I am not sure what the window is for filing suit in such a case, but they may be running out that clock.

Reason three, and time for tinfoil. The FBI was running a sting and it got away from them. No argument here.

@Smokin Joe

Good post. I agree with everything you said.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 10:40:09 pm by austingirl »
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