Army units test proposed Physical Fitness Test replacement

[endicom]

U. S. Army
By GUIDON staff, Fort Leonard Wood
Oct. 20, 2017

FORT LEONARD WOOD, Mo. -- The U.S. Army Center for Initial Military Training is here at Fort Leonard Wood this week in order to field test the Army Combat Readiness Test with Soldiers from the 1st Engineer, 3rd Chemical and 14th Military Police brigades.

According to CIMT officials, testing the program at the installation will help the Army determine the correct level of testing standards while allowing them to collect data on Soldier performance as the Army searches for the correct program to replace its aging Army Physical Fitness Test, which has been in place for nearly 40 years.

A CIMT study shows that the current APFT is only 39 percent predictive of a Soldier's ability to do his or her job, while the proposed ACRT is about 81 percent predictive.

More... https://www.army.mil/article/195673/army_units_test_proposed_physical_fitness_test_replacement

[RetBobbyMI]

Army jock worthiness tests have never nor can measure what is between the ears. It’s the hollow head that gets him or her and others killed, not the physical prowess. Not say physical conditioning isn’t important.

[dfwgator]

[endicom]

Army jock worthiness tests have never nor can measure what is between the ears. It’s the hollow head that gets him or her and others killed, not the physical prowess. Not say physical conditioning isn’t important.

I want to see the training be realistic in terms of future need. Physical training is in itself of value but practical exercise is, IMO, better.

@txradioguy

[txradioguy]

I want to see the training be realistic in terms of future need. Physical training is in itself of value but practical exercise is, IMO, better.

@txradioguy

They played around with this about 4 years ago with adding shuttle runs and a couple of other "creative" events added to a normal PT test.

Problem was that no one could 1) decide how to properly score it and b) decide what the age groups should be and whether to make it non gender specific or not.

The new Physical Readiness Training (PRT) that went along with the new test was breaking people left and right as well.

@endicom you're right practical physical fitness is better overall.

But at the end of the day...no matter how much you try to simulate it...nothing will get you in shape for combat like actually being in combat.

And there's not a test out there that can simulate it.

[txradioguy]

Army jock worthiness tests have never nor can measure what is between the ears. It’s the hollow head that gets him or her and others killed, not the physical prowess. Not say physical conditioning isn’t important.

Agreed.

[Night Hides Not]

Army jock worthiness tests have never nor can measure what is between the ears. It’s the hollow head that gets him or her and others killed, not the physical prowess. Not say physical conditioning isn’t important.

A bit O/T, but far more soldiers are killed by staff pukes forced into command slots as a prerequisite for promotion.

I was lucky to have served during a period of no combat (76-84). I did have one battery commander whose judgement was impaired during tax evals.

Fortunately for you all, l recognize these stories are interesting only to me...lol.

[txradioguy]

A bit O/T, but far more soldiers are killed by staff pukes forced into command slots as a prerequisite for promotion.

I was lucky to have served during a period of no combat (76-84). I did have one battery commander whose judgement was impaired during tax evals.

Fortunately for you all, l recognize these stories are interesting only to me...lol.

They are interesting to me too because I'm seeing history repeat itself. From your time in as well as my first hitch in the 90's.

[endicom]

They are interesting to me too because I'm seeing history repeat itself.

Doesn't it always? FDR had the luxury of a free hand in conducting his war so quietly dumping command officers was easily done. That situation was exceptional, the rot will always creep back in.

[txradioguy]

Doesn't it always? FDR had the luxury of a free hand in conducting his war so quietly dumping command officers was easily done. That situation was exceptional, the rot will always creep back in.

Or find a way to settle to the bottom and avoid detection.

[Night Hides Not]

I had no problems with the old PT test: push-ups, sit ups, and a two mile run. Easy to administer, no special equipment or facilities, standards were cut and dried.

Sounds like too many staff pukes have too much time on their hands.

[txradioguy]

I had no problems with the old PT test: push-ups, sit ups, and a two mile run. Easy to administer, no special equipment or facilities, standards were cut and dried.

Sounds like too many staff pukes have too much time on their hands.

That's what we're still doing.

The "need" to change started about 4 years ago when now retired LTG Mark Hertling was the Deputy CG at TRADOC.  He's a sports medicine guy...long distance bike rider etc he and his wife are both fitness nuts.  The PRT thing was his idea that lasted as a serious consideration until he retired suddenly as the USAREUR commander a couple years back.

But now it's one of those things that the disciples of Cross Fit have latched onto and refuse to let go.  This is their latest attempt.

[endicom]

That's what we're still doing.

The "need" to change started about 4 years ago when now retired LTG Mark Hertling was the Deputy CG at TRADOC.  He's a sports medicine guy...long distance bike rider etc he and his wife are both fitness nuts.  The PRT thing was his idea that lasted as a serious consideration until he retired suddenly as the USAREUR commander a couple years back.

But now it's one of those things that the disciples of Cross Fit have latched onto and refuse to let go.  This is their latest attempt.

Some years ago was a story about a Marine Corps Colonel who was pushing a rough form of hand-to-hand and who wanted every Marine to have that training. The Colonel was in great shape for a guy putting on the years but that's not true of everyone.

My thought went right to the NCOs no longer as limber as they once were. Put those guys in combat and they'll do what you ask but they might not survive being twisted around in training. Don't know how much of the Colonel's plan was put into play.

[truth_seeker]

Army jock worthiness tests have never nor can measure what is between the ears. It’s the hollow head that gets him or her and others killed, not the physical prowess. Not say physical conditioning isn’t important.

During my time as Personnel Management Specialist, in the Army, the most weight was given to higher IQ for Infantry aptitude.

To the best of my knowledge, this fact was concealed. I "figured it out," by reviewing over 1,000 enlisted personnel records.

[Taxcontrol]

I would advocate for 3 test:

Combat MOS test -  current PT test plus physical lifting plus timed road march
Combat support test - current PT test plus a physical lifting test
Support test - current PT test

Required test would be based on assignment.

[RetBobbyMI]

A bit O/T, but far more soldiers are killed by staff pukes forced into command slots as a prerequisite for promotion.

I was lucky to have served during a period of no combat (76-84). I did have one battery commander whose judgement was impaired during tax evals.

Fortunately for you all, l recognize these stories are interesting only to me...lol.

During that period, most units were still trying to “find” the tools they lost in Nam. Motor Pool days after days were nothing but inventory repetition.  Almost as long ago as the old 5 event pt test. The inverted crawl in Texas was almost notoriously run over with sand burrs.

[RetBobbyMI]

I would advocate for 3 test:

Combat MOS test -  current PT test plus physical lifting plus timed road march
Combat support test - current PT test plus a physical lifting test
Support test - current PT test

Required test would be based on assignment.

Arty=Combat, yet lifting 95# joes ain’t easy.

[txradioguy]

My thoughts on this whole mess are basically if it ain't broke don't fix it.

The current APFT is fine.  What needs to stop is units insisting on giving an APFT while soldiers are deployed in a combat zone.

Being in shape to pass an APFT and being in shape to walk a 20km dismounted patrol in battle rattle at 5,000 feet ASL is a totally different thing.

If I had to make one change I'd put into the APFT reg that if you are a female and you are in a Combat MOS when you take the APFT you're going to be scored on the appropriate age category on the men's side of the score sheet.

[Taxcontrol]

Arty=Combat, yet lifting 95# joes ain’t easy.

Exactly.  90 lb shells, tank tracks, or .50 M2 machine guns, wounded battle buddy... they all are damn heavy and have to be lifted repetitively while in battle.  Thus the need for a strength / lift test.