Author Topic: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters  (Read 7521 times)

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Offline ABX

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2017, 01:39:21 pm »
.

I remember in an interview a woman who ran from the concert said
something about trying to go into Hooters, but it was not safe.
I wish I could remember exactly everything she said about Hooters...
but she did say it was not safe and she kept running.


VEGAS BOMBSHELL: VIDEO SHOWS 17 AMBULANCES PULLING BODIES OUT OF HOOTERS

" Video captured night of the Oct. 1 massacre reveals LVMPD and FBI are withholding key details about what actually transpired

LAS VEGAS (INTELLIHUB) — On the night of October 1, Youtuber Benjamin Franks and his friend had just grabbed some tacos and were heading back to their hotel room at the MGM when they noticed a separate disturbance at the corner of Las Vegas Blvd and Tropicana Ave.

15-minutes later, from the leisure of his hotel room, Franks managed to capture bombshell video footage which shows a total of 17 ambulances removing human bodies from Hooters, contradicting the official story told by Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo. "

more at link

http://usdefensewatch.com/2017/10/vegas-bombshell-video-shows-17-ambulances-pulling-bodies-out-of-hooters/

Typical clickbait site. It doesn't show what the title reports. It shows what may or may not be ambulances along the road (all you can see is flashing lights). It shows no bodies being pulled out of Hooters nor even hints at that.

That site seems to post every debunked theory as fact, some completely off the wall.  Probably in the same circle of BS clickbait-mill sites that we've been seeing a lot of lately. The format is even the same, only the title is different.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2017, 02:19:16 pm »
I don't think that holds water.  You're going to get different range measurements whether the shooter is the same distance directly ahead of you, to the side, or directly behind you (the observer, who I'm assuming is not standing right next to the victim -- maybe the videos are taken from close enough that my point is moot).

I might buy the argument that if you observed large lag differences that could indicate multiple shooters firing from different (but not calculable) distances.  But I'd still be skeptical about that since I don't know the path the sound takes to get to the observer (which will probably differ with a guy firing into a crowd).

Of course, if someone could show that the difference between the time of impact and observed report was so small that it simply could not come from the known shooters location, I'd say that's pretty strong for multiple shooters.
Okay, let's try this with just one round (actually the last one in the mag, which is what he claimed to have used). Sound travels at a given speed for given temperature, pressure, and humidity. That bullet does, too. The bullet is faster than sound. The bullet from small arms, in this case a rifle, travels along a line of sight, dropping with distance from that trajectory being flat, as it slows and the effects of gravitational acceleration downward take over. The sound, incidentally, does, too (at least that which does not reverberate off of or echo off of other objects). The first you hear will have traveled most directly. Knowing the speed of the bullet, its time to arrive at any given location can be calculated. Ditto for the sound of the bullet being fired from the gun. One (sound, in this case) is slower than the other. The difference for a .223 55 grain bullet in this case was found to be a little over half a second. To get that spread, the bullet would have had to travel (while remaining supersonic) a specific distance. That distance is the range. It doesn't matter which way anyone is facing, except that the bullet is being fired toward the target. It's all simple math. The rate the bullet slows can be calculated, therefore the time lag between the arrival of the bullet and the sound of the rifle can be used to determine distance.

The fellow in the video claims that by analyzing the sound track from videos, he can filter out other sounds and measure the time lag between the last bullet impact from a magazine and the last rifle report from that weapon, and that the differences were significant, with one set falling in the 0.5+ (and change) second range, the others around .275 seconds (iirc), and those two clusters of data indicate two shooting positions with one about 200 yards closer than the Mandalay Bay position.  That shorter radius from the center of the concert venue takes in a couple of rooftops and another feature which was present on google earth (but may be gone) which would have been good, elevated, firing positions, but could include anywhere on that circle, give or take a few feet.

We use the same principle counting seconds between the faster than sound flash of a lighting bolt and the thunderclap to get the distance to the lightning strike. The shorter the time lag between the flash and the boom, the closer the lightning hit.

In this instance, the faster object is a bullet instead of light, so the time lag will be smaller (bullets being so much slower than light), but ideally measurable, and because the ballistics of the bullet and sound are predictable, the distance traveled by the bullet will coincide with a specific time lag between the arrival of the bullet and the sound of the gun being fired, just as I'd see the splashes of rounds hitting the Potomac, fired from the fixed mounts at Dahlgren miles away, and hear the sound of the guns firing a few seconds later.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2017, 02:28:35 pm »
That's an understatement. His 'Natural News' pushes crap almost worse than Infowars. He recently was pushing Bitter Almond for cancer treatment- aka, hydrogen cyanide. He is right up there with Food Babe and Mercola in terms of pushing the worst of the worst pseudoscience- crossing the dangerous line.
The substance also present in those seeds is "B17" (although not actually a B vitamin) also known as laetrile, rumored to be a cancer cure. A better source is apricot pits, which have less cyanide. Benzaldehyde and amygdalin are also present. The treatment is controversial as to efficacy. Keep in mind that chemotherapy is full of toxic substances, designed to kill the cancer before the patient, but sometimes it seems to run neck and neck in that department. http://healthimpactnews.com/2017/laetrile-from-apricot-seeds-the-cancer-cure-suppressed-by-big-pharma/  I'm skeptical of cancer treatments myself, because there is a huge profit motive in approved treatments that would preclude approval of alternatives which were effective, could not be patented (natural substance), and would undermine the market for more expensive cures. There is no shortage of charlatans on both sides of that line, imho.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Applewood

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2017, 03:12:10 pm »
What is it going to take to get a good old-fashioned ZOT going around here, anyway?

No.  No zot.  Many of us are refugees from TOS where the zot was used on members the powers that be didn't like.  A timeout maybe when the discussion gets out of hand, but no zotting.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2017, 03:18:25 pm »
You want to be zotted?   :shrug:
Not me! The original poster has been stirring up trouble ever since they got here. First with the Democrat talking points, and now the hoaxes. I'm generally pretty patient with posters but I know a troll when I see one.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2017, 03:25:43 pm »
Not me! The original poster has been stirring up trouble ever since they got here. First with the Democrat talking points, and now the hoaxes. I'm generally pretty patient with posters but I know a troll when I see one.
Did you watch the video? I could see a bunch of ambulances outside Hooters in the video. The video speculated a little, but was pretty much raw data, and the ambulances came and went from the front of the place. What's the hoax?
On the television in the background, it was reported that there were "multiple shooters in multiple locations"--that doesn't mean the TV folks got it right, but that's what they said.
Again, What's the hoax?

It does not mean there isn't an alternate explanation (like using the area for EMS staging, or picking up people who had been injured but made it that far), but the ambulances were there.

If raw data is discarded as "conspiracy theory" and "kook bait", one thing is certain: The officials can tell you anything and you won't know any different. If what they are telling you is right, the data will confirm that.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2017, 03:30:04 pm »
Not me! The original poster has been stirring up trouble ever since they got here. First with the Democrat talking points, and now the hoaxes. I'm generally pretty patient with posters but I know a troll when I see one.

Oh, good.  Had me going there.

I think that because of the responses on this thread a healthy amount of skepticism has been raised. I don't see it as trolling behavior, but I agree that the source and "story" appear to be less than reliable.

Offline Applewood

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2017, 03:30:32 pm »
Typical clickbait site. It doesn't show what the title reports. It shows what may or may not be ambulances along the road (all you can see is flashing lights). It shows no bodies being pulled out of Hooters nor even hints at that.

That site seems to post every debunked theory as fact, some completely off the wall.  Probably in the same circle of BS clickbait-mill sites that we've been seeing a lot of lately. The format is even the same, only the title is different.


That's symptomatic of clickbait sites.  They tell you at first they have a "bombshell," but the "bombshell" turns out to be a dud..  The title never matches the body of the report and you can't trust the audio, video or photograph that purports to back up their claims.  Everything they claim is either untrue or there could be alternative explanations.  They can take a few truths, add a few embellishments and PRESTO!  Another conspiracy theory. 

Offline Applewood

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2017, 03:50:23 pm »
Did you watch the video? I could see a bunch of ambulances outside Hooters in the video. The video speculated a little, but was pretty much raw data, and the ambulances came and went from the front of the place. What's the hoax?
On the television in the background, it was reported that there were "multiple shooters in multiple locations"--that doesn't mean the TV folks got it right, but that's what they said.
Again, What's the hoax?

It does not mean there isn't an alternate explanation (like using the area for EMS staging, or picking up people who had been injured but made it that far), but the ambulances were there.

If raw data is discarded as "conspiracy theory" and "kook bait", one thing is certain: The officials can tell you anything and you won't know any different. If what they are telling you is right, the data will confirm that.

I'm glad you could tell those flashing lights were ambulances because I couldn't.  And nowhere could I see any "bodies" being taken out of Hooters and placed in these alleged ambulances.  The video allegedly was shot from a hotel window too far away to tell just what was going on.  Something from ground level might have been clearer, but this video does not back up what is claimed. 

I'm going with the EMS staging area theory.  Much of Las Vegas Boulevard and side streets were blocked off specifically for emergency vehicles and equipment.  So of course, you are going to see flashing lights in front of Hooters, Bellagio and other locations near Mandalay Bay.  Doesn't mean there were shootings at those other locations.

And you are correct that right after the shooting at Mandalay Bay, there were numerous reports on tv of possible multiple shooters at multiple locations.  But I believe that most channels reported it as rumor that was not immediately confirmed.  So the tv in the background doesn't prove anything.  I'm going to guess that the reason the ambulances weren't moved into Mandalay Bay immediately was because law enforcement was looking for those multiple shooters and/or the possibility of a bomb or bombs.  They had to make sure the area was safe before moving in rescuers.

Offline bolobaby

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2017, 03:53:32 pm »
What a steaming pile.

Ignorant people, who have never heard of "staging areas," especially staging areas *well out of the way of danger during an active shooter situation*, putting their ignorance on full display.

The only thing this video proves is <Removed by Mod>.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 04:00:31 pm by Mod1 »
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Offline ABX

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2017, 04:00:48 pm »
What a steaming pile.

Ignorant people, who have never heard of "staging areas," especially staging areas *well out of the way of danger during an active shooter situation*, putting their ignorance on full display.

The only thing this video proves is that the poster is a world-class moron.

At least members here are rational and inclined to test the validity of the claim instead of blindly believing it, unlike certain other unnamed sites. Let the BS be posted sometimes, Briefers will debunk it.

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2017, 04:50:33 pm »
Okay, let's try this with just one round (actually the last one in the mag, which is what he claimed to have used). Sound travels at a given speed for given temperature, pressure, and humidity. That bullet does, too. The bullet is faster than sound. The bullet from small arms, in this case a rifle, travels along a line of sight, dropping with distance from that trajectory being flat, as it slows and the effects of gravitational acceleration downward take over. The sound, incidentally, does, too (at least that which does not reverberate off of or echo off of other objects). The first you hear will have traveled most directly. Knowing the speed of the bullet, its time to arrive at any given location can be calculated. Ditto for the sound of the bullet being fired from the gun. One (sound, in this case) is slower than the other. The difference for a .223 55 grain bullet in this case was found to be a little over half a second. To get that spread, the bullet would have had to travel (while remaining supersonic) a specific distance. That distance is the range. It doesn't matter which way anyone is facing, except that the bullet is being fired toward the target. It's all simple math. The rate the bullet slows can be calculated, therefore the time lag between the arrival of the bullet and the sound of the rifle can be used to determine distance.

The fellow in the video claims that by analyzing the sound track from videos, he can filter out other sounds and measure the time lag between the last bullet impact from a magazine and the last rifle report from that weapon, and that the differences were significant, with one set falling in the 0.5+ (and change) second range, the others around .275 seconds (iirc), and those two clusters of data indicate two shooting positions with one about 200 yards closer than the Mandalay Bay position.  That shorter radius from the center of the concert venue takes in a couple of rooftops and another feature which was present on google earth (but may be gone) which would have been good, elevated, firing positions, but could include anywhere on that circle, give or take a few feet.

We use the same principle counting seconds between the faster than sound flash of a lighting bolt and the thunderclap to get the distance to the lightning strike. The shorter the time lag between the flash and the boom, the closer the lightning hit.

In this instance, the faster object is a bullet instead of light, so the time lag will be smaller (bullets being so much slower than light), but ideally measurable, and because the ballistics of the bullet and sound are predictable, the distance traveled by the bullet will coincide with a specific time lag between the arrival of the bullet and the sound of the gun being fired, just as I'd see the splashes of rounds hitting the Potomac, fired from the fixed mounts at Dahlgren miles away, and hear the sound of the guns firing a few seconds later.

I understand the math in the simple case where victim and observer are in the same place.

Now, say the shooter is 1200 ft north of the victim, and the observer is 600 ft south of the victim, and the observer does not know the relative locations.  The observer will hear the shot after the sound has travelled 1800 ft.

Now, say the shooter is 1200 ft north of the victim, and the observer is 600 ft north of the victim, and the observer does not know the relative locations.  The observer will hear the shot after the sound has travelled 600 ft.

Same range, very different observations.  I'm a little slow today, but I don't think you can determine anything at all about distance once you add the remote observer (even if the relative positions are known).

You should, however, be able to be reasonably confident of multiple shooters if you had two observations in a very short time frame and they varied substantially.



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Offline Applewood

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2017, 05:21:04 pm »
Let me throw a little gasoline on the fire here.

I read somewhere the other day that the reason for the vacuum is because the shooter worked for the CIA.  Not saying anything as to the validity of that just saying I read it and report it here only because it supports what you are saying about a vacuum creating distrust and all manner of theories!

Edit to add: Turns out it's all over the place!  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Did+Shooter+in+Vegas+work+for+the+CIA%3F&atb=v77-4_q&ia=web

I was just reading something today about the release of the JFK assassination documents.  Evidently, there are conspiracy theorists who are hoping these documents will prove their theory that Oswald was an agent of the CIA sent to kill JFK.  Apparently, the CIA is a favorite target of conspiracy theorists.  Poor guys are blamed for everything.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2017, 05:33:08 pm »
I was just reading something today about the release of the JFK assassination documents.  Evidently, there are conspiracy theorists who are hoping these documents will prove their theory that Oswald was an agent of the CIA sent to kill JFK.  Apparently, the CIA is a favorite target of conspiracy theorists.  Poor guys are blamed for everything.

I don't have any idea as to how many here were alive and paying attention when the Kennedy assignation took place but I certainly was and the reporting of that event very much reminds me of the reporting of the event in Las Vegas recently.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 05:33:59 pm by Bigun »
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Offline bolobaby

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2017, 05:50:24 pm »
It does not mean there isn't an alternate explanation (like using the area for EMS staging, or picking up people who had been injured but made it that far), but the ambulances were there.

Newsflash: the "bodies being removed from Hooters" *is* the alternate explanation. And maybe we'd more accurate to say the "alternate reality" explanation.

The PRIMARY explanation is an EMS staging area.

Oh, and for the mod's benefit, when I said the poster of the video is a world class moron, I mean the poster who made the conspiracy vid and posted it to the site that was linked here.
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Offline Mod1

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2017, 06:18:35 pm »
Newsflash: the "bodies being removed from Hooters" *is* the alternate explanation. And maybe we'd more accurate to say the "alternate reality" explanation.

The PRIMARY explanation is an EMS staging area.

Oh, and for the mod's benefit, when I said the poster of the video is a world class moron, I mean the poster who made the conspiracy vid and posted it to the site that was linked here.

That did seem out of character for you.  Thank you for explaining.

Offline KingsX

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2017, 06:24:12 pm »
.


This may or may not be the same woman running from the concert that I heard interviewed but her story is similar.


" We ran as fast as we could and we made it to the tropicana and then people started yelling there is a shooter in the tropicana. Then we ran to hooters and they said there was a shooter in hooters. It was absolute chaos. And then we finally made it into a little diner where an off-duty policeman was in there and he said we’re putting this on lockdown and we stacked all the tables and chairs up and covered the windows and just basically were sitting ducks waiting until we could leave. My sister, she is an emergency nurse, she stayed behind to help those who were injured. "

https://grabien.com/file.php?id=264811

.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:25:01 pm by KingsX »

Offline Applewood

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2017, 06:27:12 pm »
I don't have any idea as to how many here were alive and paying attention when the Kennedy assignation took place but I certainly was and the reporting of that event very much reminds me of the reporting of the event in Las Vegas recently.

I was just a young pup when JFK was assassinated, but back then we trusted Cronkite and others like him to give us the truth. We didn't have the Internet or any other tool to verify what we were being told.  The commie Democrats now realize that everything they say or do can be much more easily verified or refuted today. So their solution is to tell us nothing at all.

So since we are being deprived of the truth, we will seek it elsewhere.I suppose that's why the conspiracy websites are flourishing. But honestly, I'm tired of sifting through bogus information looking for truth.  I wish we could return to the days of thorough, unbiased reporting.  What we have now just gives me a headache.

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2017, 06:31:51 pm »
I was just a young pup when JFK was assassinated, but back then we trusted Cronkite and others like him to give us the truth. We didn't have the Internet or any other tool to verify what we were being told.  The commie Democrats now realize that everything they say or do can be much more easily verified or refuted today. So their solution is to tell us nothing at all.

So since we are being deprived of the truth, we will seek it elsewhere.I suppose that's why the conspiracy websites are flourishing. But honestly, I'm tired of sifting through bogus information looking for truth.  I wish we could return to the days of thorough, unbiased reporting.  What we have now just gives me a headache.

Walter Cronkite was a flat out communist and a congenital liar! He trained his protégé, Dan Rather well in the art of propaganda!
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Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2017, 07:00:13 pm »
I listen to a little Michael Savage when I go to bed – for entertainment purposes only because I think the guys a screwball - but its the station I like to wake up to.    Nightly he uses his radio pulpit to preach multiple shooter conspiracies among other conspiracies. Is it any wonder so many people fall for this garbage and will go to their graves believing it?   
And they can’t even ask the most basic questions before falling for it. Where are the witnesses to these other shootings or shooters?   And no, hearing shots that seem to come from different directions is explainable as sound bounced around the canyon of buildings. Where are the shell cases? The broken glass, the blood, the inpatient paperwork at the hospitals that would say where their injury occurred.     
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2017, 07:12:01 pm »
Methinks the Mandalay Bay shooting is going to rival the Kennedy assassination for "conspiracy theories" for decades to come.

The problem with the Las Vegas shooting is that there isn't enough "there" there. Unless there is information in the hands of the authorities that they haven't revealed, the shooter left essentially nothing behind which could explain his motivations. A case 180 degrees removed from someone like the Unabomber, and his manifesto.

But let's apply Occam's razor:
I don't think "the authorities" know much more about Stephen Paddock than we do.

His girlfriend may know something; perhaps the talkative brother as well. But that's "hearsay" evidence. Paddock kept his dark thoughts and plans to himself.

Some questions I'd like answered:
1. Of the 12 rifles found in the hotel room that had been fitted with bump stocks, how many of them had been fired?
2. How many spent cartridges were found in the hotel room?
3. Of those found, how many from each fired rifle?
4. How many magazines were used, and what was the capacity of each?
5. Do all the bullets recovered from the concert area match those rifles from the hotel room (to the extent that such comparisons are possible)?

Surely the investigators have compiled such info by now.
Has anyone asked these questions publicly of them?

Offline ABX

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2017, 07:33:00 pm »
Methinks the Mandalay Bay shooting is going to rival the Kennedy assassination for "conspiracy theories" for decades to come.

The problem with the Las Vegas shooting is that there isn't enough "there" there. Unless there is information in the hands of the authorities that they haven't revealed, the shooter left essentially nothing behind which could explain his motivations. A case 180 degrees removed from someone like the Unabomber, and his manifesto.

But let's apply Occam's razor:
I don't think "the authorities" know much more about Stephen Paddock than we do.

His girlfriend may know something; perhaps the talkative brother as well. But that's "hearsay" evidence. Paddock kept his dark thoughts and plans to himself.

Some questions I'd like answered:
1. Of the 12 rifles found in the hotel room that had been fitted with bump stocks, how many of them had been fired?
2. How many spent cartridges were found in the hotel room?
3. Of those found, how many from each fired rifle?
4. How many magazines were used, and what was the capacity of each?
5. Do all the bullets recovered from the concert area match those rifles from the hotel room (to the extent that such comparisons are possible)?

Surely the investigators have compiled such info by now.
Has anyone asked these questions publicly of them?

I have a feeling this may be much worse because this happened in the era of social media and the internet where theories fly around to more people as fast as the speed of light. Culturally people are also more inclined to latch on to anything. For example, on FR, I've seen two threads on a video someone discovered of some FBI agents walking through a hotel room with guns drawn, the story is it is from the shooting and they were getting the security tapes. Everyone on FR believed it and thought it was proof of a cover up. On a Reddit thread, it was shot down in a few minutes when it was pointed out that it was a clip from one of the Oceans movies. But people on FR (and FB as well) speak towards it now as if it was real.

Plus, now, every CT is a publisher. When Kennedy happened, you had a few kooks here and there with offset printers in their garage, so their individual theories didn't go far. Now, anyone can publish a theory in an instant, and if they make it sound believable, reasonable people will believe it and pass it along- even if it was totally made up.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2017, 07:54:58 pm »
I'm glad you could tell those flashing lights were ambulances because I couldn't.  And nowhere could I see any "bodies" being taken out of Hooters and placed in these alleged ambulances.  The video allegedly was shot from a hotel window too far away to tell just what was going on.  Something from ground level might have been clearer, but this video does not back up what is claimed. 

I'm going with the EMS staging area theory.  Much of Las Vegas Boulevard and side streets were blocked off specifically for emergency vehicles and equipment.  So of course, you are going to see flashing lights in front of Hooters, Bellagio and other locations near Mandalay Bay.  Doesn't mean there were shootings at those other locations.

And you are correct that right after the shooting at Mandalay Bay, there were numerous reports on tv of possible multiple shooters at multiple locations.  But I believe that most channels reported it as rumor that was not immediately confirmed.  So the tv in the background doesn't prove anything.  I'm going to guess that the reason the ambulances weren't moved into Mandalay Bay immediately was because law enforcement was looking for those multiple shooters and/or the possibility of a bomb or bombs.  They had to make sure the area was safe before moving in rescuers.
Why did I post links? So people could view the videos themselves. Apparently no one has bothered.

If you view full screen, and look at the vehicle traffic going by, and it's pretty easy to tell the shape of one of these or one of these from one of these
While used ambulances are a favorite of tradesmen, I doubt there are 17 plumbers responding to clogged toilets with lights and sirens, especially since every jurisdiction I have lived in has required the removal of the red and blue flashers from nonemergency vehicles. 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2017, 08:10:44 pm »
I understand the math in the simple case where victim and observer are in the same place.

Now, say the shooter is 1200 ft north of the victim, and the observer is 600 ft south of the victim, and the observer does not know the relative locations.  The observer will hear the shot after the sound has travelled 1800 ft.

Now, say the shooter is 1200 ft north of the victim, and the observer is 600 ft north of the victim, and the observer does not know the relative locations.  The observer will hear the shot after the sound has travelled 600 ft.

Same range, very different observations.  I'm a little slow today, but I don't think you can determine anything at all about distance once you add the remote observer (even if the relative positions are known).

You should, however, be able to be reasonably confident of multiple shooters if you had two observations in a very short time frame and they varied substantially.
Where did you get a remote observer?

We're talking about analysis of the audio tracks from the videos taken by the people in the crowd.
The "observer" is their cell phone or camera. In their hand. Where the bullets were landing.

 It would be a lot easier to rationally discuss material with people who did even the very basic research of watching the video so they know what they were talking about.

I provided several video links because they were not loaded up with "conspiracy theory" from some clickbait site as a rule, looking for either first hand accounts, raw data, or rational analysis. Maybe the clickbait videos had some information, but I wanted to avoid commentary and get as close to raw data as possible.
If no one bothers to watch them, and learn what they are talking about, well, I guess we can't have an informed discussion.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline ABX

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Re: Vegas bombshell: Video shows 17 ambulances pulling bodies out of Hooters
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2017, 08:17:01 pm »
Why did I post links? So people could view the videos themselves. Apparently no one has bothered.

If you view full screen, and look at the vehicle traffic going by, and it's pretty easy to tell the shape of one of these or one of these from one of these
While used ambulances are a favorite of tradesmen, I doubt there are 17 plumbers responding to clogged toilets with lights and sirens, especially since every jurisdiction I have lived in has required the removal of the red and blue flashers from nonemergency vehicles.

To be fair, based on the shape it also could have been one of these.



or one of these...



or one of these....