Judge tosses $417M award against Johnson& Johnson

[Applewood]

@stephen50right

There was an attorney in Pittsburgh whose only client apparently was himself.  He would sue anyone he thought wronged him.  If a judge would throw out his lawsuit, this attorney would then sue the judge.  Judges were afraid of him.  He could tie them up in lawsuits for years, costing them huge amounts of money.  Once he sued a dentist (a client of the firm I was working for at the time) because the root canal performed on him was painful.  Well, I've never had a root canal, but even I know from those who have had it done that is not a pleasant experience.  The case was obviously frivolous, but no judge would dare toss it out.  Haven't heard anything about him lately.  If he is still alive, he has to be far up in years.

This attorney is the extreme.  Most litigators won't take a case unless it has merit, and even then, they will try to settle rather than go to trial.  If a client has been injured, the attorney will try to get only what is needed for the client's living expenses and in cases where a client may never be able to work again, financial security.  A reputable attorney will explain that a legal action is not intended to make the client wealthy. 

By the way, those attorneys whose ads you see are plaintiffs' attorneys.  They advertise heavily because unless they have a winning track record and a high volume of cases, they don't make any money. Usually, they take cases on a contingent fee -- that is, whether or not they get paid depends on whether or not they are successful in getting money for their clients.  If the clients lose, the firm gets nothing.  The fee is a percentage of whatever the amount of money received and the maximum is dictated by state law.  In Pennsylvania, the max is 40%, but most firms will take 33-1/3% or less.  In negotiating a settlement or deciding on a dollar figure to sue for, the lawyer's fee is included.  Contingent fee arrangements allow the plaintiffs to retain counsel without going broke.  if they had to pay an attorney a straight hourly fee, they would be ruined.

As I admitted earlier, there are plenty of bad apples in the legal profession, but most attorneys are reputable.  They perform a valuable service.  Sure, you can file suit pro se -- that is, without an attorney.  But the law is complicated and procedures in various jurisdictions are daunting.  If you want to sue or if you are sued, you need a lawyer to navigate through the rough seas.  Otherwise, you are likely to go down in flames.  And as was pointed out earlier, not all lawyers are litigators.  They work in other aspects of the law -- corporations and businesses (set up, dissolution, compliance with regulations, mergers and acquisitions, etc.), real estate, estates and trusts, intellectual property (patents, trademarks, copyrights) and so forth. You might be able to go through life without needing an attorney, but chances are if you don't want to muck things up, you will be better off having one.  Would you refrain from going to a doctor just because there are some bad doctors out there?  Same with a lawyer.

[Silver Pines]

Honestly, I've heard for years that there *may* be a link between talc and ovarian cancer.  I sympathize with the woman; it's a terrible illness to have.  But the possible danger of using talc in that area of the body is why Summer's Eve has long advertised their talc-free powder.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Google the images of her burns. The jury decided the sum, and it was based on two days' savings that McDonalds had by keeping their coffee at 190 or above. The woman burned just wanted her medical bills taken care of.

It would have been more productive if she had used the money to enter a mental institution on how to handle hot liquids.  After all, she could very well be burned once again with her mental capacity on spilling hot coffee on her.  Next time, it could very well be grease which causes much more severe injury as it sticks around cooking the flesh instead of a flash burn.

[goodwithagun]

It would have been more productive if she had used the money to enter a mental institution on how to handle hot liquids.  After all, she could very well be burned once again with her mental capacity on spilling hot coffee on her.  Next time, it could very well be grease which causes much more severe injury as it sticks around cooking the flesh instead of a flash burn.

Why would she try drinking grease? She had no history of mental illness and in fact, based on her interviews, sounds very well educated and well read. All she wanted was MD to cover her hospital costs, which were high due to all of the skin grafts that she had to have.

[stephen50right]

@stephen50right

There was an attorney in Pittsburgh whose only client apparently was himself.  He would sue anyone he thought wronged him.  If a judge would throw out his lawsuit, this attorney would then sue the judge.  Judges were afraid of him.  He could tie them up in lawsuits for years, costing them huge amounts of money.  Once he sued a dentist (a client of the firm I was working for at the time) because the root canal performed on him was painful.  Well, I've never had a root canal, but even I know from those who have had it done that is not a pleasant experience.  The case was obviously frivolous, but no judge would dare toss it out.  Haven't heard anything about him lately.  If he is still alive, he has to be far up in years.

This attorney is the extreme.  Most litigators won't take a case unless it has merit, and even then, they will try to settle rather than go to trial.  If a client has been injured, the attorney will try to get only what is needed for the client's living expenses and in cases where a client may never be able to work again, financial security.  A reputable attorney will explain that a legal action is not intended to make the client wealthy. 

By the way, those attorneys whose ads you see are plaintiffs' attorneys.  They advertise heavily because unless they have a winning track record and a high volume of cases, they don't make any money. Usually, they take cases on a contingent fee -- that is, whether or not they get paid depends on whether or not they are successful in getting money for their clients.  If the clients lose, the firm gets nothing.  The fee is a percentage of whatever the amount of money received and the maximum is dictated by state law.  In Pennsylvania, the max is 40%, but most firms will take 33-1/3% or less.  In negotiating a settlement or deciding on a dollar figure to sue for, the lawyer's fee is included.  Contingent fee arrangements allow the plaintiffs to retain counsel without going broke.  if they had to pay an attorney a straight hourly fee, they would be ruined.

As I admitted earlier, there are plenty of bad apples in the legal profession, but most attorneys are reputable.  They perform a valuable service.  Sure, you can file suit pro se -- that is, without an attorney.  But the law is complicated and procedures in various jurisdictions are daunting.  If you want to sue or if you are sued, you need a lawyer to navigate through the rough seas.  Otherwise, you are likely to go down in flames.  And as was pointed out earlier, not all lawyers are litigators.  They work in other aspects of the law -- corporations and businesses (set up, dissolution, compliance with regulations, mergers and acquisitions, etc.), real estate, estates and trusts, intellectual property (patents, trademarks, copyrights) and so forth. You might be able to go through life without needing an attorney, but chances are if you don't want to muck things up, you will be better off having one.  Would you refrain from going to a doctor just because there are some bad doctors out there?  Same with a lawyer.

Thanks for the reply.

I am not anti-lawyer...just anti-scumbag lawyer. And in my view the vast majority if not all of those attorneys seen in those large ads in the phone book and with the constant ads on TV are scumbags.

Business corporate type lawyers are no problem with me. The world of business can be complex with different government rules and regulations, etc, etc, and a good lawyer is helpful in that regard. Basically they save you the time of trying to learn all that stuff yourself. I've got no problem either with most criminal lawyers, whose goal is to help their clients stay out of prison. It is judges who are the dopes who don't hand out proper sentences to obviously dangerous criminals, it is not the lawyers fault in that regard.

I understand your points, and I like your lucid explanations...but sorry to say I think you are being a bit simplistic. This isn't like twenty years ago. Generating a plaintiff's case is easy these days with computer software generating the paperwork, that can be done relatively quickly...and for the court filing fees, bingo, a trial lawyer has very little expense, and created himself a live lottery ticket that can cause the defendant a seemingly never ending nightmare of legal expenses to defend the case. This whole scenario just isn't logically right to do in a healthy society.

What you may not realize that would change under my plan, is that defense lawyers who hardly ever take a civil case on a contingency basis, but now they would know the opposing lawyer with deep pockets would be liable and there is possibly good money to be made, it would form a new process in the legal system whereby many civil defense lawyers, would now take cases on a contingency basis. So now many defendants in civil cases wouldn't automatically get soaked every time they are sued. Basically for the most part, the two lawyers would be fighting it out with their time and expense to see who wins. Makes perfect sense for a fair and balanced legal system.

[DemolitionMan]

Look in any Yellow Pages phone book. The category by far with the most big ads, page after page of them, is lawyers.

Daytime TV...perhaps around 1 out of 4 ads is for lawyers wishing to attract clients so they can extort more money from the legal system from defendants with deep pockets.

Doesn't our society see something inherently wrong with all this? Society is rewarding parasites rather than producers.

 :thumbsup3:

[DemolitionMan]

Honestly, I've heard for years that there *may* be a link between talc and ovarian cancer.  I sympathize with the woman; it's a terrible illness to have.  But the possible danger of using talc in that area of the body is why Summer's Eve has long advertised their talc-free powder.

Excellent Point. Do people read labels anymore or take their physicians advice?

[DemolitionMan]

It would have been more productive if she had used the money to enter a mental institution on how to handle hot liquids.  After all, she could very well be burned once again with her mental capacity on spilling hot coffee on her.  Next time, it could very well be grease which causes much more severe injury as it sticks around cooking the flesh instead of a flash burn.

Then people should stop going to Starbucks because that is close to the temperature they brew their coffee.

[Gefn]

Excellent Point. Do people read labels anymore or take their physicians advice?

Do women still use douches?i don't see them in drug stores anymore.

I don't think people read drug labels. I think we are getting dumber, personally.

[DemolitionMan]

Do women still use douches?i don't see them in drug stores anymore.

Before I do anything such as taking a medication  I always consult the pharmacist or a physician about the product in the health department. Or ask how hot the coffee is at a restaurant.

[DemolitionMan]

Before I do anything such as taking a medication  I always consult the pharmacist or a physician about the product in the health department. Or ask how hot the coffee is at a restaurant.

I will make it the mission today to ask Starbucks how hot their coffee is brewed.

[Gefn]

I will make it the mission today to ask Starbucks how hot their coffee is brewed.

I like Dunkin Donuts coffee better. :)

[DemolitionMan]

I like Dunkin Donuts coffee better. :)

I will ask one of their branches how hot they brew their coffee. I like Dunkin Donuts too.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Why would she try drinking grease? She had no history of mental illness and in fact, based on her interviews, sounds very well educated and well read. All she wanted was MD to cover her hospital costs, which were high due to all of the skin grafts that she had to have.

Who said she would be drinking grease?  She obviously does not know how to handle hot liquids, unlike the vast majority of people, which is why she needs the money to be well spent on psychological help.

[DemolitionMan]

I will ask one of their branches how hot they brew their coffee. I like Dunkin Donuts too.

I drove to three Starbucks and a Dunkin Donuts in a 20 mile radius.Two Starbucks coffee stores brew at 190 degrees. One Starbucks store had their coffee brew at 195 degrees and Dunkin Donuts had their coffee brew at 185 degrees. The average was 190 degrees.

I am not saying that all lawyers are bad. It is the bad ones that are giving the good attorneys a bad reputation.

[goodwithagun]

Who said she would be drinking grease?  She obviously does not know how to handle hot liquids, unlike the vast majority of people, which is why she needs the money to be well spent on psychological help.

Rea search the case a little bit and you might have a change of mind.

[goodwithagun]

Before I do anything such as taking a medication  I always consult the pharmacist or a physician about the product in the health department. Or ask how hot the coffee is at a restaurant.

So? Every drug that's been pulled from the market has first been approved by the FDA. Google how many people die each year from Tylenol. Just sayin'.

[goodwithagun]

Who said she would be drinking grease?  She obviously does not know how to handle hot liquids, unlike the vast majority of people, which is why she needs the money to be well spent on psychological help.

You compare her to drinking grease, not me.

[DemolitionMan]

Rea search the case a little bit and you might have a change of mind.

Usually these days they have cup holders in cars or had requested one from the restaurant.

[DemolitionMan]

So? Every drug that's been pulled from the market has first been approved by the FDA. Google how many people die each year from Tylenol. Just sayin'.

Every bottle has a piece of paper telling the customer how to take the pill. If you do not sure how to use the drug ask the pharmacist or a physician.

[goodwithagun]

Usually these days they have cup holders in cars or had requested one from the restaurant.

Well this was in the early 90s and she was in a late 80s Probe. There were no such things a cup holders at the time.

[DemolitionMan]

Well this was in the early 90s and she was in a late 80s Probe. There were no such things a cup holders at the time.

They had cup holders back then. The cup holder as we know it today came to us in 1983 alongside another innovation: the mini van. The first cup holders “sunk into the plastic of the dashboard” were installed in the Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager.''The later development of the drive-through restaurant encouraged the development of better holders for drinks, and a more fast-paced life and longer commute times made many drivers desire to drink their morning coffee in the car on the way to work. The 1960s saw coffee cups with wide, flat, rubberised bases being sold, which would keep them steady on the dash or console. A little later, aftermarket cup holders began to be sold. These often clipped onto the door windows, although other designs wedge in between the front seats and the center console.Built-in cup holders began to be available in the 1920s.[citation needed] Minivans were pioneers in their availability, and they still offer the greatest number of them. Over time, automotive cup holders have become larger and more sophisticated, so that they can hold a variety of different cup sizes securely. Many offer spring-loaded holders that clasp the cup securely, no matter how large or small. The development of ever-larger cups by fast-food chains and convenience stores in the United States has proven a challenge to automotive designers; many fast-food chains now offer 44 fl.oz. (1.3 L) drinks. The automobile cup-holder has also driven the development of "car cups" designed to fit within most cars' cup holders; these have a narrower base but flare outward after a short cylindrical distance.

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/03/08/when-did-cars-get-cup-holders/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_holder

[goodwithagun]

Every bottle has a piece of paper telling the customer how to take the pill. If you do not sure how to use the drug ask the pharmacist or a physician.

Yep. Again, Google how many people die from Tylenol. My new favorite drug commercial is for new insomnia drug. It's most common side effect is daytime tiredness or sleepiness. Lol! In addition to the other horrific things the drug causes, the patient still feels the same the next day! This med is right up there with the depression drugs that can cause worsening depression or thoughts of suicide. Really?

[goodwithagun]

They had cup holders back then. The cup holder as we know it today came to us in 1983 alongside another innovation: the mini van. The first cup holders “sunk into the plastic of the dashboard” were installed in the Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager.''The later development of the drive-through restaurant encouraged the development of better holders for drinks, and a more fast-paced life and longer commute times made many drivers desire to drink their morning coffee in the car on the way to work. The 1960s saw coffee cups with wide, flat, rubberised bases being sold, which would keep them steady on the dash or console. A little later, aftermarket cup holders began to be sold. These often clipped onto the door windows, although other designs wedge in between the front seats and the center console.Built-in cup holders began to be available in the 1920s.[citation needed] Minivans were pioneers in their availability, and they still offer the greatest number of them. Over time, automotive cup holders have become larger and more sophisticated, so that they can hold a variety of different cup sizes securely. Many offer spring-loaded holders that clasp the cup securely, no matter how large or small. The development of ever-larger cups by fast-food chains and convenience stores in the United States has proven a challenge to automotive designers; many fast-food chains now offer 44 fl.oz. (1.3 L) drinks. The automobile cup-holder has also driven the development of "car cups" designed to fit within most cars' cup holders; these have a narrower base but flare outward after a short cylindrical distance.

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/03/08/when-did-cars-get-cup-holders/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_holder

Very few moms drove minivans in this period, and I was entering high school when this happened.

[DemolitionMan]

Yep. Again, Google how many people die from Tylenol. My new favorite drug commercial is for new insomnia drug. It's most common side effect is daytime tiredness or sleepiness. Lol! In addition to the other horrific things the drug causes, the patient still feels the same the next day! This med is right up there with the depression drugs that can cause worsening depression or thoughts of suicide. Really?

If you have suicidal thoughts or have a reaction stop. When I have a reaction to a medication I stop or call 911 or visit your local hospital. Its common sense.