Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services

[Jazzhead]

Then your reading comprehension sucks.

Jazz has in the past advocated that abortion is a "right" and the made the ridiculous claim it's covered under the 14th Amendment.

Jazzy is very much saying that abortion is a right just a few posts above here.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,285911.msg1484681.html#msg1484681

and here as well:

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,285911.msg1484771.html#msg1484771


Instead of knee jerk reacting because of who is saying something...how about actually taking the time to read what people are saying before you claim that no one on this discussion is advocating for something when it's very clear the opposite is true

Might save you some future embarrassment..

Txradioguy, it's your reading comprehension that sucks.   Yes,  I've stated that abortion (that is, the right whether to go forward with an unplanned pregnancy) is a woman's legal right, guaranteed under the Constitution, but I've NEVER stated that "abortion is right".  RIV is correct - every participant on this thread recognizes the moral wrong that is abortion.

The issue is how to reduce the number of abortions consistent with the woman's fundamental liberty.  Obviously we disagree - some here callously dismiss the woman's dilemma as the result of "failing to keep her legs shut" and demand the state enforce their religious morality at the point of a gun (and call it feminism  ).  But there ought to be general agreement that the horrors of abortion can be minimized by actions that are perfectly Constitutional - persuasion, support for adoption, support for contraception and family planning.  Many pro-lifers do such things, and deserve applause.       

[txradioguy]

Except when it comes to forcing someone to bake a homosexual cake to celebrate perversion. Then you are all for encroachment by the state.

Except when it comes to guns, when you insist that Texas gun culture should not be 'imposed' upon you by upholding the Second Amendment.

Except when it comes to Healthcare and insurance, when our individual liberty must be eradicated to force us to purchase government-mandated and approved services or receive punishment.

Except when it comes to individual wealth, whereby like all Marxists you have decreed that they should be forced to hand over more for the privilege of being permitted to have wealth as a cost of living here.

You advocate for license and tyranny, not liberty.

You advocate for punishment by the state to impose your perversions and your demand to feel safe.

You are not interested in individual liberty except when it comes to behaviors that are anathema to liberty, morality and a civil society.

We got your number pal.

You fool no one, despite your pedantic monologues explaining your re not what everyone already clearly sees you as an advocate for.

Game. Set. Match.

[INVAR]

Shades of Baal and Marduk. Not even shades anymore - It is real and visceral.

Biblical history teaches that once a nation of God's people have abandoned Him and His Laws for their own, and once the people do what is right in their own eyes - and justify their wickedness.... such people are wiped out and destroyed by their own consequences and by the Hand of Justice from Heaven.

Then there is secular history that teaches the same thing of nations that are no longer governed by their foundational principles, having embraced genocide of segments of their own population. 

No nation that slaughters children for convenience or out of worshipping false gods escapes annihilation.

Somehow even Christians in this nation think we are immune from that inevitability, simply because they have constructed a Jesus that soothes their conscience, as if the words from scripture that state that God is the same yesterday, today and forever does not really mean what it says.

We deserve all that is coming upon us.

[roamer_1]

I'm with you 100%.  The old ways aren't always the bad ways just because some "progressive" wants to rewrite history and try to change facts in the minds of the young and impressionable.


I always love asking Liberals I know how they can support gay "marriage" and the theory of evolution at the same time...since one tends to cancel the other one out. LOL!

It is easy to point at this or that and claim injustice. But it is flatly undeniable that generally things are worse today than they were a mere generation or two ago.

Mine is the third divorce in my family EVER. And mine is the last generation that remembers when most everyone came from a two parent-household, had only four grandparents, many with a surviving grandmother living in the house with them. I remember the struggle of single parent homes -- normally widowed by war or accident - How terrible it was for them, and that has now become the norm...

The sophistry today, that claims itself so smart and so cool, is nothing but a lie - and it is destroying people by the millions (not even mentioning babies in the womb).

[txradioguy]

Txradioguy, it's your reading comprehension that sucks.   Yes,  I've stated that abortion (that is, the right whether to go forward with an unplanned pregnancy) is a woman's legal right, guaranteed under the Constitution, but I've NEVER stated that "abortion is right".  RIV is correct - every participant on this thread recognizes the moral wrong that is abortion.

The issue is how to reduce the number of abortions consistent with the woman's fundamental liberty.  Obviously we disagree - some here callously dismiss the woman's dilemma as the result of "failing to keep her legs shut" and demand the state enforce their religious morality at the point of a gun (and call it feminism  ).  But there ought to be general agreement that the horrors of abortion can be minimized by actions that are perfectly Constitutional - persuasion, support for adoption, support for contraception and family planning.  Many pro-lifers do such things, and deserve applause.     

You can't have it both ways.

You defend and advocate for abortion on demand.

You're no different than your fellow Liberals on this subject.

And no matter how you try to parse words...split hairs and otherwise try to dissemble the facts...you are and always will be Pro Abortion.  You are and always will be FOR the murder of living breathing children while they are still in the womb.

Do yourself a big favor and quit lying to us and yourself about what you are and what you stand for.

[Jazzhead]

You can't have it both ways.

You defend and advocate for abortion on demand.

You're no different than your fellow Liberals on this subject.

And no matter how you try to parse words...split hairs and otherwise try to dissemble the facts...you are and always will be Pro Abortion.  You are and always will be FOR the murder of living breathing children while they are still in the womb.

Do yourself a big favor and quit lying to us and yourself about what you are and what you stand for.

You lack the grace to apologize to RIV, but that doesn't surprise me.   As for me,  I don't give a damn what a religious zealot such as yourself thinks of me.  This isn't a theocracy, bub.  Women aren't chattal.  You can't abide that one can be pro-life and respect a woman's liberty consistent with the Constitution.  That's exactly what I am. 

[roamer_1]

No nation that slaughters children for convenience or out of worshipping false gods escapes annihilation.

Inevitably, they wind up eating their own. Mark my words. The mind that would kill a child is not that far from eating a child. And that, inevitably, is the final degradation. Tribulation will come, as it always does - the difference being the mindset of the people, whether they will persevere, or succumb, and we are not immune.

A generation ago, folks knew 'that ain't right' inherently, as a people. Now, just about anything goes. There is no truth. Justice has flown.

We deserve all that is coming upon us.

Yes we do - But then we always have. I see the same doom as you - Abaddon rising...
But I will teach repentance, and preach repentance, to the very last man.
All we need to do is turn around.

[Hoodat]

So the person CHOOSING TO DRIVE bears no responsibility for ensuring that they have enough gas to make the trip?  Really?

Ah, I left it that way intentionally, so we can now go to this... there are sometimes breakdowns, even if you have enough gas.

Your analogy makes no sense.  If your car breaks down, you fix it.  If you run out of gas, then you walk to a gas station, buy a container and gas, and get the car running again.

You certainly don't have your car towed to the chop shop simply because you run out of gas.

[Hoodat]

The leftist arguments for abortion presume that women are stupid and helpless.

It is the OPPOSITE of caring about, respecting and honoring women that leads to the leftist arguments for abortion.

And we can see them at play right here on this thread......

@musiclady

You are 100% correct, ma'am.

[Jazzhead]

Biblical history teaches that once a nation of God's people have abandoned Him and His Laws for their own, and once the people do what is right in their own eyes - and justify their wickedness.... such people are wiped out and destroyed by their own consequences and by the Hand of Justice from Heaven.

Then there is secular history that teaches the same thing of nations that are no longer governed by their foundational principles, having embraced genocide of segments of their own population. 

No nation that slaughters children for convenience or out of worshipping false gods escapes annihilation.

Somehow even Christians in this nation think we are immune from that inevitability, simply because they have constructed a Jesus that soothes their conscience, as if the words from scripture that state that God is the same yesterday, today and forever does not really mean what it says.

We deserve all that is coming upon us.

 

We're the greatest nation on earth.   We provide more assistance to the less fortunate - from our own pockets - than any nation on earth.  We recognize the fundamental liberty and the law's equal protection with respect to all our citizens - yeah, even the women you consider chattel and the homosexuals you deem perverts.    We are, as Reagan said, the shining city on the hill.   Take your zealotry elsewhere.   

[roamer_1]

Women aren't chattal.   

Yes they are. Now more than ever. In their millions, doomed to slavish existence, desperate to raise children without a man, without a mother, without a grandmother, without any succor.
Such a sad state, when good is called evil and evil is called good.

[Hoodat]

Other than the Constitution of the United States.

Now that's funny.  You have been asked countless times to pinpoint that part of the Constitution that prohibits States from formulating their own laws regarding abortion, murder, theft, etc.  And each and every time, you fail to do so.  And do you know why?  Because deep down, you know your statement about the Constitution is complete BS.

[txradioguy]

Women aren't chattal.   

And neither are unborn babies.

[INVAR]

Yes we do - But then we always have. I see the same doom as you - Abaddon rising...
But I will teach repentance, and preach repentance, to the very last man.
All we need to do is turn around.

This people hate the very idea of repentance.  Just look at the reactions you get when calling evil what it is.  This nation's heart has hardened itself against God and will do to those of us preaching the message of repentance, the very thing Jesus said would happen to us in Matthew 24.

I'm not sure the remnant is ready to endure that, but it is at our door.

Too many people in this country hate God and love evil having traded Him for the god of their imaginations.   It's not any different than the wholesale zeitgeist of those that hate this nation and it's foundations and love what is anathema to it's existence in embracing a false narrative and history they seek to fundamentally transform us from and into - by force if necessary. 

This people have done exactly what Isaiah 5:20 warned against. 

Woe to us all.

[Jazzhead]

And neither are unborn babies.

The decision whether to reproduce is the woman's, not the state.  That doesn't mean that "unborn babies" are chattel, it means that you're going to have to work at persuading moms to be to do the right thing.   You can't just demand that the state enforce your religious morality.   That's not how it works in the this country.   

[MOD3]

We're the greatest nation on earth, God-boy.   ...   Take your hatefest elsewhere.   

That will do, @Jazzhead.  Don't call other Members names like that, consider yourself warned.

Mod 3

[roamer_1]

This people hate the very idea of repentance.  Just look at the reactions you get when calling evil what it is.  This nation's heart has hardened itself against God and will do to those of us preaching the message of repentance, the very thing Jesus said would happen to us in Matthew 24.

I'm not sure the remnant is ready to endure that, but it is at our door.

Too many people in this country hate God and love evil having traded Him for the god of their imaginations.   It's not any different than the wholesale zeitgeist of those that hate this nation and it's foundations and love what is anathema to it's existence in embracing a false narrative and history they seek to fundamentally transform us from and into - by force if necessary. 

This people have done exactly what Isaiah 5:20 warned against. 

Woe to us all.

That's right. But remember the 7000. YHWH has many here that have not bent a knee to Baal.
Remember Nineveh.

It is what it is... But repentance as a nation remains an option right to the bitter end.

[Jazzhead]

That will do, @Jazzhead.  Don't call other Members names like that, consider yourself warned.

Mod 3

I edited my post, Mod3.   

[INVAR]

We're the greatest nation on earth, God-boy  ...   Take your hatefest elsewhere.... Take your zealotry elsewhere.

Not gonna happen. 

You of course are welcome to try and force me to do so, which is what you and your ilk are all about given the lip service you pay liberty.

[Hoodat]

I advocate only for one's individual liberty

You advocate against the most precious liberty of all - life itself.

protected by the Constitution against encroachment by the state.

Where can I find that part of the Constitution which prohibits States from enacting their own laws according to the will of the people of those States?  I have been waiting months on end for you to reveal it.  Yet time and time again, you make this Constitutional claim without any evidence.  If it was a one-time deal, I would excuse it.  But since you repeatedly make this baseless claim even after being challenged on it again and again and again, a person can only conclude that you are lying.

A non-viable fetus is within the woman's dominion and control.  Period.

So is a two-year-old infant.  Equally non-viable, if left on it's own, it will die.  So according to you, there is a Constitutional right for women to kill their two-year-old children.

I do not defend abortion

Actually, you do.  You continue to maintain that "abortion must remain legal" without regard to basis of law or the will of the people.

[INVAR]

It is what it is... But repentance as a nation remains an option right to the bitter end.

Someone has to tell them what the consequences for disobedience are.

And of course, when one does - look at how it is received.

Nineveh was far more accommodating to the warning of impending judgment than this nation appears to be at the moment.  But as catastrophic events unfold now, we will see whether this people will harden their hatred against God and those whom are His witnesses, or repent of what it has become.

Thus far I am not too hopeful.

[Hoodat]

I've read through this thread and no one here is saying abortion is right.

No one is saying that shoplifting is right either.  Or murder.  Or fraud.  Yet States are given the right under the Constitution of the United States of America to regulate theft, fraud, and murder.

Yet when it comes to abortion, we are to forget all that and throw the Constitution out the window.

Can we, as a group, turn our attention and energies to strategies that will make abortion unnecessary and un-PC?

Can we first reject tyranny outright?  And can we take the power of a society to form and shape itself based on the will of that society and give that power back to that society?  Because without any of that, everything else is pointless.

Can we work on how to provide the support needed by the expectant mother---both financial and long term options?

Already done.

[Hoodat]

RIV is correct - every participant on this thread recognizes the moral wrong that is abortion.

If only every participant on this thread could recognize that tyranny was also morally wrong.

The issue is how to reduce the number of abortions consistent with the woman's fundamental liberty.

No.  The issue is whether we accept tyranny as the basis of our government, or whether we choose the Constitution of the United States instead.  You have already chosen the former.  I choose the latter.

[Jazzhead]

No one is saying that shoplifting is right either.  Or murder.  Or fraud.  Yet States are given the right under the Constitution of the United States of America to regulate theft, fraud, and murder.

Yet when it comes to abortion, we are to forget all that and throw the Constitution out the window.

A woman's fundamental right trumps that of a State legislature seeking to deny it.   No state may abrogate a woman's Constitutional right of self-determination for the same reason that no state may take away the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.   Constitutional rights are just that - rights accruing to INDIVIDUALS.   Even individuals residing in states where a transient majority in the legislature prefers to take those rights away.   

Although I'm curious enough to ask -  would you be okay with the right of a state to criminalize abortion if it could also take away a Constitutional protection you favor?   Why do you advocate for a state's right to force a citizen to reproduce, but not (I presume) to give up her guns?   

[Jazzhead]

No.  The issue is whether we accept tyranny as the basis of our government, or whether we choose the Constitution of the United States instead.  You have already chosen the former.  I choose the latter.

You've got this whole "tyranny" thing ass-backwards.   For the rights of an individual to be stripped by the whim of a transient majority is tyranny.  For a transient majority to be prevented from taking our most fundamental individual rights away is the essence of our Constitution.