Author Topic: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?  (Read 390 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« on: September 27, 2017, 05:20:29 pm »
The idea on which free societies are based seems more endangered than ever.
By Jonah Goldberg
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451825/free-speech-america-right-to-be-wrong-endangered

Quote
The whole idea of a free society is based on a very simple idea that is very hard to live by:
People have the right to be wrong.

This idea has ancient roots, but it was always and everywhere a minority opinion, unpopular with
both the masses and the rulers, until relatively recently . . .

. . . You might think that the current controversy over NFL players refusing to stand for the National
Anthem, the vandalizing or removal of statues — not just of Confederate generals, but of any real
or alleged historical villains — and the P.C. firestorms erupting across American campuses aren’t
about religion, so this history doesn’t have much relevance for today.

But you would be wrong.

The religious conflicts of the past were ultimately about which values, rituals, customs, and ideas
should be imposed on everybody. Traditional religion may be receding in many parts of American
culture, but politics is taking on a decidedly religious flavor — and religion is becoming increasingly
politicized.

People are growing intolerant of any dissent from their idea of what everyone should believe. Agree
with me and you’re one of the good guys; disagree with me and you’re not just wrong, you’re my
enemy, a heretic, a traitor, a bigot. Opportunists recognize that exacerbating this polarization
redounds to their own benefit, because at least for now, doing so helps raise money, ratings, clicks,
and poll numbers.

We are a long way off from putting beliefs of the mind to the judgment of the sword, but that is the
logical destination of the path we are on, because we have lost faith in the utility of upholding the
right to be wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I only wish Mr. Goldberg had recalled Frank Chodorov (a remarkable essayist whose thought,
William F. Buckley, Jr. (who was once a Chodorov protege, at the founding of the original Inter-
collegiate Society of Individualists, long since re-named the Intercollegiate Studies Institute)
once reminded people, "turned on a single spit: all the reasons one should be suspicious of State
activity") on the subject of the right to be wrong, about which Chodorov wrote specifically in
1949:

Quote
Whenever I choose an idea and label it "right," I imply the prerogative of another to
reject that idea and label it "wrong." To invalidate his right is to invalidate mine. That is, I must
brook error if I would preserve my freedom of thought. When I presume to be in possession of
"absolute truth," and maintain that those who disagree with me not only are in error, but are
wickedly or sinfully so, I lay myself open to similar judgment; in the end, then, the "absolute
truth" becomes a matter of power to constrict thought.

If there is anything characteristic of America, and for which Americans can be thankful, it is
that it is an area in which thought has been permitted to run riot. To be sure, our history is
not free of political efforts to put limits on what people may think . . . Somehow the citadel
of thought has held firm, and the right to be wrong has added something to human dignity.


Even the President of the United States has the right to be wrong, and God knows how many
American presidents have exercised that right in my near 62 years, but we also have the
right to say he (or she, in due course) is wrong. And when a president decides someone is
not just wrong but ought to lose a job for being wrong, that goes beyond his own right to
be wrong and into very dangerous waters---waters just as dangerous as they were when
Theodore Roosevelt was stupid enough to say that criticising a president is "not only
unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Restored

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 05:47:02 pm »
It's not the question. The question is : Does American still believe in the Right to disagree with the current allowed narrative?

If Global Warming is "settled science", does that take away the people's right to disagree?
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 05:57:56 pm »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 05:59:34 pm »
It's not the question. The question is : Does American still believe in the Right to disagree with the current allowed narrative?
I thought agreeing to disagree was part of the right to be wrong. Of course, I could be wrong. ;)

If Global Warming is "settled science", does that take away the people's right to disagree?
No more than it does if global warming isn't settled science. (You probably don't need me to
remind you that global warming isn't settled science, at least among genuine scientists whose
work is unimpeded or unaffected by political considerations.)

But now we come to "the people." Who have been known every so often to consecrate, by way
of their elected representatives and even their elected presidents, laws and regulations that
contravene the right to be wrong, or the right to disagree. (I mean, to name one example,
Woodrow Wilson got elected to the White House and couldn't wait to sign the Espionage Act;
Franklin Roosevelt got elected to the White House and nobody bargained on him trying like a
damn fool to pack the Supreme Court for no reason better than that it ruled, on solid enough
constitutional ground, against a number of New Deal programs.)


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 06:01:57 pm »

I love that book, but the passage I cited from Mr. Chodorov was in an essay not in that
book but collected in . . .



. . . and, anyway, much as I love Chodorov's writings I'm more inclined toward . . .



"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 06:05:38 pm »
Albert Jay Nock had his head screwed on straight for sure!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Restored

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 06:08:13 pm »
That's why "settled science" is in quotes. But since it is "settled science", there is a  mainstream dismissal of anything who disagrees with it. My liberal brother doesn't believe we went to the moon but he believes in Global Warming as "settled science". i.e. There is no debate because you cannot disagree with science.
That same process tells us that Trump colluded with the Russians and that fact is already proven so you can't disagree.

It's not unlike 1984 where the State tells you what is true. Data is just noise. In our society, data is racist.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 06:34:50 pm »
I'm just replying to the thread title's question:

Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?

Sure it does.

It keeps re-electing Democrat Marxists and Establishment Oligarchs into high office election year after election year.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2017, 07:03:17 pm »
My liberal brother doesn't believe we went to the moon but he believes in Global Warming as "settled science". i.e. There is no debate because you cannot disagree with science.
Would I be insulting you if I suggested your brother (liberal or otherwise) has astronomy and astrology confused? ;)

That same process tells us that Trump colluded with the Russians and that fact is already proven so you can't disagree.
Well, for me, the (figurative) jury's still out on that one. I just don't know or see enough to nail it one way or
the other. Oops. That's going to get me  hauled before the "process" servers, no? ;)

It's not unlike 1984 where the State tells you what is true. Data is just noise. In our society, data is racist.
I sometimes fear that at the rate we're going someone could be accused of racism just for proving an actual
instance of actual racism no matter against whom. I still await the accusations of racism against any statistician
who marshals the data to prove (and it's there, I've seen it) that Juan Marichal and not Bob Gibson was the
outstanding righthanded pitcher of the 1960s.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 07:39:39 pm »
I'm just replying to the thread title's question:

Does America Still Believe in the Right to Be Wrong?

Sure it does.

It keeps re-electing Democrat Marxists and Establishment Oligarchs into high office election year after election year.
I guess the operative question would be "does America still believe in the right to be right, even if it isn't popular?"
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