Author Topic: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction  (Read 8752 times)

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #100 on: September 28, 2017, 10:22:18 pm »
There is a basic philosophical difference:

--Liberal, collectivists=government owns everything, "allows" people to keep only some of it

--Conservative, wealth belongs to the producers, and should only hand over a minimal amount, for defense, public safety, etc.

The idea that retirement, healthcare, is a function of government is quite recent, in keeping with soviet "cradle to grave," thinking

That's well and good, but the reality is that the government's spending must be paid for, or it will be the responsibility of future generations.  Cutting spending's a great idea, but if that can't be done the question of how to pay for it becomes front and center.   

 There is indeed a split in the conservative ranks between those who want to cut taxes to spur economic growth,  even at the risk of increasing deficits, and those who want to provide for a balanced budget.   I wouldn't drum either out of the conservative ranks, and Reagan's tax cuts certainly did create a rising tide that lifted all boats. 

Not all tax cuts have the same dynamic effect.   Raising the standard deduction or the child credit will do relatively little to spur growth in relation to the impact such cuts will have on the deficit.   Cutting the corporate tax rate to 20% or less, by contrast, will spur growth that will easily make up for the lost revenue.   All in all, Trump's plan strikes a decent enough balance, even as I'd personally have done it differently. 

The key objective now must be to demand GOP unity, so the tax cuts can be enacted in the face of universal Democratic opposition.  Trump's plan may not be perfect,  that's not the point - solidarity is.     
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #101 on: September 28, 2017, 10:25:41 pm »
Interesting, but you didn't answer my question.  What do you think of the term "Tax Expenditure?"  Does it piss you off, or does it seen to be a relevant part of the discussion?  For clarification, the term is used to describe the "cost of a cut in taxes."

Hey, I tried in good faith to answer you.  I learned long ago that you have a chip on your shoulder regarding anything I say.  It also might help if you clearly define what you're talking about.   
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Offline DB

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #102 on: September 28, 2017, 10:28:16 pm »
He doesn't know us very well, does he?  This the hazard of just walking into a forum and being the loudmouth at the end of the bar.  It took me a couple years to get to be the loudmouth.

LOL...  With a year under my belt I don't know if I'm considered a "loudmouth" or not...

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #103 on: September 28, 2017, 10:31:57 pm »
Hey, I tried in good faith to answer you.  I learned long ago that you have a chip on your shoulder regarding anything I say.  It also might help if you clearly define what you're talking about.   

It was NOT in good faith.  You gave a politician's answer and answered a question I did not ask.  Answer the one I asked, it's really very simple.  And I clarified it twice.  As for my chip, no, it's that I expect bullshit from you and am ready for it.  If you wish to call it a chip on my shoulder, knock yourself out, pal.

For clarification, the term is used to describe the "cost of a cut in taxes."

It couldn't get more clear if I bought you a pair of 7X reading glasses.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #104 on: September 28, 2017, 10:53:34 pm »
He doesn't know us very well, does he?  This the hazard of just walking into a forum and being the loudmouth at the end of the bar.  It took me a couple years to get to be the loudmouth.

The smart thing is to come in not make a lot of noise...size up your audience first.
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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #105 on: September 28, 2017, 10:56:42 pm »
The smart thing is to come in not make a lot of noise...size up your audience first.

Notice how it's my fault they won't answer.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #106 on: September 28, 2017, 10:57:58 pm »
Notice how it's my fault they won't answer.

Funny how that works.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #107 on: September 28, 2017, 11:00:00 pm »


The problem with the new neo-con definition of conservative...
it is all about money... and no longer about morality.

You claim far too many "problems," with conservatives and their polices, for me to take you seriously


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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #108 on: September 29, 2017, 01:00:05 am »
Depends on what you call rich. Hubby and i make the top bracket (barely)   we pay 6 figures a year in federal income tax. Add that to state and local tax and our marginal tax rate is around 50%.    I am paying for kids in grad school and have one small enough I still need a nanny.  Tax shelters?  There are none for 1099 income. If you are truly rich and don't work for a living, there are plenty for capital gains and inherited money.  But if you work (days, nights, weekends, holidays, sometimes 14-16 hour days) there are no tax shelters.  My kids that I am supporting get no federal help (we make too much) with all the $ we pay into the system.  In fact, I can't even write them off, because the AMT rolls off all our deductions.  Rich? hardly.  Yes we do OK, but I drive a Honda not a mercedes ans we are hoping to save enough to retire some day so we don't have to keep working like this.  How much more of my income is the government entitled to?  I am the "rich" you want to pay more taxes.  The truly rich don't pay income tax because THEY DONT WORK!

I did not advocate for you to pay more.  I advocated for the lower wage earners to pay less.  I am glad you are able to put your kids through grad school.  I don't fault you for being successful.  It is just that we need a break right now and government hasn't worked for us for a long, long time.

I work just as hard as you.  I work sometimes 30-40 hours of overtime so that I can pay my bills.  I was recently diagnosed with cancer.  I would love to not have to spend my entire waking hours working.  I have been a Republican all of my adult life.  But I have had it.  They have driven my wages down by being illegal alien advocates and they keep doing it.  I have been downsized and outsourced.  I have had my wages lowered and just recently topped what I made 20 years ago.  I am pissed.  I make just over a half dollar more than I did in 1996.  I have 40 years of experience in Electronics.  But people working at McDonalds make the same I do.  Do you get my frustration?

Again, I do not want to increase your tax.  Actually I don't give a darn about your tax.  I am thinking about me.
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Offline DB

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #109 on: September 29, 2017, 01:08:45 am »
I did not advocate for you to pay more.  I advocated for the lower wage earners to pay less.  I am glad you are able to put your kids through grad school.  I don't fault you for being successful.  It is just that we need a break right now and government hasn't worked for us for a long, long time.

I work just as hard as you.  I work sometimes 30-40 hours of overtime so that I can pay my bills.  I was recently diagnosed with cancer.  I would love to not have to spend my entire waking hours working.  I have been a Republican all of my adult life.  But I have had it.  They have driven my wages down by being illegal alien advocates and they keep doing it.  I have been downsized and outsourced.  I have had my wages lowered and just recently topped what I made 20 years ago.  I am pissed.  I make just over a half dollar more than I did in 1996.  I have 40 years of experience in Electronics.  But people working at McDonalds make the same I do.  Do you get my frustration?

Again, I do not want to increase your tax.  Actually I don't give a darn about your tax.  I am thinking about me.

I hope your cancer was caught early and is treatable. I was very lucky on that front.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #110 on: September 29, 2017, 01:11:48 am »
I hope your cancer was caught early and is treatable. I was very lucky on that front.

Stage 3.  I am treating it naturally.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #111 on: September 29, 2017, 01:14:45 am »
I did not advocate for you to pay more.  I advocated for the lower wage earners to pay less.  I am glad you are able to put your kids through grad school.  I don't fault you for being successful.  It is just that we need a break right now and government hasn't worked for us for a long, long time.

I work just as hard as you.  I work sometimes 30-40 hours of overtime so that I can pay my bills.  I was recently diagnosed with cancer.  I would love to not have to spend my entire waking hours working.  I have been a Republican all of my adult life.  But I have had it.  They have driven my wages down by being illegal alien advocates and they keep doing it.  I have been downsized and outsourced.  I have had my wages lowered and just recently topped what I made 20 years ago.  I am pissed.  I make just over a half dollar more than I did in 1996.  I have 40 years of experience in Electronics.  But people working at McDonalds make the same I do.  Do you get my frustration?

Again, I do not want to increase your tax.  Actually I don't give a darn about your tax.  I am thinking about me.

I'm going to pray for you about the cancer.  That's terrible.  My husband died of cancer 5 years ago and my sister did about 15 years ago.  I know that sounds discouraging but both of them were not caught early at all.  Many people recover.  I'm just telling you that so you understand why I want to pray for you -- not just now but ongoing. @Chosen Daughter   I'm so sorry you have to face that.

Offline DB

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2017, 01:17:20 am »
Stage 3.  I am treating it naturally.

Is that because there are no good medical options?

I had malignant kidney cancer. Very deadly. I was very lucky it was caught before I had symptoms and it spread. It was removed surgically. Had it remained I would have died within a few years.

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2017, 01:17:38 am »
Stage 3.  I am treating it naturally.

May God bless and keep you!  Praying for the best possible outcome!
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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #114 on: September 29, 2017, 01:20:10 am »
Stage 3.  I am treating it naturally.

YIKES.  I posted my other post before I saw that.  Well....do not give up hope.  Plenty of people survive that stage.  My sister was 3 1/2 and my husband was 4.  Literally.  My husband was diagnosed in March and dead in June.  I'm still sad.  Maybe even I'm more sad.  I keep thinking "Wow...five years without him.."  It doesn't seem like it has been that long at all.  And my sister was 10 years before that.

Please don't be discouraged by my stories.  I'm not telling you for that reason at all.  You know it's serious.  Lots and lots of people survive it.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #115 on: September 29, 2017, 01:21:06 am »
I'm going to pray for you about the cancer.  That's terrible.  My husband died of cancer 5 years ago and my sister did about 15 years ago.  I know that sounds discouraging but both of them were not caught early at all.  Many people recover.  I'm just telling you that so you understand why I want to pray for you -- not just now but ongoing. @Chosen Daughter   I'm so sorry you have to face that.

Thank you I can use prayer and so appreciated.  Sorry about your husband and sister.  I lost my mother to the same cancer when I was young. 
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #116 on: September 29, 2017, 01:23:02 am »
Thank you I can use prayer and so appreciated.  Sorry about your husband and sister.  I lost my mother to the same cancer when I was young.

There have been many advancements in cancer treatment since then.   It shouldn't be exactly the same.

Offline KingsX

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #117 on: September 29, 2017, 01:23:22 am »

He doesn't know us very well, does he? 



My comment was in response to another poster's comment about the philosophical difference between liberal and conservative which concerned money.

As for not knowing you...  based on my experience here so far, I don't want to know you.

Anyone with an ounce of historical perspective knows that the GOP has become more socially  liberal over the past several decades.

Once upon a time the Bible Belt South was all Democrat... until the Democratic Party became too liberal. Then the old Dixiecrats went over to the more conservative GOP and the South began voting solidly Republican.

Now both political parties embrace social liberalism.

For example, in Trump's acceptance speech at the National Republican convention, he overtly praised homosexuals.


Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #118 on: September 29, 2017, 01:24:12 am »
Is that because there are no good medical options?

I had malignant kidney cancer. Very deadly. I was very lucky it was caught before I had symptoms and it spread. It was removed surgically. Had it remained I would have died within a few years.

Same old options.  Chemo Therapy.  Just didn't want to do it.  Have seen what it does to people too many times.  Including my mother and a good friend who recently passed away.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline DB

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #119 on: September 29, 2017, 01:25:38 am »
Thank you I can use prayer and so appreciated.  Sorry about your husband and sister.  I lost my mother to the same cancer when I was young.

A lot has been learned about cancer over the last decade or so. Cancer outcomes have dramatically improved. I don't know what you mean by "natural" but I would not ignore medical treatment if its available.

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #120 on: September 29, 2017, 01:26:43 am »
There have been many advancements in cancer treatment since then.   It shouldn't be exactly the same.

I am doing very well actually.  Feeling good and my first blood test came out normal. I am having my second one soon.  Lots of people beat it naturally.  Its a gamble either way.  I would rather increase my immune system than kill it.  I am doing things that specifically target cancer cells.

And most of all I credit God for healing.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 01:28:45 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #121 on: September 29, 2017, 01:27:07 am »
Same old options.  Chemo Therapy.  Just didn't want to do it.  Have seen what it does to people too many times.  Including my mother and a good friend who recently passed away.

I'm not a doctor so this is just an unprofessional opinion but I think that stuff kills more people than it saves.
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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #122 on: September 29, 2017, 01:30:57 am »
YIKES.  I posted my other post before I saw that.  Well....do not give up hope.  Plenty of people survive that stage.  My sister was 3 1/2 and my husband was 4.  Literally.  My husband was diagnosed in March and dead in June.  I'm still sad.  Maybe even I'm more sad.  I keep thinking "Wow...five years without him.."  It doesn't seem like it has been that long at all.  And my sister was 10 years before that.

Please don't be discouraged by my stories.  I'm not telling you for that reason at all.  You know it's serious.  Lots and lots of people survive it.

I will pray for you too.  Not easy to lose your spouse.  I pray that God will bring you peace and surround you in His love and shelter.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #123 on: September 29, 2017, 01:31:50 am »
I'm not a doctor so this is just an unprofessional opinion but I think that stuff kills more people than it saves.

I think it does too.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

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Re: Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction
« Reply #124 on: September 29, 2017, 01:33:37 am »
Same old options.  Chemo Therapy.  Just didn't want to do it.  Have seen what it does to people too many times.  Including my mother and a good friend who recently passed away.

My sister did not want to do it either.  So she didn't for a couple of months and then all of a sudden she decided it was worth a try.  She lost her hair and was very sick for the last year of her life.  She had a new grandchild, though, and I think if I could ask her she would say that she is happy she got another year with that baby.  Only you can make the call.

With my husband we believed the doctors were thinking of their fantastic vacations we could finance (yes I am cynical about it) when he was a stage 4.  At stage 4 with his type of cancer there was no chance to live a long time -- only to prolong the end with great suffering.  He chose to stop funding the vacations.   Four days in the hospital ran up an $80,000 tab.  And they did next to nothing.  He died anyway.   And very soon.

Stage 3 is much better than even 3.5 and WAY BETTER than 4.