Trump, GOP tax plan cuts rates, nearly doubles deduction

[Bigun]

You still don't get it.

The irony is... I have voted straight GOP for decades...
mostly because I am socially conservative.  But now
that the GOP is abandoning social conservatism and
has embraced an oligarch mentality... I will no longer
vote GOP.   That means I will not vote at all... and
the GOP will lose one vote.  But if the GOP thinks
mine is the only vote they will lose over their elitist
tax cut for the rich, they need to come down from
their ivory towers and embrace reality before they
are thrown down.

How about telling us exactly what you would be for.  That would be interesting and I can't wait to read it!

[txradioguy]

Someone please tell me why we're even considering further cutting taxes when around 40% of Americans are off the tax rolls and we still have this:
http://usdebtclock.org

Because when people have more of the money they earned in their pocket...they spend more and the government on all levels makes more because of increased ability by individuals to make purchases.

The problem in our country isn't a tax rate that isn't high enough...it's a Federal government that is incapable of controlling it's spending.

[txradioguy]

I hope you will forgive me for not believing you have voted GOP ever.

[Victoria33]

The DEVIL is in the details !!
For many people - especially single parents and seniors - doubling the basic standard deduction will NOT compensate for the GOP's plan to eliminate personal exemptions, eliminate the  extra senior standard deduction and increase the lowest tax rate from 10% to 12%.
This would be a tax INCREASE for many who are least able to afford it.

You have that exactly correct.  It takes away my senior deduction and raises the tax rate for us from 10% to 12%.  Trump only likes rich people.

And, he stopped the Jones Act for Texas and Florida when they flooded and needed supplies from other countries to bring their ships in our ports, but won't stop it for Puerto Rico - after all those people are not rich and don't matter much in his election.  No foreign ship can bring in supplies  to Puerto Rico port - the supplies have to be taken off foreign ships and put on American ships as under the Jones Act, only US ships can come into port.  He said today the ship industry has a problem with stopping the Jones Act. 

I really despise this mad man insane president; he starts another war every day, the latest one with football players.  You may be next.

[Chosen Daughter]

Maybe you could explain why tax cuts for the wealthy are immoral, and why you should dictate how their earnings are spent.

Why don't we just attack the GOP voters who aren't rich, huh?  Nobody wants to dictate your earnings and I don't want mine slashed either.  I can't afford it.  It is insane to reduce taxes for rich and raise it for low wage earners.  What is it that the GOP can't understand that the rich aren't the only ones who vote?  We want to be represented.  We want our taxes cut, not raised.

But keep it up and nobody will vote for them.

[Cyber Liberty]

The straw men in use here never cease.

I have been the one attacked by posters here for disagreeing with the GOP tax plan.

No, you are LIKELY to be attacked here because you are having a one-way conversation with yourself.  I've seen you ignore many good Members who have asked you questions, while you just keep saying the same things.  You have not explained why cutting taxes on high earners is "immoral" for example, even after being asked multiple times.

You will not get far on this new forum if you just spew talking points.

So, why don't you try this one:  Why is it immoral to cut the taxes of the highest earners?  How about corporate rates?

[truth_seeker]

You still don't get it.

The irony is... I have voted straight GOP for decades...
mostly because I am socially conservative. But now
that the GOP is abandoning social conservatism and
has embraced an oligarch mentality... I will no longer
vote GOP.   That means I will not vote at all... and
the GOP will lose one vote.  But if the GOP thinks
mine is the only vote they will lose over their elitist
tax cut for the rich, they need to come down from
their ivory towers and embrace reality before they
are thrown down.

I call BS on your entire persona.

The lead story today was Judge Moore's primary win. That is a sign that the GOP is NOT abandoning the social conservatism you claim to value.

Color me suspicious very bigly that anybody so worried as you, about the wealthy not paying enough, is a phony.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[austingirl]

Trump's original tax plan - a far cry from the current plan:

1. If you are single and earn less than $25,000, or married and jointly earn less than $50,000, you will not owe any income tax. That removes nearly 75 million households – over 50% – from the income tax rolls. They get a new one page form to send the IRS saying, “I win,” those who would otherwise owe income taxes will save an average of nearly $1,000 each.

2. All other Americans will get a simpler tax code with four brackets – 0%, 10%, 20% and 25% – instead of the current seven. This new tax code eliminates the marriage penalty and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) while providing the lowest tax rate since before World War II.

[Applewood]

Saw Paul Ryan gushing over this proposal.  That alone makes me wary.

[Chosen Daughter]

No, you are LIKELY to be attacked here because you are having a one-way conversation with yourself.  I've seen you ignore many good Members who have asked you questions, while you just keep saying the same things.  You have not explained why cutting taxes on high earners is "immoral" for example, even after being asked multiple times.

You will not get far on this new forum if you just spew talking points.

So, why don't you try this one:  Why is it immoral to cut the taxes of the highest earners?  How about corporate rates?

I am for corporate tax cuts and stiff penalties also for moving off shore.  I also want to see small businesses get good tax cuts.  Helps employment, or it would if we were employing Americans.

Tax cuts for the rich?  Do they need one?  Can't take it when you go.  It is the lower wage earners who are in desperate need of tax cuts.  I know that isn't the Republican way.  I am not saying increase taxes on rich.  I just don't believe they need a cut.

I think Trump said it during the Primaries when under the gun on his taxes that he takes every advantage given.  And that is what rich people do.  There are so many tax loopholes that they already get cuts others don't.  Trump gets lots of tax loopholes for his real estate business.

[DB]

I am for corporate tax cuts and stiff penalties also for moving off shore.  I also want to see small businesses get good tax cuts.  Helps employment, or it would if we were employing Americans.

Tax cuts for the rich?  Do they need one?  Can't take it when you go.  It is the lower wage earners who are in desperate need of tax cuts.  I know that isn't the Republican way.  I am not saying increase taxes on rich.  I just don't believe they need a cut.

I think Trump said it during the Primaries when under the gun on his taxes that he takes every advantage given.  And that is what rich people do.  There are so many tax loopholes that they already get cuts others don't.  Trump gets lots of tax loopholes for his real estate business.

The "rich" already pay the vast majority of federal income taxes. By lowering taxes on the lower income people while keeping the high rates on the "rich" you are only making the tax code more progressive. More progressive is not going in the right direction. It is allowing more and more people to get a free ride at the expense of others. If lower income people don't like paying so much start demanding that your government spends less instead of shifting the costs to someone else simply because you have more votes than they do.

[Mom MD]

I am for corporate tax cuts and stiff penalties also for moving off shore.  I also want to see small businesses get good tax cuts.  Helps employment, or it would if we were employing Americans.

Tax cuts for the rich?  Do they need one?  Can't take it when you go.  It is the lower wage earners who are in desperate need of tax cuts.  I know that isn't the Republican way.  I am not saying increase taxes on rich.  I just don't believe they need a cut.

I think Trump said it during the Primaries when under the gun on his taxes that he takes every advantage given.  And that is what rich people do.  There are so many tax loopholes that they already get cuts others don't.  Trump gets lots of tax loopholes for his real estate business.

Depends on what you call rich. Hubby and i make the top bracket (barely)   we pay 6 figures a year in federal income tax. Add that to state and local tax and our marginal tax rate is around 50%.    I am paying for kids in grad school and have one small enough I still need a nanny.  Tax shelters?  There are none for 1099 income. If you are truly rich and don't work for a living, there are plenty for capital gains and inherited money.  But if you work (days, nights, weekends, holidays, sometimes 14-16 hour days) there are no tax shelters.  My kids that I am supporting get no federal help (we make too much) with all the $ we pay into the system.  In fact, I can't even write them off, because the AMT rolls off all our deductions.  Rich? hardly.  Yes we do OK, but I drive a Honda not a mercedes ans we are hoping to save enough to retire some day so we don't have to keep working like this.  How much more of my income is the government entitled to?  I am the "rich" you want to pay more taxes.  The truly rich don't pay income tax because THEY DONT WORK!

[DB]

Depends on what you call rich. Hubby and i make the top bracket (barely)   we pay 6 figures a year in federal income tax. Add that to state and local tax and our marginal tax rate is around 50%.    I am paying for kids in grad school and have one small enough I still need a nanny.  Tax shelters?  There are none for 1099 income. If you are truly rich and don't work for a living, there are plenty for capital gains and inherited money.  But if you work (days, nights, weekends, holidays, sometimes 14-16 hour days) there are no tax shelters.  My kids that I am supporting get no federal help (we make too much) with all the $ we pay into the system.  In fact, I can't even write them off, because the AMT rolls off all our deductions.  Rich? hardly.  Yes we do OK, but I drive a Honda not a mercedes ans we are hoping to save enough to retire some day so we don't have to keep working like this.  How much more of my income is the government entitled to?  I am the "rich" you want to pay more taxes.  The truly rich don't pay income tax because THEY DONT WORK!

I'm essentially in the same boat. I already pay at least 50% of my income in taxes. Remove the deduction for state taxes and property taxes and I'm really screwed.

[KingsX]

Trump's original tax plan - a far cry from the current plan:

1. If you are single and earn less than $25,000, or married and jointly earn less than $50,000, you will not owe any income tax. That removes nearly 75 million households – over 50% – from the income tax rolls. They get a new one page form to send the IRS saying, “I win,” those who would otherwise owe income taxes will save an average of nearly $1,000 each.

2. All other Americans will get a simpler tax code with four brackets – 0%, 10%, 20% and 25% – instead of the current seven. This new tax code eliminates the marriage penalty and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) while providing the lowest tax rate since before World War II.

Exactly !

It was a bait and switch to get people on Trump's bandwagon.

After Trump proposed this plan, he began crawfishing... lowering
his standard deduction to the same abomination he unveiled today
which just happened to match the standard deduction proposed by
the GOP June 2016 in their "Blueprint - A Better Way" plan which
also eliminates personal exemptions and eliminates the extra senior
standard deduction and increases the lowest tax rate from 10% to 12%.

Here's a link to the 2016 GOP plan. Almost exactly the same plan unveiled today.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3XBs6H0rpTgJ:https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-Tax-PolicyPaper.pdf%2Bbetter+way+blueprint&hl=en&gbv=1&ct=clnk

[Right_in_Virginia]

So much parsing of a first proposal is silly.  Even more so since the chances of tax reform garnering 51 votes in the Senate is slim to none.

[libertybele]

Because when people have more of the money they earned in their pocket...they spend more and the government on all levels makes more because of increased ability by individuals to make purchases.

The problem in our country isn't a tax rate that isn't high enough...it's a Federal government that is incapable of controlling it's spending.

Trump is correct in lowering the corporate tax rate which he himself will greatly benefit from.  He is attempting to curb the Fed spending on social security, however, it will dip into the pockets of retirees by 'adjusting' tax burdens on IRA's, pensions and 401ks, etc. 

I'm waiting to see what kind of impact he will have on those with existing healthcare plans; IMHO that's where his next 'tax adjustment' will hit.  In other words, if you have a private healthcare plan which is in part subsidized by your employer, that will be considered income and you will be taxed on it.  I also forsee that Medicare benefits will be reduced and will also see a 'tax adjustment'.

[libertybele]

So much parsing of a first proposal is silly.  Even more so since the chances of tax reform garnering 60 votes in the Senate is slim to none.

??? This is being generated in the House which I think will pass unanimously and is being sold as a middle class miracle.  Once the House passes it and it is sold to be public the Senate will fall in line.

[driftdiver]

??? This is being generated in the House which I think will pass unanimously and is being sold as a middle class miracle.  Once the House passes it and it is sold to be public the Senate will fall in line.

And then McCain will do his best to kill it.

[libertybele]

Why don't we just attack the GOP voters who aren't rich, huh?  Nobody wants to dictate your earnings and I don't want mine slashed either.  I can't afford it.  It is insane to reduce taxes for rich and raise it for low wage earners.  What is it that the GOP can't understand that the rich aren't the only ones who vote?  We want to be represented.  We want our taxes cut, not raised.

But keep it up and nobody will vote for them.

On this you and I agree. I can't afford things now, and we are in the process of selling our home and  downsizing to make things more affordable.  With the new proposed tax laws, I don't know what to do next to remedy our financial situation.

[cato potatoe]

Why don't we just attack the GOP voters who aren't rich, huh?  Nobody wants to dictate your earnings and I don't want mine slashed either.  I can't afford it.  It is insane to reduce taxes for rich and raise it for low wage earners.  What is it that the GOP can't understand that the rich aren't the only ones who vote?  We want to be represented.  We want our taxes cut, not raised.

But keep it up and nobody will vote for them.

You are correct on the political reality.  However, the underlying problem remains unsolved.  Every election (except perhaps 2016) the low earners go to the voting booth and choose the one who will spend the most.  Their attitudes might change if they were required to pay for part of it.  We have a government that borrows 10% of the budget in good times and 50% in bad times.  Exempting people from responsibility has put us in this position.  At some point, the bill will come due, and the lower and middle classes will suffer like they never have.

[txradioguy]

Trump is correct in lowering the corporate tax rate which he himself will greatly benefit from.  He is attempting to curb the Fed spending on social security, however, it will dip into the pockets of retirees by 'adjusting' tax burdens on IRA's, pensions and 401ks, etc. 

I'm waiting to see what kind of impact he will have on those with existing healthcare plans; IMHO that's where his next 'tax adjustment' will hit.  In other words, if you have a private healthcare plan which is in part subsidized by your employer, that will be considered income and you will be taxed on it.  I also forsee that Medicare benefits will be reduced and will also see a 'tax adjustment'.

The corporate tax rate needs to be cut in half IMO...ours is the highest in the world and we're considered one of the least friendly country's to do business in IIRC.  I've seen nothing about slashing capital gains taxes or eliminating the death tax either.

Both of those need to be on the chopping block as well.

[Bigun]

The corporate tax rate needs to be cut in half IMO...ours is the highest in the world and we're considered one of the least friendly country's to do business in IIRC.  I've seen nothing about slashing capital gains taxes or eliminating the death tax either.

Both of those need to be on the chopping block as well.

It needs to be done away with entirely!  It is pure subterfuge to begin with as corporations cannot and do not pay them!  Taxes of this nature fall on any one or any combination of three places. 1. The wind up in the price of the good or service produced by the corporation 2. they reduce the pay and benefits of workers employed by the corporation, or 3. they fall on the shareholders of the corporation.  All of whom are individuals. 

[Cyber Liberty]

And then McCain will do his best to kill it.

Yup.  He was one of the few Republicans to vote against the Bush tax cuts in 2001, which led to the Recall McCain movement.  He'll vote against any tax cut, you can make book on that.  To be a PITA if for no other reason.

[Cyber Liberty]

You are correct on the political reality.  However, the underlying problem remains unsolved.  Every election (except perhaps 2016) the low earners go to the voting booth and choose the one who will spend the most.  Their attitudes might change if they were required to pay for part of it.  We have a government that borrows 10% of the budget in good times and 50% in bad times.  Exempting people from responsibility has put us in this position.  At some point, the bill will come due, and the lower and middle classes will suffer like they never have.

I think they would care more if they were paying, yes.  As of now, they have no "skin in the game," especially the group of people cashing in on the EITC and collecting "refunds" when they've had nothing withheld, making their effective tax rates negative.  I have a niece who got an eight thousand dollar refund one year, after having paid zero in tax withheld the whole year.  Believe you and me, she'd be against anything that would upset that apple cart.

[Jazzhead]

What's missing is the elimination of the IRS and the ability of the little princes in Washington to manipulate our behavior via the tax code!  Nothing much otherwise!