Obama’s Watergate

[skeeter]

@mountaineer, did you read that article by Daniel Greenfield:   http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,281932.msg1456957.html#msg1456957?

Good explanation of what we are seeing.

I read that excellent article as well.

Anyone reading it and concluding its all no big deal is either a partisan or is not all that bright. Obama's misuse of intelligence and national security agencies for political purposes is an extremely serious business.

It must be dealt with justly or this nation will be in a very bad place in a few more years.

[Sanguine]

That's well and good if there's actual EVIDENCE that it's a cigar.  In this particular case, we have a bunch of speculation, hope, and desire that IF we ever find out the "whole truth" Greenfield feels "we will likely discover" Obama used "legal pretexts to spy on the Trump's team".   When that day comes, I'll celebrate. Until then, I'll await the actual evidence, truth, data, and facts. 

Regardless, it's nice to have a civil discussion and disagreement with someone without it degenerating into snark and personal attacks.  Have a great night! 

 

And, you too.

[Bigun]

I read it earlier.  Lots of assertions about "crimes", "criminal motives", and attempts to sow outrage by talking about such things as the "Obama espionage operation".  Even the article notes that we don't everything: 

"When we learn the whole truth (if we ever do), we will likely discover that Obama Inc. assembled a motley collection of different technically legal pretexts to spy on Trump’s team."

The bold above is key IMO:  if we ever discover the whole truth, and we are "likely".  Fine, Greenfield is entitled to his opinion but that's all that is:  opinion.  Look, I'd love to "Lock her up".  I'd love even more to "Lock him up" (Obama).  I'm afraid that thinking Obama or someone from his Administration is going to be locked up over a legally issued FISA warrant is just kooky-talk.  At least IMO.

I have only one question?  Are you on Obama's payroll?

[Concerned]

I have only one question?  Are you on Obama's payroll?

No, I'm not on Obama's payroll anymore than I'd be on Trump's payroll.  I'm just a patriotic American trying to evaluate evidence and data as objectively as I can, and someone who tries to hold politicians from both parties accountable for the promises that are important to me. 

[Bigun]

No, I'm not on Obama's payroll anymore than I'd be on Trump's payroll.  I'm just a patriotic American trying to evaluate evidence and data as objectively as I can, and someone who tries to hold politicians from both parties accountable for the promises that are important to me.

It's abundantly clear to me that the Obama administration was THE most lawless administration to come along in a century and to be doing your dead level best to defend them!

[Concerned]

It's abundantly clear to me that the Obama administration was THE most lawless administration to come along in a century and to be doing your dead level best to defend them!

@Bigun 

I'd love for Obama and his crew to get rolled up, but I don't see it happening over a legally-issued FISA warrant.  Once Trump's Justice Department conducts successful prosecutions of Obama Administration officials, I'll gladly admit I was wrong though.

[Bigun]

@Bigun 

I'd love for Obama and his crew to get rolled up, but I don't see it happening over a legally-issued FISA warrant.  Once Trump's Justice Department conducts successful prosecutions of Obama Administration officials, I'll gladly admit I was wrong though.

Who says it was legally issued?  How do you know that? 

Don't hold your breath waiting for the Trump "Justice" department to touch ANY of them!

[Concerned]

Who says it was legally issued?  How do you know that? 

Don't hold your breath waiting for the Trump "Justice" department to touch ANY of them!

Reports are that the warrant was issued by a FISA court.  I assume that was legally obtained.  If it was indeed illegal, I'd hope the "law and order" Administration would go after the criminals who obtained it illegally.  Regardless, the fact that Obama Administration officials won't likely be prosecuted over this, is my entire point.  Have a good night.   

[skeeter]

@Bigun 

I'd love for Obama and his crew to get rolled up, but I don't see it happening over a legally-issued FISA warrant.  Once Trump's Justice Department conducts successful prosecutions of Obama Administration officials, I'll gladly admit I was wrong though.

But did you read the article Sanguine linked to, really? The point it made was while each individual pretext might be technically defensible, together they form a pattern, they apparently add up to a crime.

You seem content to technically defend in detail what on the whole stinks to high heaven. NO patriotic American could be so blase' about the abuse of authority obviously committed by Obama.

[Bigun]

Reports are that the warrant was issued by a FISA court.  I assume that was legally obtained.  If it was indeed illegal, I'd hope the "law and order" Administration would go after the criminals who obtained it illegally.  Regardless, the fact that Obama Administration officials won't likely be prosecuted over this, is my entire point.  Have a good night.   

How in the hell can anyone have a good night knowing that thier country has been turned into the world's largest banana republic and all of those responsible for doing this are walking around free as birds?

[skeeter]

How in the hell can anyone have a good night knowing that thier country has been turned into the world's largest banana republic and all of those responsible for doing this are walking around free as birds?

Meanwhile the Washington DC clique's Kraken has been mobilized and is spending millions of taxpayer dollars and hundreds of man-hours on a scandal for which there is NO SOLID EVIDENCE.

No rational person without an agenda would defend the current state of affairs.

[Concerned]

But did you read the article Sanguine linked to, really? The point it made was while each individual pretext might be technically defensible, together they form a pattern, they apparently add up to a crime.

You seem content to technically defend in detail what on the whole stinks to high heaven. NO patriotic American could be so blase' about the abuse of authority obviously committed by Obama.

Yes, I did read the article Sanguine linked to.  If there's such obvious evidence of "crimes", "criminal motives", and the "Obama espionage operation" as asserted in that article, what do you think the timeline is for Trump Administration prosecutions of Obama Administration officials?   How many successful prosecutions do you expect?  I expect zero.

[Concerned]

How in the hell can anyone have a good night knowing that thier country has been turned into the world's largest banana republic and all of those responsible for doing this are walking around free as birds?

What I think we need is a "law and order" President who truly respects the rule of law.  Sadly, I don't expect to see one during the rest of my lifetime (I'm 57).  I'm still going to try my best to have a good night with my loving family though.  I encourage everyone else to try also.

[Bigun]

What I think we need is a "law and order" President who truly respects the rule of law.  Sadly, I don't expect to see one during the rest of my lifetime (I'm 57).  I'm still going to try my best to have a good night with my loving family though.  I encourage everyone else to try also.

I'm 69  next week and will die a throughly broken man if these bastards get away with all they've done!

[skeeter]

Yes, I did read the article Sanguine linked to.  If there's such obvious evidence of "crimes", "criminal motives", and the "Obama espionage operation" as asserted in that article, what do you think the timeline is for Trump Administration prosecutions of Obama Administration officials?   How many successful prosecutions do you expect?  I expect zero.

Are you offering that as proof that obama did not abuse his office or committed no crimes?

[Fishrrman]

Is it time to fire Mueller yet?
Is it time to have his trumped-up investigation disbanded yet?

[Concerned]

Are you offering that as proof that obama did not abuse his office or committed no crimes?

Absolutely not!  I'd love to see Obama and his crew prosecuted but I simply don't believe the evidence that I've seen, including the much ballyhooed Greenfield article, is enough to prosecute. I hope Trump's DOJ proves me wrong, but I have little reason to believe that. Despite all this talk, I've seen few, even of the most zealous Trump supporters, who are willing to predict mass successful prosecutions. How many do you predict? 

[Sanguine]

How in the hell can anyone have a good night knowing that thier country has been turned into the world's largest banana republic and all of those responsible for doing this are walking around free as birds?

Bigun, I'm having a very nice night.  Glass of wine, good company that just left, nice A/C and two dogs whom I've somehow managed to make believe I'm a wonderful person.  Looking forward to spending some time with the grandkids tomorrow.  No SOB in Washington DC is going to spoil my evening.  When we get these peaceful, nice times, we need to make sure and appreciate them.  Don't let the b*****ds wear you down.

[skeeter]

Absolutely not!  I'd love to see Obama and his crew prosecuted but I simply don't believe the evidence that I've seen, including the much ballyhooed Greenfield article, is enough to prosecute. I hope Trump's DOJ proves me wrong, but I have little reason to believe that. Despite all this talk, I've seen few, even of the most zealous Trump supporters, who are willing to predict mass successful prosecutions. How many do you predict?

Non sequitur.

[Concerned]

Non sequitur.

If the Obama Administration so obviously and egregiously broke the law with the Manafort wiretapping, as some seem to assert (including Greenfield in his article), I'd think a true "rule of law" Administration would prosecute.  I don't see enough evidence to prosecute, and I expect the same is true with Trump's self-described "law and order" DOJ, which is why I don't expect them to prosecute.   Hope that helps you understand the logic of my previous argument.

[skeeter]

If the Obama Administration so obviously and egregiously broke the law with the Manafort wiretapping, as some seem to assert (including Greenfield in his article), I'd think a true "rule of law" Administration would prosecute.  I don't see enough evidence to prosecute, and I expect the same is true with Trump's self-described "law and order" DOJ, which is why I don't expect them to prosecute.   Hope that helps you understand the logic of my previous argument.

According to the logic of your previous argument, there been scarcely a law broken by any administration since Watergate.

Thats why I'm not buying it.

[Concerned]

According to the logic of your previous argument, there been scarcely a law broken by any administration since Watergate.

Thats why I'm not buying it.

And you're entitled to your opinion! 

If I'm wrong, I genuinely look forward to the "law and order" Administration prosecutions of Obama Administration officials and will vocally celebrate them!

 

[skeeter]

And you're entitled to your opinion! 

If I'm wrong, I genuinely look forward to the "law and order" Administration prosecutions of Obama Administration officials and will vocally celebrate them!

 

Or, you could add your voice to the chorus demanding that justice be done. As it was with Watergate, sometimes its necessary that the public apply a little pressure to Washington in their own interests. Unless you really do believe that everything Obama did here - the sketchy FISA requests, the unmasking, the distribution of data to various agencies for leaking - was copacetic.

[Concerned]

Or, you could add your voice to the chorus demanding that justice be done. As it was with Watergate, sometimes its necessary that the public apply a little pressure to Washington in their own interests. Unless you really do believe that everything Obama did here - the sketchy FISA requests, the unmasking, the distribution of data to various agencies for leaking - was copacetic.

I thought I’ve been singing pretty loudly in this thread alone.  I’d love to see Obama and his posse be prosecuted.  If that’s not clear, I don’t know what is.  Unfortunately, I don't see it happening with the evidence unearthed to date.  I've asked how many prosecutions folks expect and get crickets in reply.  If you expect mass prosecutions, I hope you're right.
Look, I tried to be clear below in some selected quotes from this thread alone.  I’m sorry I’m unable to clearly communicate with you.  Have a nice day though!     

.  ……Look, I'd love to "Lock her up".  I'd love even more to "Lock him up" (Obama). ………

I'd love for Obama and his crew to get rolled up, but I don't see it happening over a legally-issued FISA warrant.  Once Trump's Justice Department conducts successful prosecutions of Obama Administration officials, I'll gladly admit I was wrong though.

Reports are that the warrant was issued by a FISA court.  I assume that was legally obtained.  If it was indeed illegal, I'd hope the "law and order" Administration would go after the criminals who obtained it illegally.  Regardless, the fact that Obama Administration officials won't likely be prosecuted over this, is my entire point.  Have a good night.   

.............I'd love to see Obama and his crew prosecuted.......

..............If I'm wrong, I genuinely look forward to the "law and order" Administration prosecutions of Obama Administration officials and will vocally celebrate them!............

[skeeter]

I thought I’ve been singing pretty loudly in this thread alone.  I’d love to see Obama and his posse be prosecuted.  If that’s not clear, I don’t know what is.  Unfortunately, I don't see it happening with the evidence unearthed to date.  I've asked how many prosecutions folks expect and get crickets in reply.  If you expect mass prosecutions, I hope you're right.
Look, I tried to be clear below in some selected quotes from this thread alone.  I’m sorry I’m unable to clearly communicate with you.  Have a nice day though!     

Apparently we've been talking past each other then, because the quotes you've provided aren't the kind of support I was talking about. But have a nice day as well.