Author Topic: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal  (Read 7782 times)

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2017, 06:53:08 pm »
Because it delegates some power to the states and eliminates the mandate (I think) and because baby steps are better than no steps at all.

Read the bill, Emjay.  It is still dependent upon the federal government for implementation.  States must jump thru hoops to comply and "receive funds".  Funds that the states wouldn't need IF (big if) the federal government would just get the hell out of the way via 'full repeal'... and out of the issue and let the states run their own healthcare issues as they choose.  Bottom line... it is still ultimately federal control, IMO.  I dunno.  Maybe somebody here that has read the bill can explain to me how I'm wrong re: that.

https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Section%20by%20Section%20Final.pdf


Quote
Each year states will receive their allotted amount based on a formula. Amounts allotted would remain available for use by the state through the end of the second succeeding year. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 06:54:24 pm by XenaLee »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2017, 06:53:48 pm »
@Emjay
I'm not against compromise but compromise with these folks is usually cutting your own throat.

If this passes the Republicans will claim victory.  They will claim they upheld their promises to fix Obamacare and they will move on to their next goat rope and the sheep will fall in line.

No I think its better to hold their feet to the fire.   They promised repeal and by golly they need to deliver the repeal of Obamacare.
I agree!
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Offline Bigun

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2017, 06:55:50 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

Having now read the actual bill

https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Section%20by%20Section%20Final.pdf

I am for passing it into law  warts and all.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2017, 06:58:38 pm »
You are not wrong.  That's how EVERY government program is.

Rewarding bad behavior is the leftist way.  Only, they're calling states that didn't bend to the will of the ObamaCare leftists the "bad states".  Typical.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2017, 07:02:17 pm »
@Emjay
I'm not against compromise but compromise with these folks is usually cutting your own throat.

If this passes the Republicans will claim victory.  They will claim they upheld their promises to fix Obamacare and they will move on to their next goat rope and the sheep will fall in line.

No I think its better to hold their feet to the fire.   They promised repeal and by golly they need to deliver the repeal of Obamacare.

I don't trust them either but blocking everything to get back at them is pointless.  Whatever they claim as a result of this measure, people will still know that the promises aren't kept.

So, I don't see the point in thinking doing nothing is holding their feet to the fire.  Obviously, they don't care about the people's wishes.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2017, 07:03:02 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

Having now read the actual bill

https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Section%20by%20Section%20Final.pdf

I am for passing it into law  warts and all.

If you actually read the whole bill, I shall defer to you on everything now.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #56 on: September 21, 2017, 07:04:50 pm »
I don't trust them either but blocking everything to get back at them is pointless.  Whatever they claim as a result of this measure, people will still know that the promises aren't kept.

So, I don't see the point in thinking doing nothing is holding their feet to the fire.  Obviously, they don't care about the people's wishes.

@Emjay
I'm not suggesting we "get back at them" although they deserve to be tarred and feathered.  I'm suggesting they deliver on their promise.   They control the House, Senate, and White House and still cannot deliver on their promise.

From what I've seen this bill wont fix the problem which means it will take the pressure off and they'll ignore it until a new administration comes in.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #57 on: September 21, 2017, 07:07:15 pm »
@Emjay
I'm not suggesting we "get back at them" although they deserve to be tarred and feathered.  I'm suggesting they deliver on their promise.   They control the House, Senate, and White House and still cannot deliver on their promise.

From what I've seen this bill wont fix the problem which means it will take the pressure off and they'll ignore it until a new administration comes in.

And, I expect that that is exactly how and why it was written.

Offline Bigun

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #58 on: September 21, 2017, 07:08:25 pm »
If you actually read the whole bill, I shall defer to you on everything now.

As these thing go this one is easy to read.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #59 on: September 21, 2017, 07:32:17 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

Having now read the actual bill

https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Section%20by%20Section%20Final.pdf

I am for passing it into law  warts and all.

I appreciate that, @Bigun!  I just didn't trust that Vox place, they're messed up in the head.  :shrug:
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2017, 07:45:36 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

Having now read the actual bill

https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Section%20by%20Section%20Final.pdf

I am for passing it into law  warts and all.

What specific parts are you in favor of, Bigun?
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2017, 07:48:44 pm »
If you actually read the whole bill, I shall defer to you on everything now.

It is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong).... that the actual bill is over 100 pages (140 something?).  What was posted is a 20-page summary or 'bullet points' of what's in the actual bill.  We still haven't seen the entire, actual bill.  Which is scary....considering how well some things manage to be hidden in these bills somehow.


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Offline Bigun

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2017, 07:50:29 pm »
What specific parts are you in favor of, Bigun?

Getting rid of the mandates in particular. And the federalism it invokes!
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 07:58:45 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Emjay

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2017, 07:57:21 pm »
@Emjay
I'm not suggesting we "get back at them" although they deserve to be tarred and feathered.  I'm suggesting they deliver on their promise.   They control the House, Senate, and White House and still cannot deliver on their promise.

From what I've seen this bill wont fix the problem which means it will take the pressure off and they'll ignore it until a new administration comes in.

I don't care.   There is no pressure on them now and there are no feet to the fire.  They feel no obligation to the people.

If this measure helps at all, I'm ready to go with it.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2017, 08:03:37 pm »
Getting rid of the mandates in particular. And the federalism it invokes!
If the Feds are handing out the money they remain in control, they are just using the states to implement stuff, which means 50 court cases to get rid of parts you don't like instead of one.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Bigun

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2017, 08:06:47 pm »
If the Feds are handing out the money they remain in control, they are just using the states to implement stuff, which means 50 court cases to get rid of parts you don't like instead of one.

Did you read it?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline XenaLee

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2017, 08:15:32 pm »
Getting rid of the mandates in particular. And the federalism it invokes!

I like the getting rid of the mandates....but the part about leaving the ultimate control to the federal government I do NOT like.  It needs to go back to the way it was before the leftist Democrats tried to destroy our economy and take over by passing this disaster of a bill.  This bill may have a few good things in it, but the end result is the same....government control of healthcare ..... which government has NO business being involved with.  The only way to truly rid us of this government over-reach is full repeal, root and branch... AS WAS PROMISED.

I don't ever see that repeal happening, however.   This bill, if passed (and it's a long-shot) would merely delay the collapse and cause yet more chaos and confusion as states attempt to make the resultant and necessary changes to comply.  More uncertainty for the economy = slow or no recovery.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2017, 08:18:48 pm »
Did you read it?
I skimmed over it. If the feds are granting block grants, that is the money. If they don't hand out the grants do mandates remain on the States, even without the Federal Money?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Emjay

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2017, 08:28:43 pm »
I like the getting rid of the mandates....but the part about leaving the ultimate control to the federal government I do NOT like.  It needs to go back to the way it was before the leftist Democrats tried to destroy our economy and take over by passing this disaster of a bill.  This bill may have a few good things in it, but the end result is the same....government control of healthcare ..... which government has NO business being involved with.  The only way to truly rid us of this government over-reach is full repeal, root and branch... AS WAS PROMISED.

I don't ever see that repeal happening, however.   This bill, if passed (and it's a long-shot) would merely delay the collapse and cause yet more chaos and confusion as states attempt to make the resultant and necessary changes to comply.  More uncertainty for the economy = slow or no recovery.

I respect your opinions but I don't see that passing this bill would hurt us.  Why do people think Obamacare will collapse of its own weight.  It has been an utter failure but it hasn't collapsed yet.

I think we should take what is offered in this bill and continue our efforts to get through to the Congress critters.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2017, 08:30:17 pm »
Would I have prefered a full repeal?   Hell yes!  Is that going to happen?   Nope!   

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline txradioguy

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2017, 08:31:16 pm »
I don't trust them either but blocking everything to get back at them is pointless.  Whatever they claim as a result of this measure, people will still know that the promises aren't kept.

So, I don't see the point in thinking doing nothing is holding their feet to the fire.  Obviously, they don't care about the people's wishes.

This isn't about any kind of revenge...it's about doing what's right for the people.  ANY form of government controlled health care...even at the state level IMO is not in the best interest of the people.

And if the politicians have stopped caring about what their voters want...it's time the voters sent them home.
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Offline Elderberry

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2017, 08:31:27 pm »
It is my understanding (correct me if I am wrong).... that the actual bill is over 100 pages (140 something?).  What was posted is a 20-page summary or 'bullet points' of what's in the actual bill.  We still haven't seen the entire, actual bill.  Which is scary....considering how well some things manage to be hidden in these bills somehow.
@XenaLee

Full Text:  https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/LYN17709.pdf
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 08:34:14 pm by Elderberry »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #72 on: September 21, 2017, 08:32:02 pm »
Would I have prefered a full repeal?   Hell yes!  Is that going to happen?   Nope!

It won't happen because people keep accepting half measures and being lied to that "it's the best we can do".

It's NOT the best they can do.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #73 on: September 21, 2017, 08:32:53 pm »
Getting rid of the mandates in particular. And the federalism it invokes!

That's the selling point to me. There seems to be no political will to repeal Obamacare and the current Federal leviathan. I don't expect it to happen. Any solution that has come about simply shuffles the chairs but keeps the FedGov bureaucracy in place.

While this bill keeps many of the rules, it shifts the administration to the states. States for the most part seem to have more efficient bureaucracies than the Feds, and are closer to the customers that they serve.

But most importantly is that politically it now puts the Governors and State legislatures into the game, and at odds with their respective state's congressional officials, as they have to make this work for their consitutuents. State officials are far closer to the public, and by extension that allows for greater ability for citizens to apply pressure to have a set of rules that function.

So if I'm going to be stuck with something at the Federal or State level, I'll take the state and try to make it better over time.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: The two senators who will likely decide fate of ObamaCare repeal
« Reply #74 on: September 21, 2017, 08:34:22 pm »
It won't happen because people keep accepting half measures and being lied to that "it's the best we can do".

It's NOT the best they can do.

It won't happen because the lobby doesn't want it to happen and we aint going to change that!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien