Author Topic: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it  (Read 5669 times)

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Online Bigun

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #75 on: September 21, 2017, 02:12:18 pm »
There is one factor that long term may tip the balance - the fact that this is going to fall on the states. Generally that's a very good thing if the FedGov gives them the proper leeway.

Except for getting rid of the mandate and the penalty, they aren't doing that right now. It does though open the door in the future for beneficial tweaks. For example allowing companies to pool across state lines by reciprocity agreements, exclusions/carve outs, incentives for companies to take high risks but not jack their premium, etc.

But, it is a fundamental structural shift to boot it to the states, even if the motive likely is to get it out of the Congress critters hair. That does end alot of the FedGov bureaucratic control over it via the Executive branch, as long as the states obey the parameters.

@Free Vulcan

Have you seen the actual bill in question?  I can't seem to find it.
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Online Free Vulcan

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2017, 03:06:19 pm »
@Free Vulcan

Have you seen the actual bill in question?  I can't seem to find it.

@Bigun I have not, only second hand writeups.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 03:07:07 pm by Free Vulcan »
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Online Bigun

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #77 on: September 21, 2017, 03:10:00 pm »
@Bigun I have not, only second hand writeups.

Yeah!  Me to!  I would like to see the actual bill before I pronounce judgment instead of other people's opinions.

IF this is true then I'm all for it!

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Applewood

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2017, 03:18:54 pm »
Prayerfully, Senator Paul changes his mind.

Pro-Life Senators like Senator Tom Cotton and Ted Cruz support this bill. I commend them.

Ok, I must be behind because last I heard Ted Cruz, at least, was undecided. 

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2017, 03:21:48 pm »
Yeah!  Me to!  I would like to see the actual bill before I pronounce judgment instead of other people's opinions.

IF this is true then I'm all for it!

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy

That's Ezra Klein's website...gotta take everything he says with a LARGE grain of salt.
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Online Free Vulcan

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2017, 06:07:31 pm »
Yeah!  Me to!  I would like to see the actual bill before I pronounce judgment instead of other people's opinions.

IF this is true then I'm all for it!

https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy

That's actually the most detailed analysis I've seen yet. To me this bill is a very mixed bag and a crap shoot.

However, the one thing that this does is take the general day-to-day management of the insurance markets out of the hands of the FedGov bureaucracy and gives it to the states, with rules. That is a major selling point for all the obvious reasons.

It does get rid of the mandate and the penalty which is a high priority. There are some other rules though that have been kept that need to go, and some new rules I'm not sure about.

The crux though, is now the states have skin in the game. They are now motivated to apply pressure to modify the rules. which I doubt would even be a possibility under a total FedGov managed system, or would occur so slowly as to be meaningless deck chair arranging. It means conservatives could mutate the rules along the way to get some of the things they want, like selling across state lines.

And that is the crap shoot. The bill isn't particularly great right now, but there is and open door opportunity to maneuver to improve it. So I can't say I necessarily support the bill, but I'd be willing to gamble on the basic structural shift to the states as a malleable template that could be modified into something much better over time.



« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 06:08:54 pm by Free Vulcan »
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2017, 06:15:34 pm »
@Free Vulcan

Have you seen the actual bill in question?  I can't seem to find it.

No....cause Lindsey is apparently copying Nancy re: that gotta pass it before we know what's in it.  And we all know how that will turn out.
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Offline XenaLee

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No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Online Bigun

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #84 on: September 21, 2017, 06:49:44 pm »
@Bigun

https://www.cassidy.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Section%20by%20Section%20Final.pdf

Thanks @Elderberry !  After reading that I am four square behind this bill.  Warts and all!  Can anyone tell me precisely who this CMS director continually spoken of in this bill is?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #85 on: September 21, 2017, 07:09:03 pm »
Thanks @Elderberry !  After reading that I am four square behind this bill.  Warts and all!  Can anyone tell me precisely who this CMS director continually spoken of in this bill is?
@Bigun

The head of the CMS is the Administrator of the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services. The position is appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. Seema Verma has been confirmed by the US Senate as Administrator of CMS, a top healthcare position in the Trump administration.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #86 on: September 21, 2017, 07:12:42 pm »
@Bigun

The head of the CMS is the Administrator of the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services. The position is appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. Seema Verma has been confirmed by the US Senate as Administrator of CMS, a top healthcare position in the Trump administration.
USA Today's take on Ms Verma, who was in the Pence administration in Indiana: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/05/30/medicaid-chief-seema-verma-blames-obamacare-collapse-founders-medicare/102313242/
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Online Bigun

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2017, 07:14:23 pm »
@Bigun

The head of the CMS is the Administrator of the Center for Medicare & Medicaid Services. The position is appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate. Seema Verma has been confirmed by the US Senate as Administrator of CMS, a top healthcare position in the Trump administration.

@Elderberry @Smokin Joe

Yeah!  I found that but she is listed as the administrator and the bill speaks of the CMS director repeatedly.  Maybe they mean her and maybe they don't.   It remains unclear to me.

I just want to know that it's not some Obama holdover they are granting these powers.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 07:20:00 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #88 on: September 21, 2017, 07:26:41 pm »
@Elderberry @Smokin Joe

Yeah!  I found that but she is listed as the administrator and the bill speaks of the CMS director repeatedly.  Maybe they mean her and maybe they don't.   It remains unclear to me.

I just want to know that it's not some Obama holdover they are granting these powers.
@Bigun
I just quick scanned it and did not see CMS Director. I saw a lot of CMS Administrator.

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #89 on: September 21, 2017, 07:29:22 pm »
@Bigun
I just quick scanned it and did not see CMS Director. I saw a lot of CMS Administrator.

You're right!   My bad!  Guess I'm getting a little paranoid.   :beer:
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 07:29:49 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #90 on: September 21, 2017, 07:29:51 pm »
@Elderberry @Smokin Joe

Yeah!  I found that but she is listed as the administrator and the bill speaks of the CMS director repeatedly.  Maybe they mean her and maybe they don't.   It remains unclear to me.

I just want to know that it's not some Obama holdover they are granting these powers.
@Bigun
There area Lot of Directors. They are all under the Administrator.

https://www.cms.gov/About-CMS/Agency-Information/CMSLeadership/Office_CM.html

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #91 on: September 21, 2017, 07:32:14 pm »
Thanks @Elderberry !  After reading that I am four square behind this bill.  Warts and all! 

Agree!! @Bigun  .. and I hope Sect 121 gets Murkowski across the finish line.

Thanks so much for posting this @Elderberry !

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #92 on: September 21, 2017, 07:32:46 pm »
@Bigun
There area Lot of Directors. They are all under the Administrator.

https://www.cms.gov/About-CMS/Agency-Information/CMSLeadership/Office_CM.html

Which was exactly my concern!  Now cleared up after your previous post caused me to go back and re look.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #93 on: September 21, 2017, 07:56:26 pm »
Agree!! @Bigun  .. and I hope Sect 121 gets Murkowski across the finish line.

Thanks so much for posting this @Elderberry !
@Right_in_Virginia

My pleasure. I'm heading up Virginia way next week to visit my son in Fairfax.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #94 on: September 21, 2017, 08:04:46 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

My pleasure. I'm heading up Virginia way next week to visit my son in Fairfax.

Well, it's a beautiful time of year around here (weather-wise).  I'm a few miles outside the DC border.   

Where will you be coming from??

@Elderberry


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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #95 on: September 21, 2017, 08:18:19 pm »
Well, it's a beautiful time of year around here (weather-wise).  I'm a few miles outside the DC border.   

Where will you be coming from??

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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #96 on: September 21, 2017, 08:59:11 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

My pleasure. I'm heading up Virginia way next week to visit my son in Fairfax.

Take a jacket.

I went up to Leesburg during Irma.  Took nothing but shorts and short sleeves.  Pulled into a rest area just south of the beltway and it was 52 degrees outside.  I still shiver just thinking about it.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #97 on: September 22, 2017, 10:42:02 am »
@Right_in_Virginia

Flying from Houston

Maybe next trip up we can meet in DC for a bite to eat and a beer  ... say the Trump International??     ^-^

Safe travels @Elderberry

Offline Emjay

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #98 on: September 22, 2017, 05:35:45 pm »
It is pretty much guaranteed that if the GOP gets to pass a bill that does little to nothing to remove the onerous provisions which eliminated insurance for many of us, and then rebrand it as their 'fix' that no meaningful progress will be made on the issue. Period. They will deem it "fixed", and that, as they say, will be that.

I"m tired of arguing about this.  Obviously, it is not a repeal, but it does eliminate a couple of the more onerous parts of Obamacare.

Some people are convinced that passing the bill will just extend Obamacare.

But not passing the bill will also extend Obamacare.

Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
« Reply #99 on: September 22, 2017, 05:42:01 pm »
I"m tired of arguing about this.  Obviously, it is not a repeal, but it does eliminate a couple of the more onerous parts of Obamacare.

Some people are convinced that passing the bill will just extend Obamacare.

But not passing the bill will also extend Obamacare.

Right..... either way, we will still HAVE ObamaCare.... whether the full version or the Lite version.  The big/huge difference is.....

the GOP will have put their name and brand on the disaster and will OWN it if this bill passes.  They will get all the blame when this bill fails miserably, just like ObamaCare is failing.  If this ObieCare Lite bill passes.... the system will fail.  It's not a matter of if....

it's a matter of when.

The fed still controls the strings under this bill.  The mandate is gone, the subsidies replaced with "block grants to states".... which will no doubt be doled out unequally, as big government always does.  It was their last chance to get the fedgov the HELL out of our healthcare.  But noooo...
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