Fox & Friends: Maybe Trump’s Wall Was “Symbolic”

[berdie]

Just an observation, but some will be nouveau riche after a dozen generations of having money.
Money and class are not equivalent, although often confused by the whole 'economic class' thing. 
 
I have observed a quiet calm in those who have real wealth and power that I do not sense in Mr. Trump, and would hazard a guess that the eleven figures attributed to him are, in actuality,  less impressive than the mythos surrounding them. Perhaps that is why the tax returns remain hidden from view.

Some people get starry eyed over such, me, meh.

Money is nice, enough money is handy, too little sucks, to be sure, and too much is a liability as much as an asset, (and too much is something that transcends the comfort level of the individual, a level they feel comfortable with or act sensibly with, not anything I or anyone else should impose as a limit. If people have too much, they manage to divest themselves of it soon enough without any outside intervention by officialdom.)
But yes, there are those who get starry eyed at the 'rich and famous'. Whether they vicariously associate with them in some dream world or whatever, they spend money at supermarket checkout stands to read all the latest gossip and form affections and loyalties to individuals and families with extraordinary emotional attachment.  No one said that was a mentally realistic nor balanced situation and in its extremes it can even be dangerous: Look at John Hinkley, who wanted a date with Jodie Foster so badly he shot the President to get her attention (And Jim Brady, and a Capitol Hill Policeman). 

Me, I prefer science fiction as an escape, although politics isn't far behind, in so many ways.

Be that as it may, those fawning sycophants are out there, but few here, mainly because this is one of the more sane discussion sites on the web, and no small number have left here because of our patent lack of obsequiousness. He is an elected official, the President no less, but no entity to be worshipped. My Deity fulfills His promises, and has an impressive track record for doing just that. 

Entire websites have generally given themselves over, like trumpbart (poor Andrew must be tilling the earth above his grave), that treehouse place, and others, and even Fox which has managed to fall significantly from grace among principled Conservatives.

 So saying that because you don't see hardly anyone here who doesn't act that way (much) doesn't mean they aren't out there, wearing their made-in-China MAGA hats and fighting in the streets somewhere just trying to hear someone speak nice things about their new hero--or to shout down those who won't.

I'd have to say this is an unusual sample to draw conclusions from.

We are all glad Hillary lost. Keep that in mind. It's like not getting the grilled tofu at the company picnic. But look at the burger and realize that we could have had steak. YMMV, but at least it isn't the tofu.

I sincerely enjoyed this post. Very well done.

One of my favorite sentences: I prefer science fiction as an escape.

I am having a hard time deciding if this is science fiction or a situation comedy that we aren't privy to the inside joke.

[MOD8]

Mods don't sleep.

They wait.

[Smokin Joe]

Tweeting aside, he has shown a lot of dignity that I didn't know he possessed.  Melania is an impressive first lady and I take back everything I ever said about her.

Trump immediately made some excellent appointments, foremost being Gorsuch, of course, but also conservative and admirable department heads, such as Betsy DeVos.

He's made a couple of speeches that I didn't think he was capable of making.

Sometimes, the appropriate appearance of decorum, others not, and the former is more a surprise than the latter. Melania has done quite well. So in that, better than expected, perhaps, but molding appearances to the job is something he has done as a professional.

It's our country.  We shouldn't want Trump to fail ... just to prove ourselves right.

I have no desire to see failure. That's like wanting the other end of the ship to sink, a shared fate. Most of us want him to do what he said he would do. The "I told you so" comes in when people are finding to our mutual dismay that his promises are not being kept.

So, Trump has a big speech coming up Tuesday night.  It will be interesting to see his take on the deal he has supposedly made with the dems.

Pelosi and Schumer couldn't wait to come out and announce that they had converted Trump.  It was pretty dam sickening.  And way too many people here decided that Pelosi and Schumer could be trusted to tell the truth.

When Schumer smiles, the stock market should fall off, limit down. Nothing that seems to give that man joy is good for the country, which is all the more cause for concern.

[Smokin Joe]

I sincerely enjoyed this post. Very well done.

One of my favorite sentences: I prefer science fiction as an escape.

I am having a hard time deciding if this is science fiction or a situation comedy that we aren't privy to the inside joke.

If it's an inside joke, they aren't sharing... 
Hopefully, we can get some science back in the fiction, some time before the oceans boil and we're all soup...

[Emjay]

Sometimes, the appropriate appearance of decorum, others not, and the former is more a surprise than the latter. Melania has done quite well. So in that, better than expected, perhaps, but molding appearances to the job is something he has done as a professional.
 I have no desire to see failure. That's like wanting the other end of the ship to sink, a shared fate. Most of us want him to do what he said he would do. The "I told you so" comes in when people are finding to our mutual dismay that his promises are not being kept. When Schumer smiles, the stock market should fall off, limit down. Nothing that seems to give that man joy is good for the country, which is all the more cause for concern.

Right, but what scares and appalls me is that the possibility (It has not yet been proven) that Trump will back down on DACA and illegal immigration does not concern people here in the way that it should.

Trump was on the right track on these matters and as long as he was, we were okay. 

But I see people who are almost giddy that their preconceptions about Trump seem to be coming true.  That's creepy.

We're all on that ship.

[XenaLee]

Right, but what scares and appalls me is that the possibility (It has not yet been proven) that Trump will back down on DACA and illegal immigration does not concern people here in the way that it should.

Trump was on the right track on these matters and as long as he was, we were okay. 

But I see people who are almost giddy that their preconceptions about Trump seem to be coming true.  That's creepy.

We're all on that ship.

Exactly right.  And if (more like when) that ship goes down...

we all go down with it.

Scary reality that.

Bottom line.... if Trump caves on illegal immigration.... he will lose most of his "base" and voters will hand the rats a win in the next several elections.  Once they get in and legalize all those "immigrants"... they will never lose another election again.  Perma-FUBAR will have occurred.

[RoosGirl]

Right, but what scares and appalls me is that the possibility (It has not yet been proven) that Trump will back down on DACA and illegal immigration does not concern people here in the way that it should.

Trump was on the right track on these matters and as long as he was, we were okay. 

But I see people who are almost giddy that their preconceptions about Trump seem to be coming true.  That's creepy.

We're all on that ship.

I think you are reading in an emotion (giddy) that isn't really there.  I don't see it.

[Smokin Joe]

Right, but what scares and appalls me is that the possibility (It has not yet been proven) that Trump will back down on DACA and illegal immigration does not concern people here in the way that it should.

Trump was on the right track on these matters and as long as he was, we were okay. 

But I see people who are almost giddy that their preconceptions about Trump seem to be coming true.  That's creepy.

We're all on that ship.

I think it does concern people every bit as much as it should Amnesty would not only be a disaster for Trump, but the country and the GOP. It would be the deal-breaker to end all deal breakers, and as evil as the result could be, the end of the GOP without some force for conservatism to step into the breach could well lead to a new dark age in America of Democrat (Liberal/Socialist) control.

Yep. we know what's at stake here. We have known what has been at stake all along. We tried our damndest to get people to realize it was more than yelling and red hats and twitter, but the mob had the bit in its teeth, and when the closing bell rang, this is what we were holding. We didn't buy it, we got stuck. And people are bitter about that, and perhaps slinging barbs back at people who have been insufferable about how wonderful this was all going to be.

I'll wait until we see what's going on, myself. I hope for America's sake he isn't going to pull some damnesty, but remain skeptical.

[Smokin Joe]

Exactly right.  And if (more like when) that ship goes down...

we all go down with it.

Scary reality that.

Bottom line.... if Trump caves on illegal immigration.... he will lose most of his "base" and voters will hand the rats a win in the next several elections.  Once they get in and legalize all those "immigrants"... they will never lose another election again.  Perma-FUBAR will have occurred.

That's TFUTEAFU (pronounced tea-foo tea-foo).

[XenaLee]

I think it does concern people every bit as much as it should Amnesty would not only be a disaster for Trump, but the country and the GOP. It would be the deal-breaker to end all deal breakers, and as evil as the result could be, the end of the GOP without some force for conservatism to step into the breach could well lead to a new dark age in America of Democrat (Liberal/Socialist) control.

Yep. we know what's at stake here. We have known what has been at stake all along. We tried our damndest to get people to realize it was more than yelling and red hats and twitter, but the mob had the bit in its teeth, and when the closing bell rang, this is what we were holding. We didn't buy it, we got stuck. And people are bitter about that, and perhaps slinging barbs back at people who have been insufferable about how wonderful this was all going to be.

I'll wait until we see what's going on, myself. I hope for America's sake he isn't going to pull some damnesty, but remain skeptical.

I am skeptical, as well.   So much fake news and propaganda out there, one doesn't know what to believe. 

For instance.... is this fake news.... or a preview of another betrayal....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-wont-withdraw-from-paris-deal-eu-says/ar-AAs1bmH?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

[Smokin Joe]

I am skeptical, as well.   So much fake news and propaganda out there, one doesn't know what to believe. 

For instance.... is this fake news.... or a preview of another betrayal....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-wont-withdraw-from-paris-deal-eu-says/ar-AAs1bmH?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

Been smelling that since Tillerson made noises that he would comply a few months ago, https://morningconsult.com/2017/06/13/tillersons-support-paris-agreement-never-changed/ for one.

I have little doubt his XOM parachute included considerable stock or options, and to ditch an agreement that would justify or make worthless millions in research and development costs when he was CEO would possibly be an act that would shoot his portfolio squarely in the foot.

[XenaLee]

Been smelling that since Tillerson made noises that he would comply a few months ago, https://morningconsult.com/2017/06/13/tillersons-support-paris-agreement-never-changed/ for one.

I have little doubt his XOM parachute included considerable stock or options, and to ditch an agreement that would justify or make worthless millions in research and development costs when he was CEO would possibly be an act that would shoot his portfolio squarely in the foot.

The swamp seems to be growing....and getting deeper...

exponentially.

[Emjay]

I am skeptical, as well.   So much fake news and propaganda out there, one doesn't know what to believe. 

For instance.... is this fake news.... or a preview of another betrayal....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-wont-withdraw-from-paris-deal-eu-says/ar-AAs1bmH?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

Amen to that @XenaLee   We just don't realize how much our ideas and sentiments are being shaped by the media and the media has become our enemy.

We try to ignore it, but it permeates our existence and we have NO REAL WAY to know the truth.  I read Ted Cruz posts which I get on Facebook and I read Louie Gohmez, a guy I respect a lot, but how can we know the truth now.

One thing happened to me yesterday.  Usually I have to wait a little while to see if I made the right decision.  I saw I was right after two posts.

[Smokin Joe]

The swamp seems to be growing....and getting deeper...

exponentially.

It isn't getting deeper, we're just getting through to get some better soundings.

[Emjay]

It isn't getting deeper, we're just getting through to get some better soundings.

Not sure what you mean by that but we have nothing to gain by going to the dark side.

[DB]

Not sure what you mean by that but we have nothing to gain by going to the dark side.

I believe he means that the mask is coming off many in D.C. and that we are getting a clearer picture of the beast that governs us.

[Smokin Joe]

Not sure what you mean by that but we have nothing to gain by going to the dark side.

No one here is going to the "dark side", but we are just beginning to understand the depth and breadth of the "swamp".  I have no illusions that there is one 'good' side, easily identified by Party affiliation because that Party sticks to a set of principles, enshrined in their platform, for the good of everyone in America and, needless to say, the Nation itself.

It just isn't so simple.

While it may be disappointing or even disillusioning to find out that those we thought were on 'our side' may have other interests more compelling and less altruistic than those we attributed to them, we still need to know what to expect so that we can position our assets, plan our lives, and do what we need to do to protect our families as best we can.

[Emjay]

I believe he means that the mask is coming off many in D.C. and that we are getting a clearer picture of the beast that governs us.

Yes, but don't go all Invar on us and make me want to get under the covers.  Maybe this will end up being a good thing and we can get the rascals out.

[DB]

Yes, but don't go all Invar on us and make me want to get under the covers.  Maybe this will end up being a good thing and we can get the rascals out.

I don't see anyone, and especially Invar, suggesting that exposing the swamp for what it is is a bad thing. Invar and others simply suggest that the mask slipped some time ago and too many have refused to see it. That the party that lied to us over and over at each election and then done the opposite after the election is somehow going to change with a new liar of a different flavor as its head. Wishful, hopeful thinking is not a plan. Past actions of those who are put in charge point to the likely future actions they will take. There is no logical reason for optimism with those currently in power based on their past actions. The only argument is it could have been worse. Maybe. Short term it is wonderful Hillary is gone. Long term Trump maybe the final straw that destroys the opposition to the left.

California had a number successful Republican governors. The Democrat Gray Davis was a disaster. In response we got Schwarzenegger who was very much like Trump. Not honest, no real principles short of populism. He was the outsider that was going to clean things up. He had plain talk that people loved calling the Democratic opponents "girly men" - among other things. After Schwarzenegger the Republican party and conservatives were essentially destroyed. Schwarzenegger raised taxes and went "green". He was left lite - the lesser of two evils... In that very same election we had Tom McClintock running who was very conservative with common sense. But Schwarzenegger was the bright shiny thing known to the public via movies and took the vote. Sound familiar?

Now California is one party rule going hard left ever since.

[RoosGirl]

I don't see anyone, and especially Invar, suggesting that exposing the swamp for what it is is a bad thing. Invar and others simply suggest that the mask slipped some time ago and too many have refused to see it. That the party that lied to us over and over at each election and then done the opposite after the election is somehow going to change with a new liar of a different flavor as its head. Wishful, hopeful thinking is not a plan. Past actions of those who are put in charge point to the likely future actions they will take. There is no logical reason for optimism with those currently in power based on their past actions. The only argument is it could have been worse. Maybe. Short term it is wonderful Hillary is gone. Long term Trump maybe the final straw that destroys the opposition to the left.

California had a number successful Republican governors. The Democrat Gray Davis was a disaster. In response we got Schwarzenegger who was very much like Trump. Not honest, no real principles short of populism. He was the outsider that was going to clean things up. He had plain talk that people loved calling the Democratic opponents "girly men" - among other things. After Schwarzenegger the Republican party and conservatives were essentially destroyed. Schwarzenegger raised taxes and went "green". He was left lite - the lesser of two evils... In that very same election we had Tom McClintock running who was very conservative with common sense. But Schwarzenegger was the bright shiny thing known to the public via movies and took the vote. Sound familiar?

Now California is one party rule going hard left ever since.

Arnold was a disaster for California; not just while he was in office, but for what he caused to follow him.

[roamer_1]

Pelosi and Schumer couldn't wait to come out and announce that they had converted Trump.  It was pretty dam sickening.  And way too many people here decided that Pelosi and Schumer could be trusted to tell the truth.

It is the twitterpating right out of his own mouth that brought my decision, and his record, both of which show his intent- Which is in line, more or less, with the Democrats. Whatever deal was struck certainly cannot be fully pounded out - You are welcome to base your hopes in that if you like, but I will not.
This is Gang-of-eight, all over again.

[roamer_1]

"We’re not looking at citizenship. We’re not looking at amnesty. We're looking at allowing people to stay here." - Donald Trump

Point in fact: That IS amnesty/

[RoosGirl]

Point in fact: That IS amnesty/

Yep! And I totally get people not trusting Schumer or Pelosi coming out and saying a deal has been made, but we have confirmation right from Trump's mouth about what the terms of this deal he's looking at are; amnesty.

[Emjay]

Wishful, hopeful thinking is not a plan?

What is a plan, then? 

Dreaming of some utopian third party which is not even in its infancy, much less with an operation and a chance.

I think we should concentrate on electing more conservatives to Congress in 2018 and 2010.

We're stuck with Trump but I still have hope he will return to sanity.  At any rate, there's nothing anybody can do about that.  Except maybe, pray.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Amen to that @XenaLee   We just don't realize how much our ideas and sentiments are being shaped by the media and the media has become our enemy.

We try to ignore it, but it permeates our existence and we have NO REAL WAY to know the truth.  I read Ted Cruz posts which I get on Facebook and I read Louie Gohmez, a guy I respect a lot, but how can we know the truth now.

I understand what you are saying but I respectfully disagree.

I use to have to read one of my city's two papers or be at home at 5:30 pm to watch the ABC CBS NBC PBS national news to get information.  A few thousand(?) people decided what I needed to know about the world.

Now there is cable news, talk radio, and podcasts.  There are live videocasts of events by amateur newsreporters and citizen journalists.  Internet forums and our President's favorite media of choice Tweets.  Verifiable through the use of our eyes and the exercise of our brains.

The news comes to us now.

...take these 2 tweets for instance...

Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....

...They have been in our country for many years through no fault of their own - brought in by parents at young age. Plus BIG border security

Those tweets were sent to me by the President.  That is a fact anybody can now verify.  Nobody disputes this.

These tweets reveal President Trump's stand on DACA, and this Never Trumper agrees with him 100%, because I believe these are his real thoughts...not promoting his brand, not pandering to his audience...but his real heart and I'm right there with him.  I don't want to throw those people out. 

I'm also a big fan of the Russian sanctions the President signed into law, but that is another post.