Tidal wave of support for Colorado baker hits Supreme Court

[Cyber Liberty]

So much bigotry is defended and excused on the basis of religion.  I for one am sick and tired of it - and I'll bet Jesus Christ would be too.   

He would certainly be tired of your attempting to shoehorn leftist philosophy into those twisted interpretations of His Word.  "If you were a Christian you would accept (insert Socialist dogma here)."

[RoosGirl]

@Jazzhead

Careful there.  You've rejected Jesus on numerous occasions and now claim to know what he would do.

Jesus taught us to love the dinner but hate the sin.  Participating in a gay marriage is blashpehemes and sinful.

Chicken dinner?

[driftdiver]

Chicken dinner?

Dang phone.   

[RoosGirl]

 

Dang phone.   

   Thought things were getting a little tense on this thread.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

You know, I am finally going to have to admit that it is refreshing to have a vocal lib part of our blog.

It serves as a reminder of the fight we are up against, and shows how perverted some can be when it comes to interpretation of what is within the Constitution.

It also shows how libs try to convince people - by stretching the truth and by incessant repeated bites that if repeated enough seem to morph fantasy into the truth.

What a lib like this also does is solidify a conservative's rationale in rejecting liberal doctrine, as my fellow GBR offer many convincing arguments on why that doctrine needs rejection.  It also demonstrates how a lib simply refuses to answer legitimate comments that he knows he cannot answer.

Well done, lib.

[Smokin Joe]

"Crap" you say?   You go on and on and on about "advertised service" and you've have it explained many times to you why it was not an "advertised service."  In fact, the "victims" you refer to in this case went out of their way to avoid other bakers who would have met their needs, just to pin something on this one.  Typical of your breed, actually, that Fluke chick who went to Georgetown to study soley for the purpose of suing them over their Birth Control policy is another example.

For those who don't really understand the irony of the Fluke thing, Georgetown was founded by a Jesuit, as a Catholic University, a Church which is generally against contraception by artificial means.
So having a Law Student from there testify for the ACA because she allegedly could not afford contraceptives was a real slap in the face to the heritage of the institution and the Church, too.

[INVAR]

You know, I am finally going to have to admit that it is refreshing to have a vocal lib part of our blog.

It serves as a reminder of the fight we are up against, and shows how perverted some can be when it comes to interpretation of what is within the Constitution.

It also shows how libs try to convince people - by stretching the truth and by incessant repeated bites that if repeated enough seem to morph fantasy into the truth.

What a lib like this also does is solidify a conservative's rationale in rejecting liberal doctrine, as my fellow GBR offer many convincing arguments on why that doctrine needs rejection.  It also demonstrates how a lib simply refuses to answer legitimate comments that he knows he cannot answer.

Well done, lib.

Which is why I am perfectly happy we have a resident Hedonist and Leftist to become such a good fodder for target practice against the liberal arguments.

[XenaLee]

For those who don't really understand the irony of the Fluke thing, Georgetown was founded by a Jesuit, as a Catholic University, a Church which is generally against contraception by artificial means.
So having a Law Student from there testify for the ACA because she allegedly could not afford contraceptives was a real slap in the face to the heritage of the institution and the Church, too.

As.... fully intended by the rabid, radical left.  It was a twofer for them.

[XenaLee]

You know, I am finally going to have to admit that it is refreshing to have a vocal lib part of our blog.

It serves as a reminder of the fight we are up against, and shows how perverted some can be when it comes to interpretation of what is within the Constitution.

It also shows how libs try to convince people - by stretching the truth and by incessant repeated bites that if repeated enough seem to morph fantasy into the truth.

What a lib like this also does is solidify a conservative's rationale in rejecting liberal doctrine, as my fellow GBR offer many convincing arguments on why that doctrine needs rejection.  It also demonstrates how a lib simply refuses to answer legitimate comments that he knows he cannot answer.

Well done, lib.

Exactly.   The token lib is a perfect and ongoing illustration and reminder of why we're fighting these leftist cretins and what we are fighting for.... ie an America that is NOT ruled by those that think in that same warped and twisted fashion.

 

[roamer_1]

So much bigotry is defended and excused on the basis of religion.  I for one am sick and tired of it - and I'll bet Jesus Christ would be too.   

Yeah... if you are speaking of the religion of socialism, you'd be right.
Yeshua in no way sanctions homosexual activity. No doubt he loves homosexuals, and hopes they would find peace in teshuva, but to think he would endorse their activity is just stone dead wrong.

[Jazzhead]

Exactly.   The token lib is a perfect and ongoing illustration and reminder of why we're fighting these leftist cretins and what we are fighting for.... ie an America that is NOT ruled by those that think in that same warped and twisted fashion.

 

I have to smile - I've had the conservative/fascist tag hung on me so many times over the years that it's refreshing, sorta, to be slammed as a "liberal" on this board.   The fact is I've voted Republican my entire adult life.  But my preference for pragmatism over ideology - and, yeah, I admit, an absolute aversion to bigotry in all shapes and forms - gets me tagged with the Mark of the Beast around here.

Oh well.   Agree or disagree, thanks for reading what I have to say. 

[roamer_1]

He would certainly be tired of your attempting to shoehorn leftist philosophy into those twisted interpretations of His Word.  "If you were a Christian you would accept (insert Socialist dogma here)."

Twisted is apt.

Twisting Torah to suit oneself is the definition of wickedness.

[Sanguine]

I have to smile - I've had the conservative/fascist tag hung on me so many times over the years that it's refreshing, sorta, to be slammed as a "liberal" on this board.   ...

Jazzhead, I find that impossible to believe. 

[Jazzhead]

Yeshua in no way sanctions homosexual activity. No doubt he loves homosexuals, and hopes they would find peace in teshuva, but to think he would endorse their activity is just stone dead wrong.

 

Since when is Jack Phillips the anointed representative of "Yeshua"?   You really think "Yeshua" is cheering this yokel on?   

This is, let's not forget, all about baking a lousy cake.   Better to fight it all the way to the Supreme Court rather than bake a cake for a homosexual couple.   

Do folks outside the cocoon of discussion boards like this realize how petty and mean this baker appears?   

[Jazzhead]

Jazzhead, I find that impossible to believe.

Everything's relative, you know.   Where are you from?   I'm from Philly - where conservatives - both of us  - catch hell from the liberals all the time.   

[INVAR]

Do folks outside the cocoon of discussion boards like this realize how petty and mean this baker appears?

Ask us if we care.

To the world and to the wicked, the things of God are but foolishness and evil in themselves according to the morality of men.

[Sanguine]

Everything's relative, you know.   Where are you from?   I'm from Philly - where conservatives - both of us  - catch hell from the liberals all the time.

Now, see that's one of those things that make it hard to believe that you get flack for being conservative.  You may be slightly to the right of some leftists, but that does not make you a conservative. 

And, all that relativity talk - that's not a conservative idea, as isn't the idea that location determines whether one is or isn't a conservative. 

I had hoped that you would have picked up on some of these concepts during your time here, but you seem much more interested in re-defining conservatism (and marriage) to suit your own desires than to learn anything from this fairly diverse and well-informed group of posters here.  It's up to you to take advantage of opportunities or not, much as many here use your comments to hone and sharpen their conservative ideals.

[INVAR]

But my preference for pragmatism over ideology - and, yeah, I admit, an absolute aversion to bigotry in all shapes and forms - gets me tagged with the Mark of the Beast around here.

The fact you push the mechanism that one may not buy or sell or engage in making a living if they do not think and act according to the demands of perversion, are most definitely a Mark of the Beast.

Because that is exactly how it operates according to scripture, when wickedness abounds and righteousness is hated to the point that the people of Yah are persecuted to death and slaughtered en masse by those pushing the kind of evil you push.  Jesus foretells a Slaughter and evil of His people so great, that if those days are not cut short, none will be left alive.  For our sake those days will be cut short.

So we observe the signs of the times and recognize that the kinds of perversion and the manner in which you want them imposed - is indeed the very thing that will become a vehicle of mass slaughter against anyone who holds fast to the bible.

And people pushing evil and perversion like you, who in the name of 'ending bigotry' - will be the very ones to cheerlead and push for that mass slaughter.

[Smokin Joe]

Since when is Jack Phillips the anointed representative of "Yeshua"?   You really think "Yeshua" is cheering this yokel on?   

This is, let's not forget, all about baking a lousy cake.   Better to fight it all the way to the Supreme Court rather than bake a cake for a homosexual couple.   

Do folks outside the cocoon of discussion boards like this realize how petty and mean this baker appears?

It isn't about baking a lousy cake. Someone with no morals might have done just that. Instead, the baker refused to do a job. It's about forcing someone to channel their creative energies, skill, and talent into creating something to celebrate something they feel is JUST WRONG, and can back that with centuries old religious scripture bolstering long held beliefs.

Would they have gone to a Muslim Baker for a "wedding cake" for a homosexual union, knowing the Islamic teachings about homosexuality? Or instead of winning the 'head in the gutter prize' or racing to the ground from the roof of tall buildings, they decided they could sue the Christians for simply not baking it, (a civil and nonviolent refusal).

Doubtless, the baker was specifically targeted for his beliefs. There were other bakers around, and one of them likely would have welcomed the business. This was a premeditated assault on the Religious liberty guaranteed by the First Amendment, and the First Amendment Right to speak freely through his art--or NOT SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

There is a law against conspiring to deprive someone of fundamental civil rights, and I would say two out of the protected Rights in the First Amendment qualify. 18 U.S. Code § 241
There is another law which covers deprivation of Rights under color of Law: 18 U.S. Code § 242

I'm sure a shrewd attorney could turn the tables in this case.

In any sane court, the enumerated right to freely hold, and practice according to, his Religious beliefs and the enumerated and sui juris right to freedom to express as he sees fit (including not at all) through his trade work in any given instance, should trump the court decreed 'right' to coerce others to act against their religious beliefs or create something to 'celebrate' a union they find abhorrent. 

If it can be shown to the satisfaction of the court (and there are Civil provisions as well, where a mere preponderance of evidence is needed, not reasonable doubt) that the 'couple' specifically targeted the baker because of his Christian beliefs, I owuld thing the Baker would be able to sue all the parties who have worked together, with malice and forethought, to violate his Civil Rights.

[Jazzhead]

Now, see that's one of those things that make it hard to believe that you get flack for being conservative.  You may be slightly to the right of some leftists, but that does not make you a conservative. 

And, all that relativity talk - that's not a conservative idea, as isn't the idea that location determines whether one is or isn't a conservative. 

I had hoped that you would have picked up on some of these concepts during your time here, but you seem much more interested in re-defining conservatism (and marriage) to suit your own desires than to learn anything from this fairly diverse and well-informed group of posters here.  It's up to you to take advantage of opportunities or not, much as many here use your comments to hone and sharpen their conservative ideals.

I enjoy the dialogue on this board, and do learn a lot from the members here.   I've been participating on conservative forums ever since the old Town Hall board more than a dozen years ago.   Yes, I'm a conservative, but I'm of the old school, Northeastern variety.   And yes, I tend to be more "moderate" on social issues, and abhor bigotry.  So I'm less in step with folks here on issues like same sex marriage and religious tribalism and prejudice.  I've had too many friends, family members and colleagues who've been harmed by religious intolerance.  So, yeah, I speak out.  I've left the Church over it.  But I love Jesus Christ.     

[roamer_1]

Since when is Jack Phillips the anointed representative of "Yeshua"?   You really think "Yeshua" is cheering this yokel on?   

I am not the one who dragged Yeshua into this mess, but if you want my opinion on it - Yes, I think Yeshua would be happy with his disciple, who has the bold faith in YHWH to stand upon the Word.

This is, let's not forget, all about baking a lousy cake.   Better to fight it all the way to the Supreme Court rather than bake a cake for a homosexual couple.   

Right - As would I... Kinda the same sort of thing as 'not bowing down to the image of the beast'. In fact, it is EXACTLY not bowing down to the image of the beast.

Do folks outside the cocoon of discussion boards like this realize how petty and mean this baker appears?

I can tell you who most of my IRL friends think is being mean and petty. And it ain't the baker.

[Restored]

This is, let's not forget, all about baking a lousy cake.   Better to fight it all the way to the Supreme Court rather than bake a cake for a homosexual couple.   

They didn't refuse a cake to a homosexual couple. They refused to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding. If the couple had been heterosexual, they would have still refused.

[Sanguine]

I enjoy the dialogue on this board, and do learn a lot from the members here.   I've been participating on conservative forums ever since the old Town Hall board more than a dozen years ago.   Yes, I'm a conservative, but I'm of the old school, Northeastern variety.   And yes, I tend to be more "moderate" on social issues, and abhor bigotry.  So I'm less in step with folks here on issues like same sex marriage and religious tribalism and prejudice.  I've had too many friends, family members and colleagues who've been harmed by religious intolerance.  So, yeah, I speak out.  I've left the Church over it.  But I love Jesus Christ.     

OK, can you tell me something that you have learned from this forum on the topic of conservatism that you didn't know before you started posting here?  I'm feeling like we haven't been getting through at all.

Oh - and just a hint: you might want to drop all of the "intolerance and bigotry" talk.  It makes it sound like you are calling other people here that, and it makes you sound very intolerant and a bit of a bigot.

[Cyber Liberty]

I enjoy the dialogue on this board, and do learn a lot from the members here.   I've been participating on conservative forums ever since the old Town Hall board more than a dozen years ago.   Yes, I'm a conservative, but I'm of the old school, Northeastern variety.   And yes, I tend to be more "moderate" on social issues, and abhor bigotry.  So I'm less in step with folks here on issues like same sex marriage and religious tribalism and prejudice.  I've had too many friends, family members and colleagues who've been harmed by religious intolerance.  So, yeah, I speak out.  I've left the Church over it.  But I love Jesus Christ.     

Please read what @Sanguine mentioned above about the bigotry and intolerance talk.  You're needlessly irritating people and put yourself on the other side of a "he vs me" encounter.

Many here would say you're doing that by design, and it sure looks that way sometimes.

[Jazzhead]

OK, can you tell me something that you have learned from this forum on the topic of conservatism that you didn't know before you started posting here?  I'm feeling like we haven't been getting through at all.

Oh - and just a hint: you might want to drop all of the "intolerance and bigotry" talk.  It makes it sound like you are calling other people here that, and it makes you sound very intolerant and a bit of a bigot.

My only purpose here is to engage in dialogue with bright folks on political issues of the day.  I've always been a politico;  I read Goldwater's Conscience of a Conservative when I was in junior high school.  I remember on a family visit to Massachusetts I insisted on stopping and browsing around in an American Opinion bookstore.   I was far more ideological and confrontational in my younger days.   With age has come the crucial insight that most all of us, regardless of political label, want what's best for the nation.  There's nothing wrong with pragmatism, and compromise and conciliation.  Nor with being decent and accommodating to others, which is why that baker annoys me - would it have hurt him to just bake the cake he said he would?  Since when is a cake shop the proper forum for a religious crusade?   

I've gained a lot of insight from the numerous intelligent and, yes, diverse posters here.   I'm of the view that "conservatism" comes in a variety of forms,  and that the current Republican coalition is an uneasy one,  especially following the recent rise of the TEA party and the even more recent insurgency by the Trump nationalists.  Neither of these recent strains particularly speaks to me - I'm too old school for that -  but that's not what's important.    I want to see the center/right coalition that is the GOP hang together, unlike many who want to take their marbles and go a third party that adheres more closely to their view of ideological purity.   Because if it doesn't,  the path will be clear for the liberals to have their way.