Author Topic: The science behind those fire-ant rafts  (Read 1275 times)

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rangerrebew

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The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« on: September 06, 2017, 01:47:47 pm »
The science behind those fire-ant rafts
September 6, 2017

"Life likes to live," Kevin Haight said after viewing a photo of reddish-brown swirls in a floodwater eddy in southeast Texas.

Haight, a researcher in the School of Life Sciences' Social Insect Research Group at Arizona State University, was referring to tens of thousands of refugees uprooted by Hurricane Harvey.

Just not the ones you think.


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-09-science-fire-ant-rafts.html#jCp

Offline thackney

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2017, 02:35:17 pm »
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2017, 02:56:08 pm »
If the Harvey flooding wasn't bad enough:



https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/30/flotillas-of-fire-ants-add-new-layer-of-horror-to-post-harvey-flood-havoc

Flame Thrower, or a nuke...
Looks like a great place to throw naked looters...

D@mn! Wouldn't spraying them with a solution of Calgon or some other surface-tension breaker sink the rafts?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 02:57:18 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

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C S Lewis

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 04:28:42 pm »
Looks like a great place to throw naked looters...

D@mn! Wouldn't spraying them with a solution of Calgon or some other surface-tension breaker sink the rafts?

It's funny...those were both thoughts going through my mind before reading your comments.  GMTA.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 08:53:55 pm »
It's funny...those were both thoughts going through my mind before reading your comments.  GMTA.
888high58888

I think If I saw that, I'd try a garden sprayer with dishwashing detergent, ethanol (Heet), shampoo (sodium laureth sulphate), and a few other odds and ends in rotation to see what works to cause the capillary action of water to be enhanced so the bloody things would sink and drown.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 09:04:43 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2017, 01:51:34 am »
The pic looks like something out of the 1954 film "The Naked Jungle" with Charlton Heston as a South American plantation owner fighting off army ants...

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2017, 02:16:03 am »
Napalm them from orbit.  It's the only way to be sure.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2017, 03:16:46 am »
888high58888

I think If I saw that, I'd try a garden sprayer with dishwashing detergent, ethanol (Heet), shampoo (sodium laureth sulphate), and a few other odds and ends in rotation to see what works to cause the capillary action of water to be enhanced so the bloody things would sink and drown.

 888high58888

Hadn't thought of the shampoo route, and I think you'd need a bunch of ethanol.  How about diatomaceous earth? I've never had good luck with it, but perhaps there it would work.

Or go classic...a giant Fresnel lens! Or parabolic mirror from shore!  Lasers!  Greek fire!
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“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2017, 04:16:47 am »
888high58888

Hadn't thought of the shampoo route, and I think you'd need a bunch of ethanol.  How about diatomaceous earth? I've never had good luck with it, but perhaps there it would work.

Or go classic...a giant Fresnel lens! Or parabolic mirror from shore!  Lasers!  Greek fire!
Well, the idea of a surfactant is to get the water to invade the pore spaces filled with air that keep them afloat. Sink the nasty buggerers.
Of course, fire would expand those air bubbles, possibly breaking up the raft, but causing the air to expand and be expelled, in part. Then when they cooled off, those which were not immolated might find the air bubbles, reduced in volume (as they cooled), provided less buoyant force and that they, too sank. However, if they could take a bit of air with them, they might survive in spite of the immersion.

Diatomaceous earth would irritate them if it got in exoskeletal joints, if it is full of pyrethrum might do some good, or could be a carrier lattice for other toxins.

I think the trick is to get their bubbles to burst or be displaced by water due to capillary action.

Kids with powerful lasers or focused sunlight might be a winner (as long as they aren't zapping each other).
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 04:17:58 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2017, 09:58:19 pm »
I got a number of those rafts onto my lawn when the water at Lake Livingston went above my bulkhead a couple of years ago.  The colonies propagated almost immediately when they hit my grass.

I used the fire and poison methods to dispatch them.

Glad I caught most of them before they spread out.
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2017, 10:19:42 pm »
888high58888

I think If I saw that, I'd try a garden sprayer with dishwashing detergent, ethanol (Heet), shampoo (sodium laureth sulphate), and a few other odds and ends in rotation to see what works to cause the capillary action of water to be enhanced so the bloody things would sink and drown.

Coolness.  Let me know what works.  I'll be busy getting the bleep out of there.
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 01:49:46 am »
Does Terry work on them? I love that stuff!
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“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2017, 02:20:54 am »
Coolness.  Let me know what works.  I'll be busy getting the bleep out of there.
I'm 70 miles from Canada, not anywhere near the Gulf, or I would.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 02:21:11 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2017, 06:36:19 am »
I'm 70 miles from Canada, not anywhere near the Gulf, or I would.
So you are preparing when the invasion hits you.

They traveled from their introduction at Mobile to where I was in Corpus Christi in the mid 70s in about 40 years.

In Australia, they were introduced in Brisbane and recently have been observed in Sydney in even a shorter time.

Guess you got a few more years to get knowledge on home remedies.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The science behind those fire-ant rafts
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2017, 07:09:09 am »
So you are preparing when the invasion hits you.

They traveled from their introduction at Mobile to where I was in Corpus Christi in the mid 70s in about 40 years.

In Australia, they were introduced in Brisbane and recently have been observed in Sydney in even a shorter time.

Guess you got a few more years to get knowledge on home remedies.
Well, it will take some serious sea level rise before they can raft in. We do have them here, just not in such quantities (and the nests are burned out as soon as they are found).

A lot depends on whether the ants are displacement floaters (the ant weighs less than an equal volume of water), if they are surface tension floaters (like a needle floating on water, buoyed by the surface tension), or if interlocking creates small pore throats in the mass which respond to surface tension and trap air (like bubbles in an oil reservoir). If the latter two, the addition of surfactants to reduce surface tension (wetting agents) could cause the raft to sink. Otherwise, the trick would be to coat the ants with something that adhered to them and reduced their buoyancy to the point they sank.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 07:16:52 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis