Author Topic: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis  (Read 3448 times)

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2017, 12:26:59 am »
I'm no fan of Joel Osteen. Some might call him a false teacher. But there's more to the story than what was spread on social media. We should be better than those take a rumor and start spreading it around as fact just because we don't like the target. We're not CNN or Slate, after all.

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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2017, 12:55:27 am »
Osteen is a ravening wolf.

If I were to set myself up in this religion thing and had a facility like this there are a couple of things I would do.

Get with the city fathers and have it designated as a point for whatever it was needed for in a disaster.

Evacuation, rally point, shelter, distribution. Whatever it was needed for. Or just have it available and open as, and this one is pretty unthinkable, a CHURCH.

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Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2017, 01:54:48 am »
Count me as one more that dislikes Osteen and his name it and claim it false doctrin, but from what I have read and watched today, I would say this has been obout 95% Fake news.....blown way out of proportion by Christian hating Libirals.
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Offline HoustonSam

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2017, 02:02:55 am »
I live in the western suburbs of Houston.  It's pretty much a Biblical scale disaster here, but you all already know that.

I'm not a fan of Joel Osteen, but I can't blame him or others in his organization for not getting their facility open.  If it's true that there is no kitchen or showers, and I believe that given my understanding of his organization, then it's not a good place to shelter a large number of people for an undetermined length of time.  My church out in the suburbs sheltered a bunch of Katrina refugees and you do need appropriate facilities.  We had to enlist the high school across the street to provide shower access; there is no high school across the street from Osteen's facility.  We do have a kitchen and plenty of nearby fast food and we managed to keep them all fed for a month while we helped them find housing and jobs, but it was a huge effort.  Osteen doesn't really run an organization that many of us recognize as a church, so he doesn't have the kind of plant infrastructure that a church would have, and that's the kind of infrastructure that can serve as a long term shelter.  If it were a matter simply of getting people out of the wind and rain for a few hours that's one thing, but the situation here requires much more than that.  Had he thrown open his doors it could have been Superdome II.

Furthermore even if his facility did have the appropriate capabilities, the city has been paralyzed.  How many people does it take to open and run his facility and how were they supposed to get into Greenway Plaza when every intersection and underpass in Houston has been completely impassable due to water accumulation?  If they were actually emergency services personnel then maybe we could expect them to have the resources and accountability to handle the conditions which have been prevailing here, but they aren't.  They aren't even a church, which might have a mission that motivated and equipped a similar service ethic.  Believers find plenty to criticize in Osteen's presentation, but I can't expect him to be something he's not or to do something for which he is not physically equipped.

On the flip side one could argue that Jim "Mattress Mac" MacIngvale's stores aren't equipped to be shelters, but he opened them as shelters.  And apart from the expected scale of the relief effort that Mac or Osteen might be assumed to provide, that would be a fair rebuttal.  While Mac certainly advocates positive thinking I am forced to conclude that he shows his faith by his works.  And Joel Osteen does as well.

Having said all that, I find absolutely hilarious the satirical article about Osteen sailing his yacht through the flooded streets of Houston and throwing out copies of his book while shouting shallow aphorisms of positive thinking.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 02:05:25 am by HoustonSam »
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Offline Just_Victor

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2017, 02:07:53 am »
Agreed.

What makes me suspicious of the claims of flooding in the building is the fact that he's now saying they will use the church as a collection center for supplies for the flood victims.

If it's safe enough to use as a collection point...why isn't it safe enough to use it as a shelter?

Anyone who ever went to an event in the Summit will remember that the floor of the arena is below ground level.  The parking garage always flooded, and there was an  underground pedestrian walkway that allowed water into the sublevels of the building.  It was prone to flooding.

The pics of the water appear to be genuine.  And last I read he is going to open up to use as a shelter, when the building is in a condition to do so.

I'm no fan of Osteen, but I am a fan of the truth.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 02:11:09 am by Just_Victor »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2017, 01:55:56 pm »
Anyone who ever went to an event in the Summit will remember that the floor of the arena is below ground level.  The parking garage always flooded, and there was an  underground pedestrian walkway that allowed water into the sublevels of the building.  It was prone to flooding.

The pics of the water appear to be genuine.  And last I read he is going to open up to use as a shelter, when the building is in a condition to do so.

I'm no fan of Osteen, but I am a fan of the truth.

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2017, 01:59:55 pm »
Anyone who ever went to an event in the Summit will remember that the floor of the arena is below ground level.  The parking garage always flooded, and there was an  underground pedestrian walkway that allowed water into the sublevels of the building.  It was prone to flooding.

The pics of the water appear to be genuine.  And last I read he is going to open up to use as a shelter, when the building is in a condition to do so.

I'm no fan of Osteen, but I am a fan of the truth.

Thank you, @Just_Victor, for confirming what I'd heard about the church configuration.  That was the way I heard it, after the initial attacks. 

Your last line sums it up for me, too.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2017, 02:04:32 pm »
Anyone who ever went to an event in the Summit will remember that the floor of the arena is below ground level.  The parking garage always flooded, and there was an  underground pedestrian walkway that allowed water into the sublevels of the building.  It was prone to flooding.

The pics of the water appear to be genuine.  And last I read he is going to open up to use as a shelter, when the building is in a condition to do so.

I'm no fan of Osteen, but I am a fan of the truth.
Thanks for clearing that up. Without sanitary or cooking facilities, the place might as well just be a large barn, and if it id having flooding problems, is not suitable for a shelter site except in the worst of circumstances.
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Offline The_Reader_David

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2017, 02:25:18 pm »
If it's safe enough to use as a collection point...why isn't it safe enough to use it as a shelter?

Lack of toilet facilities?  Enough toilets for the congregation for an hour or two on Sunday won't be enough for the capacity as a shelter for days on end.  Osteen is, as other posters noted a "ravening wolf" in spiritual terms, but I'm not sure I fault him for not wanting his building to become a repeat of the Superdome during Katrina.

I have childhood recollections of helping cook for the people who sheltered in my father's church during the flooding in PA during Hurricane Agnes in '72, but we only took in those we could house in the smallish parish hall (though we cooked for more, who'd move in with neighbors on higher ground).  Of course, I was too young when it happened to have a clear recollection of the logistical considerations my father dealt with.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2017, 02:31:01 pm »
Quote
Enough toilets for the congregation for an hour or two on Sunday won't be enough for the capacity as a shelter for days on end.

The place seats close to 15K for a Sunday service.  You're telling me there's not enough toilets if the place takes in a couple thousand people?

Somewhere in the $95 million he poured into the place to upgrade it after the Rockets moved out there had to be construction of enough toilet facilities to handle a full house to hear Osteen preach right?
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2017, 02:32:03 pm »
We've got to be very careful of envy. 

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2017, 02:35:23 pm »
Osteen was interviewed this morning, but I didn't watch.  He started talking and I turned off the TV.
It's rare that the sound of someone's voice/manner of speaking makes me cringe so much.  He's intolerable.

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2017, 02:36:04 pm »
We've got to be very careful of envy.

Agreed.  And I'm neither here nor there on Osteen.  Posted the story yesterday because of what 'd been reading on the news about what was going on...figured it would be a good topic of discussion here.

But I can see where people are leery of the message he preaches. 
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2017, 02:36:49 pm »
Osteen was interviewed this morning, but I didn't watch.  He started talking and I turned off the TV.
It's rare that the sound of someone's voice/manner of speaking makes me cringe so much.  He's intolerable.

Fox is doing a good job of trying to help him out of the public relations hole he dig for himself.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2017, 02:38:26 pm »
According to Steve Deace's Twitter, an Osteen spokesman said they hadn't opened the church because "no one asked them to."


Here in my area, Thomas Road Baptist Church, which is run by Jonathan Falwell, is quick to open its doors in time of need.  A few years ago, we had a "derecho" (straight line wind) come through, and thousands were left without power for over a week during a bad heat wave.  TR let people come for as long as they wanted, and the university next door (Liberty) opened its dorms to house them.

Well....at least they didn't say that God hadn't asked them to (open the church).  That's something.   :laugh:

But....I was under the impression that Christians are supposed to volunteer to help others, not wait to be asked.
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Offline Just_Victor

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2017, 02:53:17 pm »
Osteen was interviewed this morning, but I didn't watch.  He started talking and I turned off the TV.
It's rare that the sound of someone's voice/manner of speaking makes me cringe so much.  He's intolerable.

I can't stand watching him blink.  It's unnatural.
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Offline anubias

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2017, 02:55:58 pm »
The place seats close to 15K for a Sunday service.  You're telling me there's not enough toilets if the place takes in a couple thousand people?

Somewhere in the $95 million he poured into the place to upgrade it after the Rockets moved out there had to be construction of enough toilet facilities to handle a full house to hear Osteen preach right?

I can't speak for the number of toilets Olsteen installed after acquiring the Summit, but I can speak to the lack of toilets when it was the Summit.  I remember cursing the insanely long lines to get into the women's restrooms there.  The Summit was always sorely lacking in adequate toilet facilities.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2017, 02:57:41 pm »
I read an article that said the city asked him NOT to open it.   Then the other shelters filled to capacity and they might have asked them to open.
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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2017, 03:03:21 pm »
I can't stand watching him blink.  It's unnatural.

I can't stand him period!  100% con man IMHO.
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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2017, 03:07:42 pm »
I can't stand watching him blink.  It's unnatural.

When you look at someone you love, your eyes blink more often so it demonstrates affection. So when people see him blinking at them, they feel like he loves them. It's an old carny trick.
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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2017, 03:09:00 pm »
But....I was under the impression that Christians are supposed to volunteer to help others, not wait to be asked.
In a circumstance like this, I think any congregation would first ask the civil authorities whether another shelter was needed or desired, and then try to coordinate efforts.
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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2017, 03:12:50 pm »
I can't speak for the number of toilets Olsteen installed after acquiring the Summit, but I can speak to the lack of toilets when it was the Summit.  I remember cursing the insanely long lines to get into the women's restrooms there.  The Summit was always sorely lacking in adequate toilet facilities.

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2017, 03:17:24 pm »
Osteen is a smarmy little rat bastard pretty boy with fake Hair and store teeth and smile who parades around in thousand dollar suits enriching himself off of others in the business of religion.  He's a con man.  A fake. A phony.

Other than that I'm sure he's a fine upstanding young man with good intentions and a heart of other peoples gold.

Offline Restored

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2017, 03:19:16 pm »
But....I was under the impression that Christians are supposed to volunteer to help others, not wait to be asked.

No. Christians are supposed to be Saved by Grace. We should ALL volunteer to help others.
Kinda odd that we didn't see any criticism of Mosques or government buildings not being open.
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Offline verga

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Re: Joel Osteen shuts megachurch amid flooding crisis
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2017, 06:51:42 pm »
According to Steve Deace's Twitter, an Osteen spokesman said they hadn't opened the church because "no one asked them to."

Here in my area, Thomas Road Baptist Church, which is run by Jonathan Falwell, is quick to open its doors in time of need.  A few years ago, we had a "derecho" (straight line wind) come through, and thousands were left without power for over a week during a bad heat wave.  TR let people come for as long as they wanted, and the university next door (Liberty) opened its dorms to house them.
@CatherineofAragon When we lived up north we had an Area association of Churches. The different denominations got together and each handled a different need. One was the Clothing, another food etc.. We had a bad ice storm and anyone that was in need of temporary shelter went to the NEAREST Church. regardless of denomination. They were all set up with food and a place to sleep for anyone.
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