Author Topic: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon  (Read 4919 times)

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2017, 01:29:59 am »

Sorry, but when the court tells you stop doing something you stop doing it. He could have appealed the case, but maybe he was to busy looking for Obama's birth records.

When a court tells you to do something against the law, you should do it?  I see it very differently.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2017, 01:30:06 am »

Sorry, but when the court tells you stop doing something you stop doing it. He could have appealed the case, but maybe he was to busy looking for Obama's birth records.

BS!  Who made judges Kings?
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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2017, 02:03:43 am »

Sorry, but when the court tells you stop doing something you stop doing it. He could have appealed the case, but maybe he was to busy looking for Obama's birth records.

Maybe Trump didn't think Arpaio should spend the rest of his life's savings trying to stay out of prison?  Ever think of that?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2017, 02:04:29 am »
When a court tells you to do something against the law, you should do it?  I see it very differently.

Sorry @Sanguine.  I answered the wrong post there....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2017, 02:07:15 am »
Sorry @Sanguine.  I answered the wrong post there....

No problem.   ^-^

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2017, 02:17:21 am »
I agree with Ryan.. There is a thing called a Rule of Law.  So was it OK that Andrew Jackson ignored the Supreme Court?  Was it OK that Gov Faubus ignored the Supreme Court in the 1950's ? Arpaio could have appeal the ruling..

Arpaio had a constitutional right to a trial by a jury of his peers.  That right was denied to him ...and he was being persecuted by a Clinton appointed rogue judge.... a DemocRat.  The Rule of Law was being upheld BY Arpaio....immigration laws on the books...even while being broken by Obama.  I would have to say that justice has now been served via that pardon.  If anyone deserved a pardon....it was Arpaio.  Screw Ryan, McCain and anyone ELSE that has a problem with it.

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2017, 02:18:38 am »
Arpaio had a constitutional right to a trial by a jury of his peers.  That right was denied to him ...and he was being persecuted by a Clinton appointed rogue judge.... a DemocRat.  The Rule of Law was being upheld BY Arpaio....immigration laws on the books...even while being broken by Obama.  I would have to say that justice has now been served via that pardon.  If anyone deserved a pardon....it was Arpaio.  Screw Ryan, McCain and anyone ELSE that has a problem with it.

GEEEZ! Don't confuse him with FACTS!
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2017, 02:49:53 am »
Since the contempt of court was because he defied a judge's order that he stop enforcing federal immigration law it seems to me that he could not justifiably be found in contempt.

Does a county sheriff have jurisdiction to enforce federal law?

Does a county sheriff have jurisdiction to ignore a legal court order?
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2017, 03:06:19 am »
Does a county sheriff have jurisdiction to enforce federal law?

Does a county sheriff have jurisdiction to ignore a legal court order?

Should a county sheriff not take an illegal alien into custody?

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2017, 03:09:32 am »
Arpaio had a constitutional right to a trial by a jury of his peers.

I don't agree with Baldwin v. New York (1970) and the other case law on this, but it's been found that for "petty" crimes where the max imprisonment is 6 months or less, the Sixth doesn't apply.*  And he acknowledged that idea was constitutional, though he sort of talks out both sides of his mouth:

"While Defendant Arpaio acknowledges that there is no constitutional right
to a jury trial for defendants charged with “petty” offenses where the maximum sentence
does not exceed six months imprisonment
, “[t[he right to a trial by jury is a great
constitutional right,” and is “only in exceptional cases and for specified causes [should] a
party…be deprived of it.”[PDF]


Quote
The Rule of Law was being upheld BY Arpaio....immigration laws on the books...even while being broken by Obama.

Is it really legal for a county sheriff deputy to cite a federal law?

Would it be fine if a sheriff decided to treat blacks differently? 

What if whites were treated differently if they drove through Chicago? 

Blondes?

Please, cite me the LAW that allows that, if we're following the Rule of Law.

Quote
Screw Ryan, McCain and anyone ELSE that has a problem with it.

I suppose I could say "Screw you, too!" but I won't return your words.

He was in criminal contempt...i.e., treating the law and the court with contempt. 

*IANAL
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2017, 03:10:30 am »
Should a county sheriff not take an illegal alien into custody?

Well, Federal law isn't even the question.  Treating someone differently based on ethnicity isn't enshrined in Federal law as acceptable, regardless.
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2017, 03:29:01 am »
Well, Federal law isn't even the question.  Treating someone differently based on ethnicity isn't enshrined in Federal law as acceptable, regardless.

The trouble with that is the people coming across the border illegally aren't white or black.  I want the immigration laws enforced.  If some people's feelings get hurt because of that, so be it.  Telling the sheriff that he can't enforce federal immigration law because it's not a crime only a violation (which is what the first judge did) is BS.

Offline Gefn

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2017, 04:10:18 am »
@Suppressed darling,

Blondes ARE treated diffrently in life. That's a fact.

Why do you think I dyed my hair?  I got sick and tired of people thinking I was dumb because I was blonde and had a big chest.

Dying my hair and getting a reduction was the best thing I ever did in my adult life.   
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2017, 04:59:43 am »
I can't understand Ryan and DeadMcCain getting upset that President Trump pardoned Joe Arpaio, when Obama freed Gitmo terrorists.

Most people are happy about this pardon.

Even if Ryan is not, why does he have to speak out publicly about it.  That's just wrong.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2017, 05:00:54 am »
@Suppressed darling,

Blondes ARE treated diffrently in life. That's a fact.

Why do you think I dyed my hair?  I got sick and tired of people thinking I was dumb because I was blonde and had a big chest.

Dying my hair and getting a reduction was the best thing I ever did in my adult life.

Freya !!!!  Do you know how many women are trying to look the way you used to?
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2017, 05:02:35 am »
Arpaio had a constitutional right to a trial by a jury of his peers.  That right was denied to him ...and he was being persecuted by a Clinton appointed rogue judge.... a DemocRat.  The Rule of Law was being upheld BY Arpaio....immigration laws on the books...even while being broken by Obama.  I would have to say that justice has now been served via that pardon.  If anyone deserved a pardon....it was Arpaio.  Screw Ryan, McCain and anyone ELSE that has a problem with it.

Amen, Sister, and Ryan and McCain are despicable for outwardly opposing it.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2017, 01:09:29 pm »
Notice how the republican Party now parrots the Democrat POV and talking points almost exclusively.  More proof the UniParty label fits.

They even just passed a resolution condemning 'White Supremacists" but no mention of Anitfa or BLM.


And yet, on a nearly daily basis, you continually undermine the one man out there fighting against the RINO's...because he, apparently, doesn't pass your purity test for absolute moral narcissism. Examples abound, of course, with this being one....another being Trump's condemnation of the violence from "both" sides in Charlottesville being savagely attacked by useful idiots on the right. The Romney-Bush-Kristol "uniparty" types are at Trump's throat BECAUSE he is pushing a truly conservative agenda...imperfect though it might be to the moral narcissists around here...but for god's sakes get off the sidelines and fight for the man who is fighting for real conservatism (yes, that man is Donald J Trump).
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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2017, 01:14:26 pm »
Pardoning Arpaio is another piece of stupid Trump theater.  A little bit of pointless red meat for the Trump worshippers that needlessly inflames everyone else without accomplishing much of any substance.  No new policies of any real meaning were implemented and no real goals were advanced. 

What a pointless waste. 

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2017, 01:22:18 pm »
Pardoning Arpaio is another piece of stupid Trump theater.  A little bit of pointless red meat for the Trump worshippers that needlessly inflames everyone else without accomplishing much of any substance.  No new policies of any real meaning were implemented and no real goals were advanced. 

What a pointless waste.


Well he did help his fellow Birther.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2017, 01:32:58 pm »
Pardoning Arpaio is another piece of stupid Trump theater.  A little bit of pointless red meat for the Trump worshippers that needlessly inflames everyone else without accomplishing much of any substance.  No new policies of any real meaning were implemented and no real goals were advanced. 

What a pointless waste.

It appears you're lacking an understanding of what's happened @Oceander ... so visit the link below and read the full article.  Maybe you'll have something substantive to add to the discussion afterwards.   

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,278667.0.html


« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 01:33:49 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2017, 01:36:09 pm »
It appears you're lacking a understanding of what's happened... stop by at the link below and read the full article.  Maybe you'll have something substantive to add to the discussion afterwards.   

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,278667.0.html

I'm not lacking anything relevant:  Trump pardoned someone who turned his back on his sworn duty to obey the lawful order of a court, simply because the Trump worshippers needed a little nosh to keep their faith up. 

Other than inflaming everyone other than the Trump faithful, what important policy goal has been materially advanced by his pardon?

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2017, 01:41:35 pm »
I'm not lacking anything relevant:  Trump pardoned someone who turned his back on his sworn duty to obey the lawful order of a court, simply because the Trump worshippers needed a little nosh to keep their faith up. 

Other than inflaming everyone other than the Trump faithful, what important policy goal has been materially advanced by his pardon?

The 'policy goal' to let everyone know that Barack Obama is no longer POTUS when it comes to enforcing current immigration laws in border States.

It was another Barack Obama activist judge that placed Judge Arpaio in contempt.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2017, 01:47:45 pm »
I'm not lacking anything relevant:  Trump pardoned someone who turned his back on his sworn duty to obey the lawful order of a court, simply because the Trump worshippers needed a little nosh to keep their faith up. 

Other than inflaming everyone other than the Trump faithful, what important policy goal has been materially advanced by his pardon?

Having lived in Arizona these past 18 years, I can confidently inform you that you've no idea what you are talking about. Arpaio was ordered to halt certain types of immigration checks on certain vehicle and other stops by a WILDLY left wing judge with a wildly left wing agenda...under the higher purview of the wildly left wing 9th circuit. Rather than turning his back on his duty, Arpaio continued to have officers run immigration checks on all stops...technically in violation of the judge's order. As such, he was charged with contempt...akin to say, Ghandi being arrested for selling salt without British taxation....doing the right thing in violation of the technicality of a bad law. That said, laws are laws and Arpaio was correctly tried for contempt...and correctly found guilty. Proving that a man who stands up to a bad law must be willing to face the punishment for doing what's right....as such...the President determined that the rightness of Arpaio's actions was greater than the necessity for imposing punishment on him for voiding bad law. As such, and also considering the strong past service and age of the Sheriff, he justly granted a pardon.

The purpose is clear with this pardon...that a legal standard imposed by a wildly left wing court can and should be overturned in a "legal" manner by a president who is constitutionally empowered to do so. He also makes the point...again...that we are a nation of laws AND that we are a nation with a right to establish and maintain our own border/immigration enforcement. All strongly conservative values...so which of these are you opposing?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 01:49:48 pm by Mesaclone »
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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2017, 03:10:21 pm »
Pardoning Arpaio is another piece of stupid Trump theater.  A little bit of pointless red meat for the Trump worshippers that needlessly inflames everyone else without accomplishing much of any substance.  No new policies of any real meaning were implemented and no real goals were advanced. 

What a pointless waste.

*Yawn*

oh=0164a33dc027072d52772befbb7641e7&oe=5A1A2A67
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 03:11:06 pm by Wingnut »

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Ryan breaks with Trump on Arpaio pardon
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2017, 03:12:55 pm »
*Yawn*

oh=0164a33dc027072d52772befbb7641e7&oe=5A1A2A67

Yes, that's some good perspective.