White House Sets Rules for Military Transgender Ban

[edpc]

Are these people skilled and competent, or did they advance in rank based on political considerations given to a very small special interest group?

See the story of Kara Hultgreen.  Trying to get a female combat pilot, instead of the best candidate, is a perfect example of that.

[TomSea]

I think there is a lot of right-wing media that is excessive, exaggerates facts, is alarmist. We must be skeptical of what they say too.

Having said that, there were the stories of a few months ago about procedures being set up or manuals already in place for women in the military not to be surprised if a male walks into the showers where they are. Those stories were unbelievable but there could be something to them. If these stories were true and there were a number of such stories, I think to most people, they would see this as being absolute nonsense. If this was part of that transgender policy in the military, to me, this is not what we need and pretty outrageous.

So, it's a bit beyond satisfying Christian social conservatives. The above was absolutely crazy.

[txradioguy]

A sop to social conservatives.  Why not get the views of military leaders?   According to the article:

The leaders...the ones with influence anyway...got there because of they share the same Liberal views as the POTUS that put them there...of course they will simply say it makes no difference to them.

Like that idiot Admiral in charge of the USCG...saying he'll openly defy an order from the CINC.

The better group to ask the question to is the guys down in the line units.  They are the ones this affects more than some perfumed prince inside the 5 sided palace on the Potomac.

Trump when this goes into effect...needs to put out that any senior commissioned officer or senior NCO unwilling to carry out this directive need to submit immediately their papers for retirement or resignation of their commission.

[txradioguy]

I think there is a lot of right-wing media that is excessive, exaggerates facts, is alarmist. We must be skeptical of what they say too.

Having said that, there were the stories of a few months ago about procedures being set up or manuals already in place for women in the military not to be surprised if a male walks into the showers where they are. Those stories were unbelievable but there could be something to them. If these stories were true and there were a number of such stories, I think to most people, they would see this as being absolute nonsense. If this was part of that transgender policy in the military, to me, this is not what we need and pretty outrageous.

So, it's a bit beyond satisfying Christian social conservatives. The above was absolutely crazy.

It's crazy...but it's actually happened.  I went through EO training to be our Brigade rep back in March...the procedures and manuals being set up and published are all true.

[Wingnut]

Like that idiot Admiral in charge of the USCG...saying he'll openly defy an order from the CINC.

Speaking of which:

Give a Non-rate three anvils locked in a padded cell, and in 10 minutes he'll lose one, break one and get the other one pregnant.

[240B]

It's crazy...but it's actually happened.  I went through EO training to be our Brigade rep back in March...the procedures and manuals being set up and published are all true.

I strongly suspect that with this new common sense admin, those manuals will change ASAP.

[txradioguy]

I strongly suspect that with this new common sense admin, those manuals will change ASAP.

I'm sure hoping so.  It was all I could do to maintain a poker face through most of that class.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

A sop to social conservatives.  Why not get the views of military leaders?   According to the article:

I am quite sure that this decision is in accordance with the views of -- at a minimum -- the SecDef and Trump's Chief of Staff.  Their views on these kind of issues were hardly a secret either within the Marine Corps or outside it.  But neither Mattis nor Kelly technically count as "the military" since they both presently occupy civilian positions, so the article may be technically accurate.  That doesn't change the reality of their extensive experience in, and knowledge, of the military and its needs.  Also, pretty sure that at least the CJCS, General Dunford, feels the exact the same way.  They're not going to say that stuff publicly because they don't want to be dragged in front of Congress, so they give advice to the President in private.

The costs, ongoing requirements for medical treatment and maintenance, the various exceptions and policies that are the subject of seminars, training, workshops, bulletins, etc.., are all a pain in the ass with zero corresponding military benefit.  There are more than enough things taking the time, attention, and focus of our military away from their core mission without adding another unnecessary one.  Obama's policy was all minus, and no plus.

The press will paint this as just Trump jamming this down the throats of the military, when the truth is that the policy is not popular within the military at all.  They simply don't speak out on it publicly because of command pressure not to do so.  But here's a poll from Military Times:

 https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2017/07/27/poll-active-duty-troops-worry-about-militarys-transgender-policies/

[edpc]

Speaking of which:

Give a Non-rate three anvils locked in a padded cell, and in 10 minutes he'll lose one, break one and get the other one pregnant.

That's some impressive hammer.

[Emjay]

Excellent news if true!

Yes, it is.

Another Obama fiasco that Trump has to get rid of.

There is no logical reason these mentally ill people should have been in the military to begin with.  Their motivations are questionable. 

The whining when they are given discharges will be heard on the moon.

[Emjay]

The leaders...the ones with influence anyway...got there because of they share the same Liberal views as the POTUS that put them there...of course they will simply say it makes no difference to them.

Like that idiot Admiral in charge of the USCG...saying he'll openly defy an order from the CINC.

The better group to ask the question to is the guys down in the line units.  They are the ones this affects more than some perfumed prince inside the 5 sided palace on the Potomac.

Trump when this goes into effect...needs to put out that any senior commissioned officer or senior NCO unwilling to carry out this directive need to submit immediately their papers for retirement or resignation of their commission.

Absolutely.  The first officer that declares publicly he will not carry out orders should be gone within the hour.  The next one tempted to do so will think twice.

It is unfair to our military people to have this ridiculous social experiment forced upon them when they are trying to protect our country.

[Wingnut]

Can we line up in front of a firing squad...  the officers... not the fruits.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Can we line up in front of a firing squad...  the officers... not the fruits.

Don't forget that the push for this policy change most likely came from Mattis and Kelly...

[Wingnut]

Don't forget that the push for this policy change most likely came from Mattis and Kelly...

Thank God for men who are men and know the difference.

[RoosGirl]

Don't forget that the push for this policy change most likely came from Mattis and Kelly...

I'll tell you what I tell my 5 year old.  "You could be right." 

[Smokin Joe]

Speaking of which:

Give a Non-rate three anvils locked in a padded cell, and in 10 minutes he'll lose one, break one and get the other one pregnant.

Check his locker/lunchbox, you'll find the missing one.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I'll tell you what I tell my 5 year old.  "You could be right."

It shouldn't do much digging into their background and prior statements to confirm that.  Then again, if you've got something against combat decorated Marine Generals, then there's probably nothing I could say to convince you otherwise anyway.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Thank God for men who are men and know the difference.

General Kelly was once the Officer in Charge of the Marine Infantry Officer's course -- the ball-buster at which women are 0-30.  He knows the difference.

[Emjay]

A sop to social conservatives.  Why not get the views of military leaders?   According to the article:

We don't need to get 'the views' of anyone to decide how the armed services need to be run.

That's the reason there are physical and psychological tests administered before one is accepted.

I don't care what these sexually confused people do on their own time, but they have no place in the armed services whose mission is to be ready and able to protect our country.

[RoosGirl]

It shouldn't do much digging into their background and prior statements to confirm that.  Then again, if you've got something against combat decorated Marine Generals, then there's probably nothing I could say to convince you otherwise anyway.

No, I have the utmost respect for Kelly and Mattis for their service.  I was just poking a little bit of fun at a statement that wanted us to "not forget" something that "most likely" happened.

[Wingnut]

We don't need to get 'the views' of anyone to decide how the armed services need to be run.

That's the reason there are physical and psychological tests administered before one is accepted.

I don't care what these sexually confused people do on their own time, but they have no place in the armed services whose mission is to be ready and able to protect our country.

Jazzy goes of track when he try's to sell his glorious notion that faggotry is the future of the world.  Well, that maybe so and  if  Richard wants to suck Dick and if Jane wants to lick Jill they are free to do it in a Target bathroom, in The post office, in colleges and universities and anywhere else in the corporate world.  But if Jill wants to be Dick or Dick wants a to be jill let them join the USO to support the troops.

[Emjay]

Jazzy goes of track when he try's to sell his glorious notion that faggotry is the future of the world.  Well, that maybe so and  if  Richard wants to suck Dick and if Jane wants to lick Jill they are free to do it in a Target bathroom, in The post office, in colleges and universities and anywhere else in the corporate world.  But if Jill wants to be Dick or Dick wants a to be jill let them join the USO to support the troops.

Elegantly put.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Jazzy goes of track when he try's to sell his glorious notion that faggotry is the future of the world.  Well, that maybe so and  if  Richard wants to suck Dick and if Jane wants to lick Jill they are free to do it in a Target bathroom, in The post office, in colleges and universities and anywhere else in the corporate world.  But if Jill wants to be Dick or Dick wants a to be jill let them join the USO to support the troops.

I think it's more that he's a "big tent" kind of guy.  He really does want a GOP majority, and so thinks we should punt on the social issues in order to achieve that.  He thinks if the GOP doesn't alienate people on those issues, it may be able to obtain a solid majority on the other issues he really cares about.

The problem is that not all of those issues quality as ancillary issues on which punting is acceptable.  He may view the military policy on transgenders as just being a sop to conservatives, but it really isn't.  The truth is the opposite -- that the change to permit transgenders was a sop to the left that actually has significant negative consequences.

The "tell" on that issue is how Obama delayed that decision until the end of his Administration, and in fact never did order that transgenders be permitted to enlist.  Why?  Because he was smart enough to know that would enable gaming of the military health system, and open another avenue by which people could avoid deployments.  It also would create significant headaches in terms of whether people would be required to wear the uniform and meet the standards of their biological gender, or their "choice".  All of that would add up to bad publicity and real-world negative consequences. So, he tried to get the PR plus with the left by issuing a vague order that was left to his successor to implement -- and to deal with the consequences.

[edpc]

I think it's more that he's a "big tent" kind of guy.

[Emjay]

I think it's more that he's a "big tent" kind of guy.  He really does want a GOP majority, and so thinks we should punt on the social issues in order to achieve that.  He thinks if the GOP doesn't alienate people on those issues, it may be able to obtain a solid majority on the other issues he really cares about.

The problem is that not all of those issues quality as ancillary issues on which punting is acceptable.  He may view the military policy on transgenders as just being a sop to conservatives, but it really isn't.  The truth is the opposite -- that the change to permit transgenders was a sop to the left that actually has significant negative consequences.

The "tell" on that issue is how Obama delayed that decision until the end of his Administration, and in fact never did order that transgenders be permitted to enlist.  Why?  Because he was smart enough to know that would enable gaming of the military health system, and open another avenue by which people could avoid deployments.  It also would create significant headaches in terms of whether people would be required to wear the uniform and meet the standards of their biological gender, or their "choice".  All of that would add up to bad publicity and real-world negative consequences. So, he tried to get the PR plus with the left by issuing a vague order that was left to his successor to implement -- and to deal with the consequences.

Excellent take on both issues ... the Jazz Man and the military.

I agree on a lot of @Jazzhead ideas.  I think Republicans would be better served by not focusing so much on irrelevant social issues that are fueled by outdated prejudices and ideas.

We disagree strongly on the abortion issue.  He cannot bring himself to be totally pro-life and that hurts me.

But, as usual, you are spot on about the Military and its purpose.