Replacing the Republican Party

[roamer_1]

The fact that we have the government we have today and that it is of our on choosing is a testament to how far we have fallen from the principles of our founding!

Never truer words @Bigun .

I got caught up in the politics game for a very long time thinking that I, and other like minded individuals, could change the Republican party from within.  That worked here in Texas to some extent but on the national level it has been a complete and utter failure and I'm done with it!

Yep. me too. I am rejiggering my own efforts... I don't know if I will be moving money for the Constitution Party in the cause of Right2Life, or if I will gather than money for legal or charitable work directly in that cause, or if I will just stop altogether and let others worry about it.

But I am all the way done with Republicans. I will support them individually if they happen to be Conservative, but the party itself, and it's platform, is a damn lie. Not a penny one.

[TomSea]

Foreign policy is worth a shout about voting, no matter how much folks don't like Mass. Healthcare which that state did want, under Obama and from 2012 on, we saw the rise of ISIS, really a major evil like few we've seen since World War II, we saw the Libyan invasion and the West flooded with refugees. My vote for Romney is totally vindicated.

Approval ratings for the Prez may not be that high but as Juan Williams said this morning, Congress' are much much lower.

[txradioguy]

Liberty has responsibilities. Freedom has consequences.

@txradioguy

Too many people want all the perks of Liberty and freedom without shouldering the responsibilities that come with it nor are they willing to accept the consequences.  Liberals have created a society in which it's never a person's fault for their own actions....there's always someone else to blame.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin
That ain't right. Every man-jack of em preach conservatism  from the stump.
What it is is gullible voters swayed by populism and believing in promises without any guarantee.

@roamer_1

To the contrary, there are a ton of moderate Republicans that conservatives have complained about for years, and we have known they weren't conservative. Yet, when real conservatives run against them in the primary, they still lose.  Even after voters know how they voted.

And if the issue is that you think they keep "fooling" gullible GOP voters year after year, and they keep believing that stuff, then why would those kind of gullible voters move to a new party?  They'll just stay with the GOP and continue to believe the same thing.

The problem is the lack of conservative voters, not the label under which candidates run.

[Bigun]

Never truer words @Bigun .

Yep. me too. I am rejiggering my own efforts... I don't know if I will be moving money for the Constitution Party in the cause of Right2Life, or if I will gather than money for legal or charitable work directly in that cause, or if I will just stop altogether and let others worry about it.

But I am all the way done with Republicans. I will support them individually if they happen to be Conservative, but the party itself, and it's platform, is a damn lie. Not a penny one.

@roamer_1

I was a voting member of the RNC for more than 25 years.  Got a phone call from the current director the other day.  Before it was over I'm sure he was wishing he hadn't called because my final words to him were "when the party actually moves some of the things we have been promising for 40 years call me!  Until then don't bother!

[Bigun]

@Mom MD
Absolutely right! But one can leave the Father aside (as it were), and simply study history and do the math.That the math coincides with the Father's way should not surprise anyone, but the math is the math.

People are better off with little government. Always. All it requires is a good and moral, self-reliant people. And those people, without governance, is where prosperity lives... Where justice abounds. Where there is true kindness, tolerance, and charity.

Liberty has responsibilities. Freedom has consequences.

@txradioguy

   Individual liberty and personal responsibility are inextricably linked together! You simply cannot have one without accepting the other! 

Always been that way and always will be that way!

[txradioguy]

@roamer_1

The problem is the lack of conservative voters, not the label under which candidates run.

IMHO the Conservative voters are still out there...they are just choosing to vote with their feet and stay home.  They are tired of the false prophets claiming to be Conservative...and being told that voting for the almost Liberal Republican is the only way to win.  They get sick of being told their core beliefs are antiquated and bigoted and that to "move the party forward" we have to be more like Democrats in order to make people like us.

They say the world has become too complex for simple answers. They are wrong. ~ Ronald Reagan

The simple answer in this complex world for Conservatives is there is no one in the positions of real power within the GOP that represent them.  So because they have standards and because they stick to their values...they stay home.

[Cyber Liberty]

The simple answer in this complex world for Conservatives is there is no one in the positions of real power within the GOP that represent them.  So because they have standards and because they stick to their values...they stay home.

And to think @Jazzhead says we don't listen to him!

[Maj. Bill Martin]

IMHO the Conservative voters are still out there...they are just choosing to vote with their feet and stay home.

If they aren't willing to vote in the primaries to nominate more conservatives, why would they vote for a third party?  If everyone just lies to them, it changing the label won't change that.

The simple answer in this complex world for Conservatives is there is no one in the positions of real power within the GOP that represent them.  So because they have standards and because they stick to their values...they stay home.

Then the people to blame are those looking right back at them in the mirror.  If you're not going to vote in the primaries to move the party to the right, then don't complain when it moves left.

[Jazzhead]

I think that's what the moderates and those who dislike social conservatives fail to understand.  Those of us who are social conservative/religious do not see politics as the ultimate end.  We answer to a higher power and hold to ultimate truth.  For us the end game is not to win the next election, it is to stand firm and hear the "well done" when we finally stand in front of our maker.  All else is a distant second.

@roamer_1
@txradioguy

And you think it's any different for the "moderates and those who dislike social conservatives"?   You're not the only ones with principles,  not the only ones who seek to live a good and contributive life.  And, for cryin' out loud, you're not the only ones who believes in God! 

One of my pet peeves with social conservatives is that when you scratch 'em  they ooze self-righteousness and forget that Christ taught, above all, the virtue of humility.     

[Mom MD]

@Mom MD
Absolutely right! But one can leave the Father aside (as it were), and simply study history and do the math.That the math coincides with the Father's way should not surprise anyone, but the math is the math.

People are better off with little government. Always. All it requires is a good and moral, self-reliant people. And those people, without governance, is where prosperity lives... Where justice abounds. Where there is true kindness, tolerance, and charity.

Liberty has responsibilities. Freedom has consequences.

@txradioguy

 

[roamer_1]

Too many people want all the perks of Liberty and freedom without shouldering the responsibilities that come with it nor are they willing to accept the consequences.  Liberals have created a society in which it's never a person's fault for their own actions....there's always someone else to blame.

@txradioguy

You missed the gist of that statement. Think of it more as Liberty and Freedom not being the same thing.

Our fathers fought and died, and laid their bodies low to give us a chance at liberty. Too many confuse that liberty with libertine (freedom).

In the end, we are not a free people. In the words of Bob Dylan, waxing prophetic, '
You've Got to Serve Somebody".

Liberty, it turns out, is found in service - I would submit that it is only found in service to the Father, and the precepts he laid down in law - The very precepts our beloved country was founded upon... But in service, nonetheless.

Thus "Liberty has responsibilities,"

Freedom is a whole nuther thing. You are free to partake of the things outside of that service, and many do - Living a life of debauchery, addiction, or winding up doing time...

Thus, "Freedom has consequences".

I think it a comparative worthy of note.

[txradioguy]

If they aren't willing to vote in the primaries to nominate more conservatives, why would they vote for a third party?  If everyone just lies to them, it changing the label won't change that.

They may well do that.  But as for voting in the Primaries to get someone Conservative elected...as I've pointed out before...when you've got people like McConnell acting like John Gotti to anyone who thinks about challenging the establishment guy that Mitch backs...it dissuades potential Conservative candidates from running. 

Not to mention the sheer expense of running a campaign these days.

Honestly the last one that challenged the establishment and the big money in a major GOP election...and won...was Ted Cruz.  McConnell and Cornyn both backed Dewhurst and Ted beat him because he espoused Conservative values and it appealed to those of us in Texas looking for a real Conservative that we could send to the national stage.

Then the people to blame are those looking right back at them in the mirror.  If you're not going to vote in the primaries to move the party to the right, then don't complain when it moves left.

The party needs to get behind conservative candidates...groom the next Ted Cruz and Mike Lee at the state and local levels...not constantly give us more McConnell's and Collin's and telling us that's the best we can do.

[Bigun]

If they aren't willing to vote in the primaries to nominate more conservatives, why would they vote for a third party?  If everyone just lies to them, it changing the label won't change that.

Then the people to blame are those looking right back at them in the mirror.  If you're not going to vote in the primaries to move the party to the right, then don't complain when it moves left.

MOST people don't understand the process and do not vote in primaries.  If they did the likes of John McCain would have been history long ago!

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy

You missed the gist of that statement. Think of it more as Liberty and Freedom not being the same thing.

Our fathers fought and died, and laid their bodies low to give us a chance at liberty. Too many confuse that liberty with libertine (freedom).

In the end, we are not a free people. In the words of Bob Dylan, waxing prophetic, '
You've Got to Serve Somebody".

Liberty, it turns out, is found in service - I would submit that it is only found in service to the Father, and the precepts he laid down in law - The very precepts our beloved country was founded upon... But in service, nonetheless.

Thus "Liberty has responsibilities,"

Freedom is a whole nuther thing. You are free to partake of the things outside of that service, and many do - Living a life of debauchery, addiction, or winding up doing time...

Thus, "Freedom has consequences".

I think it a comparative worthy of note.

Nah I understood it...I think I just tried to combine my thoughts on the two issues into one statement and it didn't come out right.

I get that they are two separate things.

People want Liberty without making the sacrifice for it.  And with an all volunteer military these days they don't have to...so they take their Liberty for granted...people for the most part know little in terms of what those that have worn this uniform before me have done to allow them to live in the country they do today.

Freedom today means something different than what it does to you and me.  We're in a "if it feels good do it" environment.  We have people in society today that want their freedom and they want freedom from responsibility for what they do with that freedom because as I said earlier...they've grown up learning excuses and tossing the blame for their own actions onto other people and the nebulous they and them.

[TomSea]

My take is that the Republican Party is replacing itself, as one sees formerly strong red states go blue as with California, Colorado and Nevada; and the making of more of that in the Southeast and Texas,  a rebranded conservatism is being in the making as well and scoring in the heartland of the US. Meanwhile, the GOP broadens its horizons and more minorities enter into it which can only help in many places.

[roamer_1]

To the contrary, there are a ton of moderate Republicans that conservatives have complained about for years, and we have known they weren't conservative. Yet, when real conservatives run against them in the primary, they still lose.  Even after voters know how they voted.

That's not quite true, @Maj. Bill Martin , and I think you know it. Once in office, so long as they're a player, the political machine works to preserve them.

The RNC works it's ass off to subjugate Conservatism, preferring Democrats to Conservatives, as has been shown time and again in election cycles. The RNC starves Conservative campaigns, and suffocates them in the media.

And if the issue is that you think they keep "fooling" gullible GOP voters year after year, and they keep believing that stuff, then why would those kind of gullible voters move to a new party?  They'll just stay with the GOP and continue to believe the same thing.

More and more, people are waking up. But I will admit, normalcy bias is a hard thing to overcome. and with RNC spoofing ads about how conservative the moderate candidate is, most folks (the lion's share, who really pay no attention to poltics) peg on the sound bytes and think they're doing the right thing.

The problem is the lack of conservative voters, not the label under which candidates run.

By far and away, this country is Conservative. If you want them to vote, give them something to vote *for*.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

By far and away, this country is Conservative.

Upon what do you base that belief?  I see no evidence of that. 

We just had one of the most wide-open, highly-publicized GOP primaries in history.  Record-setting participation.  And among the candidates was Ted Cruz, who I think most would concede was clearly the most conservative potential nominee we had in a really long time.  And he was going up against a non-conservative populist in Trump. 

If there was one election where true, die-hard conservatives should have come out of the woodwork to vote, it should have been this one.  So if this country is "far and away" conservative, why didn't all those conservatives result in Ted waltzing to the nomination?  All those conservatives should have won him the nomination in a landslide.

@roamer_1

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

I was a voting member of the RNC for more than 25 years.  Got a phone call from the current director the other day.  Before it was over I'm sure he was wishing he hadn't called because my final words to him were "when the party actually moves some of the things we have been promising for 40 years call me!  Until then don't bother!

I am kinda in the same boat. I am more on the money end of things, but I didn't raise a penny after Cruz stepped off and Orange Glorious took the stage. So I raised less than a quarter of what I had raised in years past.  Same with Romney's campaign, and McAin'ts...

I decided this year that  am not going to do it at all anymore. All I am doing is feeding bundled money into a system that is working against the very thing I am trying to do.

And they (the political side) hate it that I am stepping off.

But if I do it anymore, I am going to organize my own non-profit or pac... not sure which, or even if... But I won't help to feed the beast anymore. Period.

What a colossal waste of time that's been.

[roamer_1]

Individual liberty and personal responsibility are inextricably linked together! You simply cannot have one without accepting the other! 

Always been that way and always will be that way!

That's right!

[roamer_1]

The simple answer in this complex world for Conservatives is there is no one in the positions of real power within the GOP that represent them.  So because they have standards and because they stick to their values...they stay home.

TRUE.
Give them someone to vote *for* and they will come a-running.
It's always been that way... 'waking the Conservative Juggernaut' is how it used to be termed... Who might harness the three legs of the Conservative stool and tie them together... Because it was common knowledge that anyone who could would be unstoppable.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

TRUE.
Give them someone to vote *for* and they will come a-running.
It's always been that way... 'waking the Conservative Juggernaut' is how it used to be termed... Who might harness the three legs of the Conservative stool and tie them together... Because it was common knowledge that anyone who could would be unstoppable.

They had the chance to vote *for* Ted Cruz.

They didn't.

[Cyber Liberty]

Upon what do you base that belief?  I see no evidence of that. 

We just had one of the most wide-open, highly-publicized GOP primaries in history.  Record-setting participation.  And among the candidates was Ted Cruz, who I think most would concede was clearly the most conservative potential nominee we had in a really long time.  And he was going up against a non-conservative populist in Trump. 

If there was one election where true, die-hard conservatives should have come out of the woodwork to vote, it should have been this one.  So if this country is "far and away" conservative, why didn't all those conservatives result in Ted waltzing to the nomination?  All those conservatives should have won him the nomination in a landslide.

@roamer_1

I'm afraid I have to reluctantly agree with that.  There is a quote, not specifically attributed to anybody, that when the majority figures out they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury it's only a matter of time before that system of government collapses from overspending.  After the 2012 election I felt like I got punched in the gut because it was obvious to me then we'd crossed that line, probably years before.

[Sanguine]

They had the chance to vote *for* Ted Cruz.

They didn't.

Really?  When was that?  At the Convention perhaps?

[roamer_1]

And you think it's any different for the "moderates and those who dislike social conservatives"?   You're not the only ones with principles,  not the only ones who seek to live a good and contributive life.  And, for cryin' out loud, you're not the only ones who believes in God!

@Jazzhead
Yes, we are. Principles are first things. Things which are self-evidently true. To go against those things inevitably brings disaster.

Moderates are nothing more than liberals. They emote. Their desires are not well thought out... and are not based in principle (truth), else they would not compromise the things they do.

The things I hold true ARE true, and cannot be compromised. Compromising those things leads to destruction. Why would I participate in that?

One of my pet peeves with social conservatives is that when you scratch 'em  they ooze self-righteousness and forget that Christ taught, above all, the virtue of humility.   

Projection.
I have no righteousness of my own. Any righteousness I have is borrowed from Messiah.
Yeshua never, ever stood aside in speaking truth. And as I follow Him, I must do the same.

And I don't see any humility in you either, by the way... and that whole 'oozing self-righteousness'...