Replacing the Republican Party

[Sanguine]

When was the last time you heard someone say "vote your conscience" at a national convention?  The answer is: "never".

Cruz wasn't talking about "conscience", he was talking about revenge, settling a score with the party's nominee.

Don't confuse the two.  It was a monumental mistake ... which is why Cruz's donors were slamming doors in his face after he pulled this crap.  His donors knew he was saying:  "Don't vote for Trump".  His donors knew he was saying:  "I'll run again after four years of Hillary".

Again, my advice as someone who appreciates what Cruz brings to the Republican Caucus, please stop debating this.  There are far  too many voters, registered Republican voters, who understand what happened on that stage during the convention. Stop reminding them.

In the name God ... move on.

May be that Cruz doesn't think the way you do and he actually meant what he said.

[Bigun]

I'll stop debating this when you do.  STOP!  Just STOP!  The primaries are over.

Oh, and as to the "insane" comment @Bigun ... I tried to be civil, now you can bite me.

If you don't like being called insane you shouldn't say insane things!

[Smokin Joe]

Oh bullcrap. When people are whining and crying and throwing dirt in the air about something as innocuous as 'Trumper', that's nothing but a cry for safe spaces.

PC-baiting idiocy that belongs on the left.

Actually, all this really takes me back to race riots in high school. This isn't a question of racism, but when you are asked a question or refer to something and no matter what you say it will offend, it is only the heartfelt desire to retain my own dignity that keeps me from engaging in vitriol. Supporters, indeed.

[INVAR]

If one reads the original article, the author, CoDevilla puts that blame at the feet of the Senate.

You either have a SERIOUS READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEM or you are attempting to SPIN what Codevilla wrote.

NOWHERE does Codevilla put blame at just the feet the Senate.  He puts the blame on the Republican Party itself, and notes the historical similarities of the Whigs in 1854 and today's Republican Party - that stands for nothing but the same thing the Democrats do: bigger government, more bureaucracy, less liberty.

Not the house and the president wasn't even mentioned.

NEITHER was the Senate.  Codevilla is addressing the national Republican party as an entire whole.

To wit:

..."in 2017, there are no longer reasons to vote Republican any more than there were to vote Whig after 1854.

...The Whigs, like today’s Republicans, contained a substantial percentage of prominent people whose interests and ideas are hardly distinguishable from those of Democrats.

..."When Congressional Republicans and Democrats together affirmed Obamacare; as they set about financing the health insurance industry in explicit contradiction of law; as every branch of the permanent government continues to have its unaccountable way with Americans; as a foreign policy of indecisive warfare continues despite popular opposition, there is no doubt that today’s America is ruled by a single ruling party and that the Republican Party is part of that party rather than an alternative to it."

..."Why vote Republican when that results, rhetoric aside, in being governed as by Democrats? America needs a true alternative to our ruling Uni-party, a true second party."

That is ALL Codevilla mentions in terms of the existing Republican party in that essay.  He does not list Senate or House or President outside of suggestive of the whole party and it's failures and the reasons the people voted the way they did in the last cycle and how they should vote in the next.

I think we are suppose to discuss the article posted.

I quoted it specifically just now to end your attempt to dump your sore butt from the Mod scolding on this discussion, and stop your erroneous spin of the essay.

[Right_in_Virginia]

YOU are still barking up the wrong tree @Right_in_Virginia!  I invite you to find a single post of mine that brings up Senator Cruz  on this forum in months prior to this conversation.

Thanks for the ping @Bigun .... and I think we've taken this discussion to its natural end.

Have a pleasant evening.

[Smokin Joe]

I'll say one last thing. Now that Donald Trump is head of the Republican Party there's a lot of talk about replacing the Republican Party. Coincidence?  NeverTrump agitprop? Solar eclipse? You decide.

Ronna McDaniel is the Chair of the RNC, Bob Paduchik is co-Chair, at least according to their website. Trump is President of the United States. I did not see Donald trump listed in the GOP leadership, even if he is all over their webpage.

You Trump lovers might want to keep that in mind, as the GOP is in it for the GOP, not for Donald Trump. They'll hitchike on that train, but when they want to get off, they'll block the tracks, just like they are doing. Think aobut it.

[libertybele]

Cruz is an excellent Senator and we are lucky to have him.

If some want to keep pitting Cruz against Trump by replaying the primaries .... it will circle back and hurt Cruz on the national stage.

I'm simply suggesting the primaries are over and it's time to let the old battle go.   

RIV, when someone in my opinion, starts interjecting Cruz into the conversation and in my opinion is doing so just to take a cheap shot at him, I am going to defend him. He is one of the few who has really stuck his neck out for Trump and it seems that Trump's supporters tend to quickly forget that about him. In talking about the national stage, anyway you cut it, Trump is going to need all the supporters he can get in order to win re-election in 2020 (if that is his intent).  I am not comfortable with Pence in play in that regard nor am I comfortable with the way that those inside his own party are derailing his presidency and I certainly doubt they are going to help him (that you need to keep in mind).  I am also not comfortable with the opportunity that Trump had to work with the Freedom caucus in repealing Bammycare and instead he attacked them. IMHO the Republican party is dead, but conservatism still exists. This thread is about replacing the Republican Party.  Again, the only way that is going to happen is if there is a mass exit of conservatives like Cruz and Lee, and members of the Freedom caucus from the Republican party. IF there is anyone who has the ability, knowledge and ground game to lead such an endeavor to form a new party it is Cruz.  I have felt that way since he was first campaigning for his Senate seat and after his presidential campaign, I have absolutely no doubt.  I cannot say that about Trump; he simply doesn't have the knowledge needed nor the backing of conservatives as he himself is not a constitutional conservative.  This thread isn't about Trump though; it's about replacing the GOP.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Romney's accomplished one heckuva a lot more than Cruz, the Ted Cruz, Glen Beck smear machine may be well greased so they should expect it back.

At least, they are capable of anything, Graham, Cruz, seem capable of nothing.

Sure Romney has accomplished a lot, but not much in the way of conservatism.  Giving Massachusetts Obamacare's predecessor, as an example.  Letting the worst President in the history of this country get re-elected as he was a terrible candidate.

Yep, Romney has done so much.

[libertybele]

May be that Cruz doesn't think the way you do and he actually meant what he said.

   Funny, Cruz has been known to do that quite often!

[TomSea]

A new party?

 

While the author of this piece in the OP lauds Honest Abe's stance, others have said the worse of him.  And that was one of abolition.

One needs to see what the author Codevilla says, not go by any words he said.

We need to see the premise of what is being tossed out there as having nothing to do with that article. 

[Smokin Joe]

  Funny, Cruz has been known to do that quite often!

Say just what he means? Yeah, I noticed that years ago, before the primaries were even being talked about.

[Smokin Joe]

A new party?

 

While the author of this piece in the OP lauds Honest Abe's stance, others have said the worse of him.  And that was one of abolition.

One needs to see what the author Codevilla says, not go by any words he said.

We need to see the premise of what is being tossed out there as having nothing to do with that article. 

We'd like to set the taxpayers free of the burden of an arbitrary and capricious Federal Government grown in scope and power far beyond original intent. That's an emancipation that could benefit everyone.

[corbe]

   Is it even possible for Briefers to stay on Topic for 20 pages, I mean sometimes we just run out of ideas and intelligent debate and start swapping recipes, it's natural.

[Mom MD]

We'd like to set the taxpayers free of the burden of an arbitrary and capricious Federal Government grown in scope and power far beyond original intent. That's an emancipation that could benefit everyone.

 

[Bigun]

We'd like to set the taxpayers free of the burden of an arbitrary and capricious Federal Government grown in scope and power far beyond original intent. That's an emancipation that could benefit everyone.

   Well said!  Well said indeed!

[aligncare]

When was the last time you heard someone say "vote your conscience" at a national convention?  The answer is: "never".
.....

Customary that the losing candidates come together behind their party's standard bearer. That didn't happen as seamlessly as it could have. Cruz was angry at the Republican Party, as well as still being angry at Trump. Did he think attendees at the convention and television viewers wouldn't notice?

[corbe]

@libertybele

That I can fix for you.  All you crybabies want is an echo chamber.  Have at it.  Bye

    Aw dude, don't go away MAD!   @driftdriver


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4wBbx9wE5U

[INVAR]

Again, my advice as someone who appreciates what Cruz brings to the Republican Caucus, please stop debating this.

Advise your Trump-supporting pals of that suggestion then.  They're the ones going batshit crazy at the mere sight of his name.

There are far  too many voters, registered Republican voters, who understand what happened on that stage during the convention.

A whole lot of us remember what happened on that stage during the convention in 2012.  We remember Priebus and Boehner and that gavel changing Rule 40b that hands the choice of candidates and nominees to Party elite and took it away from grassroots so no challenge could ever be made intra-party.  We remember that , and we remember EXACTLY what happened last year both on the stage with rules changes to 12 - that shifted power to make rules changes at the convention to the RNC, all the way up to Summer 2018 - SANS any vote of the party membership. We remember the killing of the proposal to kill rule 16, and rewriting rule 37b and 38.  Then of course we remember the infamous rule 40b that was rescinded so a plurality would garner the nomination instead of a clear majority.

We remember the RNC killing the efforts to reign in open primaries by rewarding closed primaries with a 20% increase in delegate counts.  The Open primaries favor Democrats choosing the Republican Nominee and the GOP leadership WANTS that, because it DOES NOT WANT Conservative grass-roots or Libertarian candidates rising up to challenge the Oligarchy.

We also remember the WWE Theatrics when your prince decided to waltz into the hall with his posse while Cruz was speaking.

Yes Virginia - we remember.

Stop reminding them.

Yeah, you party hacks would like that.  But we intend to keep reminding them over and over and over again.

In the name God ... move on.

Moveon.org already exists being borne out of trying to whitewash the malfeasance of the Clintons.

But we will "move on" - to another Conservative party - working to take as many Conservatives out of yours as possible.

Former abused Elephants have eternal memories.

[corbe]

Customary that the losing candidates come together behind their party's standard bearer. That didn't happen as seamlessly as it could have. Cruz was angry at the Republican Party, as well as still being angry at Trump. Did he think attendees at the convention and television viewers wouldn't notice?

   It's also customary (in Republican Primaries) that one candidate doesn't accuse the other candidate's father of assassinating a President.    JS      @aligncare

   In other words there was no 'customary' in that last election so don't throw that word around now like it's suppose to mean anything.

[Emjay]

   President Trump IS the Republican Party, WE Conservatives left it awhile back, if there is a chasm, it's because yall can't get your shit together.  Don't have to be Ms Cleo to predict that was gonna happen.

   PS: No doubt in my mind that a President Cruz would have had major difficulties dealing with those imbeciles, also.

Wrong.  President Trump is the current President.  He is not the Republican party and you may have left the party but most conservatives haven't because the party is our best chance for achieving conservative goals.

[Smokin Joe]

Customary that the losing candidates come together behind their party's standard bearer. That didn't happen as seamlessly as it could have. Cruz was angry at the Republican Party, as well as still being angry at Trump. Did he think attendees at the convention and television viewers wouldn't notice?

Spend months calling me a liar, disrespect my wife, have your pals come out with bogus articles about how I have seven mistresses, my dad supposedly was in league with Oswald in the Kennedy assassination, my wife is a diabolical architect of the Global takeover, but at the same time is having a nervous breakdown and mentally unstable, and with every breath aimed in my direction call me a liar.

I'd probably shoot your ass. Cruz, however, in the spirit of party loyalty, graciousness, whatever, merely congratulated Trump for his ill gotten 'win' and said to vote your conscience, which I would do anyway. For that, in a WWF style event, he was chased from the podium by a well set-up audience there to boo him.

Maybe you can defend that, but every time you jerks insist on pulling that scab loose, you remind me of it. That isn't winning hearts and minds for your boy, there, but apparently you'd rather disrupt and divide than let that wound heal. How Obamish. Done like true Democrats.

Which comes back to the gist of this thread. Replacing the Republican Party. It needs to be done.

[Sanguine]

Customary that the losing candidates come together behind their party's standard bearer. That didn't happen as seamlessly as it could have. Cruz was angry at the Republican Party, as well as still being angry at Trump. Did he think attendees at the convention and television viewers wouldn't notice?

You don't think he was a tiny bit perturbed by all the unethical shenanigans going on vis a vis changing the rules and picking a candidate? 

[Smokin Joe]

Wrong.  President Trump is the current President.  He is not the Republican party and you may have left the party but most conservatives haven't because the party is our best chance for achieving conservative goals.

You  keep believing that, sweetie. Bless your heart.

[libertybele]

Customary that the losing candidates come together behind their party's standard bearer. That didn't happen as seamlessly as it could have. Cruz was angry at the Republican Party, as well as still being angry at Trump. Did he think attendees at the convention and television viewers wouldn't notice?

What you don't seem to understand AC is that Cruz was being true to HIS conscience and to his supporters. 

At any rate .... DRUM ROLL   

The topic is:  Replacing the Republican Party.

Since the Constitution Party has been brought up throughout this thread; I noticed that they've revamped their webpage.  The party of "Integrity, Liberty and Prosperity":

https://www.constitutionparty.com/

[Emjay]

@Mom MD

I think everyone here would agree that moral relativism got us into this mess.  The real world isn't black and white and we are often forced to pick between two seriously imperfect candidates.  The real questioon is what do we do about it.

Do we;  just stop voting, vote for our perfect candidate who has no chance of winning, or vote for who we think has the best chance while being reasonably acceptable.

All of this is complicated by the media and a very chaotic election cycle.  Also by opponents who do anything and everything to gum up the works.  Then there's corruption and people inside our country working to bring it down.

I think the real question is where do we go from here.  I've chosen to make lemonade.  Do the best we can to move back from the edge and work to support better candidates in the future.

In the history of this country we have had very very few perfect candidates.    But let's say we dump the GOP and build a new party.  That will take decades.  What will the leftists do in the meantime?

This asinine pie-in-the sky movement suggested by malcontents is the stupidest thing ever.

Even if it had a snowball's chance in the hot place of happening, you are right, it would take decades.  Decades in which a fractured Republican party would lose to the socialist, communist leftist bunch that we just got rid of after 8 years.

I can't stand those people.  They have a superiority complex because they are so dam good, they can't accept anything less than perfect.  They don't actually suggest any small steps toward what we want.  Small steps can get you there.  But no, throw them all out.

Frankly, they are as sickening as Trump lovers, or whatever the current acceptable term has been decreed t be.