Replacing the Republican Party

[aligncare]

Out of 26% of the population. That's a whole helluva lot more evangelicals that didn't vote at all.

Non voters really don't count for much in politics. If one doesn't bother to vote he has no right to complain.

Fact is 68% of bible-believing voted for Trump. No small potatoes.

[aligncare]

Like NYC?

Yes, exactly like NYC. And, like many other cities today.

I was lucky enough to have been educated in New York City schools before the liberals ruin them.

[roamer_1]

Non voters really don't count for much in politics. If one doesn't bother to vote he has no right to complain.

Fact is 68% of bible-believing voted for Trump. No small potatoes.

TINY potatoes.
Mandate ALWAYS comes from getting folks out of that non-voting pool.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@libertybele

Add that the incumbents and their party backers work harder to destroy any challengers to their seats than they do to defeat Dims,and there you have it,all wrapped up in a ball.

First and foremost with them,it's more about party than it is country.

Don't miss what's happening among Republican voters @sneakypete .... There is real awareness of what's going on in the established GOP.  It's what I like to call the great unmasking.  Obamacare still being the law of the land has gotten their attention.  They are ready to make changes to the faces and entrenched congresscritters cluttering WDC.

This may be the moment to work within the existing structure and elect new, more conservative members to the Republican Congressional caucus.  They're all up for reelection in the House.  Perhaps we could identify those that must go and coalesce around one (not four or five) alternative candidate in each of the identified districts and work for their victory.

And taking a closer look at Republican Senators up for reelection is another good idea.  The President's going to do just this at tonight's rally.

Burning a village to save it typically just leaves a lot of ash---and soil unwelcoming to new growth. 

[truth_seeker]

Non voters really don't count for much in politics. If one doesn't bother to vote he has no right to complain.

Fact is 68% of bible-believing voted for Trump. No small potatoes.

Exit polls do not measure nonvoters. Here is a big national "Exit Poll" of actual voters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016

It found 81% of self-identifying "White evangelical or born-again Christian" voted for Trump.

It also has many other findings, often different from frequently cited versions here. One finding is white college graduates voted for Trump, opposite of one of the early smears f Trump voters as being uneducated hics.

It is worth reading the findings, under the heading "Voter Demographics.".

[libertybele]

Non voters really don't count for much in politics. If one doesn't bother to vote he has no right to complain.

Fact is 68% of bible-believing voted for Trump. No small potatoes.

Bible-believing people aren't necessarily evangelical. 

[TomSea]

@TomSea here we go again.  This is a discussion about whether there is a need for a replacement for the Republican Party.  It is not about whether or not Trump is a pro life President or not.

It's clear to everyone that you do this on purpose.

Continue to thread jack and purposely take this discussion off topic and you'll sit in the corner, again.

Same goes for any thought you might have about arguing with me about what I just told you.

That goes for anyone that wants to continue down this line of discussion and not stick to the topic.

I'll keep it simple:

"It is not about whether or not Trump is a pro life President or not. "

Who said it is? But it is about whether the GOP is pro-life and then, if this author wants to replace it, then, that goes with what progress the GOP has made on this, if the GOP has succeeded in this through the President, that's part of it I guess.

You don't frighten me with your threats. It shows a total disconnect with the issue.

Ban me if you want, you certainly don't do anything about random personal attacks.

Or calling Trump our messiah or that I said propaganda and the other dishonest arguments allowed.

[txradioguy]

Non voters really don't count for much in politics. If one doesn't bother to vote he has no right to complain.

Fact is 68% of bible-believing voted for Trump. No small potatoes.

What does this have to do with whether or not the Republican Party needs to be replaced or not?

[INVAR]

IF we no longer work within the system to change it, then the DEM and the GOP party would have to be dissolved completely and the DNC and RNC dissolved as well. You cannot replace the existing GOP party without dissolving it and displacing its members; including the voting population.

Oh really?  Explain 1854 then.

So ... new parties emerging are going to change things?  IMHO as long as the 'ideals and values' of those parties are still entrenched in the voting populace, they will vote for similar candidates/parties regardless if they have new players and a new name.

True.  A corrupted and debased population that wants Socialism and Statism will vote for whomever gives them that.

But that does not mean I have to stay in their corrupted parties and vote along with the herd.  The herd is welcome to run itself off the cliff like the lemmings they are.  I'll go my own way - advocating as many leave the herd as possible.

Also, you would still have the liberal school system and other liberal entities in tact that have brainwashed our youth.  You still have the globalists like Soros and the Clintons who would see the demise of the GOP waiting in the wings jumping with glee at a golden opportunity to fulfill their agenda.

Principles are not corruptible.  Only those who decide they are no longer needed, or trade them for expediency.  If the public wants Global Socialism, it shall have it.  Voting within a corrupted institution that guarantees and supports that outcome, even if it is a bit slower than the other over Communist/Marxist party is not an institution a Conservative should be party to.

Then there's that pesky U.S. Constitution...would that still be the supreme law of the land?

It's not now.  We have a totally lawless government and system ruling us, to the applause of the majority.  Why would supporting the lawless somehow be in our interests in furthering the rule of law?

Basically dismantling the two party system is dismantling how we as a country vote as that system as evolved over the course of time.

Again, explain 1854 then.

I'm trying to understand some of the logic here. Wiping out the entire existing GOP would dismiss everyone in government from the President on down to the GOP governors and those seated in the GOP state seats.  They would all need to be replaced with the new members willing to form a new party ... the DEM party would still be in tact and the opportunity for them to expand would be enormous.

Read some history and learn what happened to the Whig part and why. The OP in the link discusses it.

You are assuming that the majority of the current GOP voting base want to see the GOP dissolved. 

No. I am not.  I fully recognize the vast majority of the population want big government statism.  The only difference between the GOP and the Democrats is by how much.

I refuse to be party to any.

I want to see the GOP go back to it's original principles.

Not gonna happen.  Trying to make that happen is an exercise in futility and insanity.

I question what happens as a result of that implosion; it doesn't necessarily mean that the new party will be any better.

A corrupted and debased people who want big government and can care less about liberty out of want or ignorance, are not going to serve or support Constitutional Conservatism.  Period. 

[sneakypete]

@Jazzhead

The party's resiliency is apparent;  within the last decade it has undergone two "counterrevolutions" to Reaganism, first the TEA party and most recently the Trump phenomenon -  two movements without, it would appear, a whole lot in common, yet the party now claims the majority of seats at the national and state levels.

Yes,and the party survives by absorbing those rebels within the party,and making sure they are marginalized and never gain any real power.

An example of this is Walter Jones,JR,Republican congresscritter from NC. I read a web report on him while he was running for re-election once where he went to Camp LeJune in NC (it's in his district) while Boy Jorge was beating the drums for yet another American military intervention into one or another of the Shitstainastands,and stood up there on his hind feet in front of all those Marines and told them he was against it and WHY he was against it. He got a standing ovation,yet as far as I can tell it was never reported anywhere but the Camp LeJune and Jacksonville area.

In all the years he has been in Congress he has been consistently conservative as near as I can tell,yet how many of you have even heard of him? When was the last time ANY of you heard of or seen him appear on one of the Sunday political gabfests? The correct number is "Never". Jones can't buy time to appear on any of those shows because he does not play along with the pretend game they are running.

The party's current difficulties have little to do with the fundamental soundness of conservative ideas,  but rather with the predictable reaction to Trump's cult of personality.

 

HorseHillary! The party's "current difficulties" are the same ones they have had ever since they helped the Dims stab Barry Goldwater in the back. They are Republicans only because there were no openings in the Dim Party when they wanted to run for office,or they live in districts where they had to run as a Republican to get elected.

Trying to blame it on Trump is beneath you. You are smarter than that. Trump is the flashing neon sign that voters who are genuine conservatives are fed  up with "business as usual". Trump is the beneficiary,not the reason. I voted for him for 2 reasons. The first being that he was running against Bubbette!,and the second being that he seemed to be running against "business as usual". I WANTED a bomb-thrower in the WH because that is what we need,not somebody that will go along to get along.

Trump commands loyalty and the ability to articulate a clear, simple set of priorities,  but the trajectory of his Presidency has been one of extreme polarization.

That's like saying the best way to have won WW-2 was to just "Get along with the Nazi's and Imperial Japan. Maybe even ask for a few group hugs." YOU DO NOT CHANGE THINGS BY AGREEING WITH THOSE YOU OPPOSE.

BTW,who was that politician that went on tv to stutter out "Caaa....n't we just getttttt....along?" a couple of decades ago? The name escapes me now.

   

In any normal year, the GOP in Congress would have been able to reform the ACA,

Irrelevant,since they have no actual interest in reforming anything.

A third party movement to replace the GOP would be destruction for its own sake,

I agree as far as the part I quoted goes,but please tell me HOW things could possibly be worse. We haven't had a President that wasn't a traitor since Reagan left office. HOW are things going to get better if we just do more of what we have been doing ever since he left office?

[Emjay]

The GOP currently has a peak of elected officials, federal, state etc. Trump 300+ Electoral votes, 30 states.

But some 3rd/4th party fringe-critters, who currently pride themselves on NOT being Republicans, will amass the money, clout, the skill etc. to replace the GOP. Common sense and logic argues they do not suddenly get smarter or more effective than they recently were.

(According to a retired professor from Boston!)

Reminds me of an Albert King song lyric: "If it wasn't for back luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all."

in this case;

"If it wasn't for bad judgment, I wouldn't have no judgment at all."

I know.

So many states are Republican run and those are the successful states.  The dem run states are full of turmoil, murder and bankruptcy.

Why go third party when what we need is to elect conservative Republicans?

We have a chance to do that in the next two elections.  A much better chance than going all H. Ross Perot, who, by the way, gave us 8 years of Clinton.

[aligncare]

Exit polls do not measure nonvoters. Here is a big national "Exit Poll" of actual voters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016

It found 81% of self-identifying "White evangelical or born-again Christian" voted for Trump.

It also has many other findings, often different from frequently cited versions here. One finding is white college graduates voted for Trump, opposite of one of the early smears f Trump voters as being uneducated hics.

It is worth reading the findings, under the heading "Voter Demographics.".

Good stuff, thanks.

Trump's broad popularity with conservatives and moderates and some democrats is offering the RNC a golden opportunity to grow the party (RNC donations are currently outpacing DNC's three to one).

Growing party numbers makes more sense to me than trying to restrict it to a narrow band of ideologues. That's a recipe for losing national elections.

[Emjay]

There are only a handful of select Senators and Congressmen worth a damn and who are actually doing their jobs; that is a given.

Running and winning third party is nearly impossible. I am not saying that a 3rd party candidate can't win, only that qualifying to get onto the ballot in each state is more difficult and more costly for a 3rd party candidate as that is the way that the 'system' has been set up over time.  Those roadblocks and hurdles have to be overcome first before a 3rd party candidate would even have a remote chance along with changing the   the 'stigma' that is associated with being a 3rd party candidate and the mindset of the voting public that a 3rd party candidate cannot win.  As I have stated previously, it would take an exodus of existing politicians such as Cruz, Lee, Paul, Meadows, Amash, Brat, etc.. to move to an established 3rd party (i.e., Constitution party) or create their own in order for there to be a chance at a 3rd party win. Keep in mind that our current President has so far rejected working with those conservatives and he still maintains his base that won him the election.  The other scenario that I see is that a  movement of a powerful group of people (such as a shadow government) that has been working in the background for some time forming a 3rd party, and I'm not so sure that is a 3rd party that we're going to like.

In addition to the truth you spoke, can we have an over/under in how long it would take some perpetually angry people here to turn on the third party if by some miracle one got in power.

[TomSea]

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/20/republican-party-needs-to-be-replaced/

I see the original article makes no mention of corruption, if one is making some pangs about someone taking the article off topic,  why is this not mentioned? Corruption is totally off-topic, this becomes an argument to just throw anything out there.

I referred to the Republican National Platform of the party this Codevilla wants to replace. Sorry for going so off-topic.

[sneakypete]

And that has done what exactly to move us back from the brink of the Liberals dream of Utopia in America?

@truth_seeker @txradioguy

The term "Putting lipstick on a pig" seems to be appropriate here.

Even with those numbers we can't get enough state houses to vote for an Article V convention.  By your numbers it should be a cake walk.

Yet here we are being told our best option is to let the Republicans govern as Democrat lite because "it's the only way".

There it is! You/I/all of us could "sort of" agree with that if it were new,but it has been the alleged Republican mantra ever since the Bush Crime Family first ran for the presidency. Seen any massive moves to conservatism since Poppy took office?

[MOD3]

One more off topic post and there will be people going to sit in the corner for awhile like the spoiled brats they are.

There are members who are purposely trying to shut this thread down.  To those replying to @TomSea @truth_seeker or @aligncare on anything that is not related to the OP stop.  They are purposely luring you into an off topic debate to try and insulate themselves from punishment for ignoring my previous warning.

Unless you'd like to join them, quit feeding the trolls.

[Emjay]

And that has done what exactly to move us back from the brink of the Liberals dream of Utopia in America?

Even with those numbers we can't get enough state houses to vote for an Article V convention.  By your numbers it should be a cake walk.

Yet here we are being told our best option is to let the Republicans govern as Democrat lite because "it's the only way".

Obviously, you missed several posts.

It has been suggested here that conservatism is in the ascendancy and that a lot of states, successful ones, are run by Republicans.

Perfect Republicans?  Of course not.  But better than the Dems who have bankrupted and destroyed the states they run.

We don't need to go outside the party to find conservatives. 

[INVAR]

Which all means that even though 75 percent (a number I pulled out of my ass) of the people who self-identify as conservatives will be VERY reluctant to leave what they know and are comfortable bitching about for a party that has no history,and more than anything else,politics is a number game.

Thanks Pete.  I think Jefferson penned those exact sentiments best:

"All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

And, that party and this people are accustomed to the evils of big government Statism.  They are addicted to it.  They want it.  An those who do not, are too afraid to risk something new because evils are sufferable. Because corruption is less frightening than risk.

IF the nation is lucky,we MIGHT see weasels like Lady Lindsey,the entire Bush Crime Family,McLunatic,and the rest of the RINO's decide to form a new party so they can stay in control of SOMETHING and keep the graft and cash payoffs for treason flowing,and a new Conservative political party will arise with people in leadership as well as just Party Member positions working towards creating an actual Constitutional government that recognizes that people have responsibilities as citizens,as well as rights.

Doubtful.  As you know the party rewrite the rules to ensure the Oligarchy is unable to be challenged from the Grassroots up from the ranks, and I think after trump they will bolster any chance of an outsider coming in to do the same.

The only people with the power to really make changes are the voters,and clearly they just can't be bothered.

The people are more disposed to suffer corruption, because corruption is sufferable than risk abolishing the corruption that they have grown accustomed.

[Emjay]

But he has the power...and that's what counts.  He controls the money...he decides who gets it for their re-election and who doesn't.

Just look at how he's doing things down in Alabama and how he acted like a Mob Boss in Mississippi and Kentucky in 2014.

Until there is a serious campaign to oust him and send him back to Kentucky...not much is going to change in the U.S. Senate.

The reality is Mitch runs the place much in the same way Dingy Harry Reid did.

I think that will happen ... he may be the most hated man in America.

[sneakypete]

Country was Founded upon "Christian Values".   Constitution was written surely with "Christian Values".

Just steering the country back to the Constitution and enforcing current immigration laws are exemplification of those values.

@DCPatriot

Just because a lie is popular and often repeated,doesn't mean it's not a lie. Neither the Christian or any other religion I know of promotes or rewards free speech and thought. You either agree with the dogma,or the leadership condemns you to an eternity of torture.

On the other hand the US Constitution is all about the state enforcing and protecting the right of individuals to live their lives freely without government intervention as long as they are not harming anyone else.

We,as a nation do seem to have wandered a bit,haven't we?

[libertybele]

Oh really?  Explain 1854 then.


Again, explain 1854 then.

Read some history and learn what happened to the Whig part and why. The OP in the link discusses it.

Doing some research INVAR -- I'll get back to you on this one.  Give me a bit.

[TomSea]

The EXISTING political party IS ALREADY BROKEN.  I'm not talking about "breaking the system" unless the current paradigm of "vote for the lesser Liberal" is how you define "the system".  I'm in agreement with Angelo Codevilla, who is now persona non grata from GOP party hacks  who masquerade as Conservatives. Codevilla was once a celebrated Conservative's Conservative by the same party hacks now trashing him and his essay.

The GOP is CORRUPT, and IRREDEEMABLE and serves the imposition of tyranny and Statism under the color of law.

I'm not advocating tearing the GOP down and rebuilding it.  Their leadership rewrote the rules to prohibit any challenge to their perpetual corrupt rulership of the party

I'm advocating Conservatives separate from it, regard it as just another party of Liberalism and build a new party outside the cesspool of DC.

Calling the GOP "corrupt" and accusing others of not being conservatives seems to be offtopic. I don't see that in the OP article.  Apparently, we can not bring up the Republican Platform and possible lack of conservatism in this case. 

[TomSea]

One more off topic post and there will be people going to sit in the corner for awhile like the spoiled brats they are.

There are members who are purposely trying to shut this thread down.  To those replying to @TomSea @truth_seeker or @aligncare on anything that is not related to the OP stop.  They are purposely luring you into an off topic debate to try and insulate themselves from punishment for ignoring my previous warning.

Unless you'd like to join them, quit feeding the trolls.

Disgraceful namecalling by @MOD3 , calling people Trollls and the lie that people are going off topic noted.  Humiliating people for merely bringing up, the fact, that the GOP is acting conservatively per their party platform, real off-topic.

[Emjay]

Sure if I had my choice neither of them would have been candidates let alone President.   However, that is what we ended up with.  So we can make lemonade or back off and pout and dream of a utopia where the children of socialist indoctrination suddenly realize the fallacy of what they believe.

Like you, I have some optimism.  I do see a rise in conservatism ... perhaps slowed a little by Trump hatred, both justified and unjustified.

But whining is what some do best.  And I'd bet the farm, if I had one, that they would be whining just as much if they got their pie in the sky Blessed Third Party elected.

[txradioguy]

I think that will happen ... he may be the most hated man in America.

You can be the most hated man in America...and as long as you control the money and the committee assignments you can insulate yourself from any type of internal revolt or move to oust you from power.