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Author Topic: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives  (Read 9720 times)

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Offline INVAR

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2017, 12:51:30 pm »
Quote from: Cripplecreek on August 10, 2017, 12:40:27 pm
Trumpers are top down power progressives.

I'm a federalist and couldn't care less what their king wants.

I want my congressman to represent my district and my senators to represent my state.

The Republican Party is simply the Party of Better-run Bigger Statist Government.  They will spend the rest of their days fighting with the Democrats over which of them is more 'compassionate' as they exponentially expand the state to sate their pet lobbyists and donors.
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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline TomSea

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2017, 02:22:00 pm »
It's tough, the Christian base, in general,  voted for Trump,

Now we see pro-life actions enacted and ISIS beaten back.

Just as Matthew was a tax collector and became an apostle, sometimes one doesn't know where the most Christian acts come from.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2017, 02:24:41 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on August 10, 2017, 02:22:00 pm
It's tough, the Christian base, in general,  voted for Trump,

You have credible data to back that up?

Quote
Now we see pro-life actions enacted and ISIS beaten back.


Why do you insist on spinning these fairy tales?

Quote
Just as Matthew was a tax collector and became an apostle,

So now Trump is equal to one of the Apostles?

That's rich.  :silly:

Quote
sometimes one doesn't know where the most Christian acts come from.

They won't come from Trump.
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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline INVAR

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2017, 02:37:10 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on August 10, 2017, 02:22:00 pm
Just as Matthew was a tax collector and became an apostle, sometimes one doesn't know where the most Christian acts come from.

The deification of Trump continues, despite the fruits of the man's personal life and his Twitterpated thumbs.
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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline aligncare

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2017, 02:40:08 pm »
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2017, 02:46:35 pm »

Evangelicals voted Trump.

I'm surprised 7-months in to the Trump administration there are still those questioning that fact.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #81 on: August 10, 2017, 02:49:24 pm »
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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline aligncare

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #82 on: August 10, 2017, 02:54:11 pm »

I'm sorry, I don't argue with straw men. I don't speak the language.
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #83 on: August 10, 2017, 02:55:06 pm »
Quote from: aligncare on August 10, 2017, 02:46:35 pm
Evangelicals voted Trump.

I'm surprised 7-months in to the Trump administration there are still those questioning that fact.

They sure didn't vote for Her Thighness.
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Offline jpsb

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #84 on: August 10, 2017, 02:56:01 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on August 10, 2017, 12:33:42 pm
There is a way that seems right to a man, but therein lies the path to death.

Proverbs 14 & 16.

You're stuck on dismissing the principles that make liberty possible in favor of pure politics and making men messiahs.

You make me laugh with your assertion of 'reason'.  You think yourselves wise, having made yourselves gods in your own minds - but instead have made yourselves into fools.

Your future shall be tyranny and the tyranny of men you eagerly and vociferously encourage while you impugn and insult those governed by the very things you disdain and think have no place in deciding the government of society.  I think someone like you will cheerlead tyranny, declaring it the new gospel and hoping for a place at their table or to act as their agent.

Not any more.

You have redefined it into the image of Trump.

Perhaps it's time to attempt to define what it means to be a conservative in the USA. I'll note that an American conservative is not the same as say a UK conservative or a conservative in Germany.

American conservationism is unique since our constitution is unique. Implied in that is that it is axiomatic that an American conservative believes in our founding documents. Conservatives believe that our constitution is a contract between the people and the federal  government and the supreme law of the land.

Our Declaration of Independence declares that our rights come from our Creator not man or government. So we have two core principles that defined an American conservative. Fidelity to the Constitution and belief in a Creator. Conservatives (all conservatives not just USA conservatives) also tend to want to conserve the values and traditions of society so I'll throw that in as another core principle.

Summery
Fidelity to our Constitution
Belief in a Creator
Uphold traditional values.


Feel free add more or challenge mine. Now if you want to tell me that President Trump (not businessman Trump) is not a conservative you are going to have come up with a different definition of a conservative or document for where President Trump is in conflict with mine.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #85 on: August 10, 2017, 02:56:14 pm »
Quote from: aligncare on August 10, 2017, 02:46:35 pm
Evangelicals voted Trump.

I'm surprised 7-months in to the Trump administration there are still those questioning that fact.

Maybe people are bewildered by that alleged fact because of his history of and continued support for the LGBT agenda and he's yet to show any signs of being a supporter of pro life issues.  He's done nothing that I've seen or heard about to roll back any of the anti religion land mines the Obama administration tossed at the country during Big Ears 8 years in office.

So no in reality it's not hard to see why people legitimately question that fact.




« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:56:36 pm by txradioguy »
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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #86 on: August 10, 2017, 02:57:21 pm »
Quote from: aligncare on August 10, 2017, 02:54:11 pm
I'm sorry, I don't argue with straw men. I don't speak the language.

That's exactly the answer I figured that you'd give.  Thanks for not disappointing.
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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline INVAR

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #87 on: August 10, 2017, 03:07:21 pm »
Quote from: jpsb on August 10, 2017, 02:56:01 pm

Feel free add more or challenge mine. Now if you want to tell me that President Trump (not businessman Trump) is not a conservative you are going to have come up with a different definition of a conservative or document for where President Trump is in conflict with mine.

You continue to ascribe to him what your hopes and dreams for him are - not what he actually is.

Outside of Gorshuch - Trump is a typical NY Liberal Democrat.

These are outside the parameters of 'upholding traditional values' - just for starters. 



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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline jpsb

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #88 on: August 10, 2017, 03:16:30 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on August 10, 2017, 03:07:21 pm
You continue to ascribe to him what your hopes and dreams for him are - not what he actually is.

Outside of Gorshuch - Trump is a typical NY Liberal Democrat.


You have provided no evidence that Trump is not faithful to our constitution, that he does not believe in a Creator or that he does not wish to preserve tradition values.

I was very disappointed when the Supreme Court ruled in favor of same sex marriage and Trump said it's the law of the land now. Very disappointed so I will give him a demerit on preserving tradition values. But even with that he's still 75% to 85% conservative.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 03:17:02 pm by jpsb »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #89 on: August 10, 2017, 03:19:53 pm »
Quote from: jpsb on August 10, 2017, 03:16:30 pm
You have provided no evidence that Trump is not faithful to our constitution, that he does not believe in a Creator or that he does not wish to preserve tradition values.

I was very disappointed when the Supreme Court ruled in favor of same sex marriage and Trump said it's the law of the land now. Very disappointed so I will give him a demerit on preserving tradition values. But even with that he's still 75% to 85% conservative.

We don't have to provide any "proof"  Trump lays it out very clearly himself.  He's not Conservative...said he didn't need us remember?  He's not really for the Constitution...his support of Kelo shows that....and then as always there is this...the real Trump:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHAHKGP10yc

« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 03:20:33 pm by txradioguy »
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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #90 on: August 10, 2017, 03:23:40 pm »
Quote from: Mom MD on August 10, 2017, 11:34:37 am
The mistake here is thinking Trump and those that blindly support him are conservative.  Trump is not a conservative and never has been.  Those that wholeheartedly support him are populists or pragmatists but not conservatives.  It never ceases to amaze me how folks who say they are conservatives twist like a pretzel to support Trump positions that are anything but conservative, then heap scorn on those who continue to stand on their convictions.  I dont care what your political philosophy is, but lets be honest about it.
Or quite possibly they are many people, that are long time conservatives, weary of  losing and of debating the meaning ad infinitum, as if we first need a precise numbers of angels on the heads of our pins. Conservatives can and we recently learned are ALSO pragmatic, and have populist elements.

 
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Online Bigun

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #91 on: August 10, 2017, 03:27:35 pm »
Quote from: txradioguy on August 10, 2017, 03:19:53 pm
We don't have to provide any "proof"  Trump lays it out very clearly himself.  He's not Conservative...said he didn't need us remember?  He's not really for the Constitution...his support of Kelo shows that....and then as always there is this...the real Trump:


I won't argue with a word you said but will ask you honestly what conservative purpose does bringing it back up again at this point?  Donald J. Trump warts and all IS the president now whether you like it or not!
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #92 on: August 10, 2017, 03:31:41 pm »
Quote from: txradioguy on August 10, 2017, 03:19:53 pm
We don't have to provide any "proof"  Trump lays it out very clearly himself.  He's not Conservative...said he didn't need us remember?  He's not really for the Constitution...his support of Kelo shows that....and then as always there is this...the real Trump:


Trump is wherever the winds blow him at the moment.

In 2012 he wanted to throw out the electoral college and protest the legitimate if disastrous election of Obama.





Of course his fans are equally fickle. They shift easily from attacking neocon warmongering George Bush to rubbing themselves raw with excitement at the prospect of a war with North Korea.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #93 on: August 10, 2017, 03:38:23 pm »
Quote from: Bigun on August 10, 2017, 03:27:35 pm
I won't argue with a word you said but will ask you honestly what conservative purpose does bringing it back up again at this point?  Donald J. Trump warts and all IS the president now whether you like it or not!

It's merely a response to people wondering why his alleged "Christian values" are still being questioned.

And it's a response to the wild claims that Trump is the most Christian president we've ever had.

When he does things that are good for the country or good for the military I do and will continue to support him and say so here on TBR.

But I don't wear any rose colored glasses where he is concerned to the glaring faults and missteps or instances where his actions speak louder than his words.
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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline INVAR

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #94 on: August 10, 2017, 03:41:31 pm »
Quote from: jpsb on August 10, 2017, 03:16:30 pm
You have provided no evidence that Trump is not faithful to our constitution, that he does not believe in a Creator or that he does not wish to preserve tradition values.

I did.  You chose not to see it.



Then there's his fealty to the Constitution - which is however he decides to interpret it at the moment apparently:


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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline aligncare

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #95 on: August 10, 2017, 03:41:47 pm »
Quote from: Bigun on August 10, 2017, 03:27:35 pm
I won't argue with a word you said but will ask you honestly what conservative purpose does bringing it back up again at this point?  Donald J. Trump warts and all IS the president now whether you like it or not!

I could take a stab at that. It's called butt hurt.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #96 on: August 10, 2017, 03:45:40 pm »
Quote from: Bigun on August 10, 2017, 03:27:35 pm
I won't argue with a word you said but will ask you honestly what conservative purpose does bringing it back up again at this point?  Donald J. Trump warts and all IS the president now whether you like it or not!

So?  Calling him a Conservative doesn't make it so any more than those who insisted Obama was a Christian, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

The argument being made now is that if you are a Conservative you must support Trump because he is 'Conservative', and if you do not support him, you are not a Conservative.

So, warts and all - and despite the fact Trump is president, we have to have this argument.
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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Online Bigun

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #97 on: August 10, 2017, 03:51:16 pm »
Quote from: aligncare on August 10, 2017, 03:41:47 pm
I could take a stab at that. It's called butt hurt.

And how are posts like that helping anything?
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #98 on: August 10, 2017, 03:53:08 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on August 10, 2017, 03:45:40 pm
So?  Calling him a Conservative doesn't make it so any more than those who insisted Obama was a Christian, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

The argument being made now is that if you are a Conservative you must support Trump because he is 'Conservative', and if you do not support him, you are not a Conservative.

So, warts and all - and despite the fact Trump is president, we have to have this argument.

I am making no such argument! Merely observing that he IS the president whether or not we like it and will be so for the next 3.5 years at least!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 03:53:26 pm by Bigun »
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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline jpsb

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Re: Anti-Trumpers Need To Fire On The Real Enemy Instead Of On Conservatives
« Reply #99 on: August 10, 2017, 03:53:14 pm »
Quote from: txradioguy on August 10, 2017, 03:19:53 pm
We don't have to provide any "proof"  Trump lays it out very clearly himself.  He's not Conservative...said he didn't need us remember?  He's not really for the Constitution...his support of Kelo shows that....and then as always there is this...the real Trump:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHAHKGP10yc

The fact that you do not think you have to provide proof to back up your assertions is very telling. I really do not care what Trump says, he is very inconsistent early on on any new issue that comes up. I'll judge him by his actions.

I think Kelo was a horrible ruling, hopefully it can the overturned, but it is not surprising that a real estate developer would like the ruling. Again a minor demerit. Trump has nothing to with that ruling and President can't change it. All President Trump can do is appoint conservative judges to the courts and that is exactly what he is going. Five thus far. Actions.
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