Trump's indecision on Afghanistan leaves generals in lurch

[mystery-ak]

 Trump's indecision on Afghanistan leaves generals in lurch

The commanders missed early warning signs that the president might not immediately approve their plan for more troops.

By WESLEY MORGAN

08/10/2017 05:05 AM EDT

Updated 08/10/2017 09:39 AM EDT

U.S. and Afghan military commanders battling the Taliban and the Islamic State are encountering an obstacle they never expected, sources close to them say: months of indecision by President Donald Trump on whether to commit thousands of additional American troops.

Instead of approving their plan for more troops as anticipated, the president has caught his generals off guard by questioning whether the 16-year-long effort to stabilize Afghanistan is still worth it, according to current and former military officials familiar with the conversations. Meanwhile, news reports raise the prospects he might replace the top U.S. commander in the region or hand private contractors the day-to-day task of advising the flagging Afghan security forces.

more
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/10/trump-afghanistan-generals-indecision-241463

[driftdiver]

Trump's indecision on Afghanistan leaves generals in lurch

The commanders missed early warning signs that the president might not immediately approve their plan for more troops.

By WESLEY MORGAN

08/10/2017 05:05 AM EDT

Updated 08/10/2017 09:39 AM EDT

U.S. and Afghan military commanders battling the Taliban and the Islamic State are encountering an obstacle they never expected, sources close to them say: months of indecision by President Donald Trump on whether to commit thousands of additional American troops.

Instead of approving their plan for more troops as anticipated, the president has caught his generals off guard by questioning whether the 16-year-long effort to stabilize Afghanistan is still worth it, according to current and former military officials familiar with the conversations. Meanwhile, news reports raise the prospects he might replace the top U.S. commander in the region or hand private contractors the day-to-day task of advising the flagging Afghan security forces.

more
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/10/trump-afghanistan-generals-indecision-241463

How is questioning whether we should even be there "indecision"?

16 years, thats nearly enough time for someone born after 9/11 to grow up, join the Army and be deployed there.

[dfwgator]

No Blood for Opium!

[massadvj]

Interesting that left-leaning politico wants to criticize Trump for "indecision" for something it would call "courage" if Obama did it.

I hope Trump has the cajones to pull out of there.  The war in Afghanistan simply does not pass a cost/benefit test, and "America First" should mean we do not pay for other peoples' wars. 

[txradioguy]

Interesting that left-leaning politico wants to criticize Trump for "indecision" for something it would call "courage" if Obama did it.

I hope Trump has the cajones to pull out of there.  The war in Afghanistan simply does not pass a cost/benefit test, and "America First" should mean we do not pay for other peoples' wars.

If he does decide to withdraw forces...it had better be done in such a way that we're not back in there in 5-10 years because the place continues to be an unstabilized mess.

If Pakistan wasn't such a Taliban sympathizer we could have had this wrapped up 5 or 6 years ago.

[dfwgator]

If he does decide to withdraw forces...it had better be done in such a way that we're not back in there in 5-10 years because the place continues to be an unstabilized mess.

If Pakistan wasn't such a Taliban sympathizer we could have had this wrapped up 5 or 6 years ago.

If anything, we need to move the troops to Pakistan.

[txradioguy]

If anything, we need to move the troops to Pakistan.

The frustrating thing is we know where the Taliban HQ is.  We know they retreat back to a certain area in Pakistan every winter to get ready for the next "fighting season" as we called it when I was there.

Couple well placed MOAB's in the Novermber/December time frame on their big camp...women and children casualties be dammed...and we could all go home.

[TomSea]

If anything, we need to move the troops to Pakistan.

Pakistan has always provided a lot of the fighters in all of these conflicts, Afghanistan population is 33 million, Pakistan about 188 million.  They have always been a big problem;  and that would take some effort if people think Afghanistan is a quagmire.

Good Taliban vs. Bad Taliban:
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2014/1109/Good-Taliban-and-Bad-Taliban.-New-dynamic-inside-Pakistan

And there's a lot of Taliban in Pakistan.

[truth_seeker]

How is questioning whether we should even be there "indecision"?

16 years, thats nearly enough time for someone born after 9/11 to grow up, join the Army and be deployed there.

Because it gives Politico a means, to write an anti-Trump story.

It is a very valid question to pose: Should we keep doing what we have done for 16 years, just a bit more of it?

Yet another "surge?"

[txradioguy]

Pakistan has always provided a lot of the fighters in all of these conflicts, Afghanistan population is 33 million, Pakistan about 188 million.  They have always been a big problem;  and that would take some effort if people think Afghanistan is a quagmire.

Good Taliban vs. Bad Taliban:
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2014/1109/Good-Taliban-and-Bad-Taliban.-New-dynamic-inside-Pakistan

And there's a lot of Taliban in Pakistan.

No such thing as "good" Taliban...ever.

They are in Pakistan because they are protected by elements of the ISI.  Their bases are safe because they are in a frontier area where the Paki military rarely if ever feels brave enough to travel to.

They come to Pakistan in the winter time to re arm and train new recruits and count the money they rake in from their shadow governments in opium dealing in the provinces in Afghanistan.

Then when the snows melt in the passes in APril they come down and start what's known as the "fighting season".

Wash rinse repeat.  They have one thing we don't over there right now...the will to see this out until they win.

[truth_seeker]

So you have Afghanistan and Pakistan, numbering over 200 million, adjacent several other fairly remote places.

Russia failed. To date we have not succeeded, since our people and Afghan military continue getting killed.

What is the goal, and what is the cost, when do we leave, etc.

[endicom]

What is the goal, and what is the cost, when do we leave, etc.

Should have been asked before we went in to smoke 'em out.

[dfwgator]

What is the goal

Keep the flow of Opium going.

[truth_seeker]

To finalize the Afghan situation might be impossible. Almost certainly is, with the small number of troops that can be allocated from a small, all volunteer military.

To finalize WWII, we stationed enough troops, to "De-Nazify" Germany. Same for Japan.

Two things in common with wars that stayed won:

1. Plenty or troops, willing to keep boots on the backs of the defeated nation

2. Willingness to bomb the enemy to smithereens and back

That really set the stage, to go in, say "we won, and we are here to make sure you stay in line."

IMO we now have too many PhD generals who specialize in half-measure uncertain outcomes, and too few real warriors that get the entire job done.

Iraq since 1991

Afghanistan since 2001

What are we doing, why are we doing it, when are we going to stop?

[txradioguy]

So you have Afghanistan and Pakistan, numbering over 200 million, adjacent several other fairly remote places.

Russia failed. To date we have not succeeded, since our people and Afghan military continue getting killed.

What is the goal, and what is the cost, when do we leave, etc.

We haven't succeeded because we've let the politicians and not the soldiers on the ground dictate our ROE.

Instead of putting teeth into " you're either with us or you're with the terrorists" we've been too busy apologizing to the wrong people for going after the bad guys.

The goal should be to help the people of Afghanistan never have to ever again live in a world where they live in fear of being caught owning a radio or TV.

We should never have to see videos of women being executed in the local soccer stadium because their ankle was revealed from under their dress as they crossed the street.

We should want as an end goal to help return Afghanistan to the country it was becoming prior to the beginning of Soviet intervention in the early 70's.

[truth_seeker]

We haven't succeeded because we've let the politicians and not the soldiers on the ground dictate our ROE.

Instead of putting teeth into " you're either with us or you're with the terrorists" we've been too busy apologizing to the wrong people for going after the bad guys.

The goal should be to help the people of Afghanistan never have to ever again live in a world where they live in fear of being caught owning a radio or TV.

We should never have to see videos of women being executed in the local soccer stadium because their ankle was revealed from under their dress as they crossed the street.

We should want as an end goal to help return Afghanistan to the country it was becoming prior to the beginning of Soviet intervention in the early 70's.

So in other words, Nation Building? What if the majority of Afghans favor their medieval ways?

The kind of place it was before the Soviet era, was permanent tribal conflict, for hundreds of years.

Nobody ever subdued them, or if they did for awhile, did not wanted to stay permanently engaged thusly.

Read "Caravans," by James Michener.

[Elderberry]

The president has conflicting impulses and is hoping someone can give him a better strategy,” one government official said of the holdup

Do we have another Jimmy Carter?

So wanting to make the "Right Decision" that he waits too long to act.

Or does he even care to make the "Right Decision" and just wants the problem taken care of, to go away.

[txradioguy]

So in other words, Nation Building? What if the majority of Afghans favor their medieval ways?

The kind of place it was before the Soviet era, was permanent tribal conflict, for hundreds of years.

Nobody ever subdued them, or if they did for awhile, did not wanted to stay permanently engaged thusly.

Read "Caravans," by James Michener.

It's not called nation building. Not even close.

Apparently you really don't know how modern Afghanistan was before circa 1973. People wore western clothing. They had Boy and Girl Scout organizations. Women attended college. They had a base of well educated people population the country.







I don't need to read a stupid book to know the history of that region. I experienced it first hand.

You apparently read the wrong book.

[truth_seeker]

I don't need to read a stupid book to know the history of that region. I experienced it first hand.

You apparently read the wrong book.

James Michener did not write stupid books. You were there in 1973? 1983?

Had no idea, you were anywhere close to that old. But thanks for your service.

Michener also wrote highly regarded historical fiction books about Texas, Mexico, Colorado, Maryland, Alaska, Canada, Hawaii, Poland, Israel, South Africa, and others.

[TomSea]

Likewise, a few stupid pictures don't prove a point either like a whole country being Westernized. I doubt it.

Huffington Post says these are 1970 Afghanistan too.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/13/luke-powell_n_4705870.html

"Photographer Luke Powell was traveling from India to Europe in 1971 when war broke out between India and Pakistan, leading the artist to take a travel detour. Powell wound up in Afghanistan; albeit, a very different Afghanistan than the one we jump to visualize today."

[TomSea]

You can find a lot of pictures of modern day Pakistan that makes it look like they are Westernized, with malls, modern clothes. I'll be darned if that means I'm going to believe they have no bearded turbaned terrorists walking around. The large population in Pakistan have fueled a lot of the terrorism around.



Similar goes for Turkey.

[txradioguy]

James Michener did not write stupid books. You were there in 1973? 1983?

Had no idea, you were anywhere close to that old. But thanks for your service.

Michener also wrote highly regarded historical fiction books about Texas, Mexico, Colorado, Maryland, Alaska, Canada, Hawaii, Poland, Israel, South Africa, and others.

And so that means we are suppose to use those as facts for everything in the above mentioned titles?

 

[txradioguy]

You can find a lot of pictures of modern day Pakistan that makes it look like they are Westernized, with malls, modern clothes. I'll be darned if that means I'm going to believe they have no bearded turbaned terrorists walking around. The large population in Pakistan have fueled a lot of the terrorism around.



Similar goes for Turkey.

You coild apply that same analogy to certain politicians too.

[Cripplecreek]

Its too bad we have a "president" who is so busy kissing Putin's butt that he can't push back against Russia arming the guys killing our soldiers and allies in Afghanistan.