Trump warns N. Korea it will face 'fire and fury'

[skeeter]

The timeline of nuclear development supports cooperation between Iran and North Korea, rather than an exchange with China.  Still, that falls into the lap of Clinton, with the disastrous Operation Merlin in 2000.

Its most likely Iran got their technology from the Norks, meaning China.

[edpc]

Its most likely Iran got their technology from the Norks, meaning China.

Then, you were obviously unfamiliar with Operation Merlin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/twisted-view-of-cias-operation-merlin/2015/01/26/dc107fd6-a3e7-11e4-9f89-561284a573f8_story.html?utm_term=.7cd32abe8a5d

[edpc]

Whatever keeps you awake thu the night.   

Well, some of us happen to recall the consequences of things like Gulf of Tonkin, Sudan aspirin factories, and 'slam dunk' WMDs.

[Victoria33]

Are you scared or just being a drama queen?

@Wingnut

Stating fact - N. Korea threatening preemptive attack on Guam.  Check your TV, any news station.

[driftdiver]

Then, you were obviously unfamiliar with Operation Merlin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/twisted-view-of-cias-operation-merlin/2015/01/26/dc107fd6-a3e7-11e4-9f89-561284a573f8_story.html?utm_term=.7cd32abe8a5d

It's both.  Probably Russia and Pakistan too

[edpc]

It's both.  Probably Russia and Pakistan too

Definitely Pakistan involvement.  A lot of the proliferation can be traced back to their national hero, A. Q. Khan.  They ISI knew what he was doing.

[skeeter]

Then, you were obviously unfamiliar with Operation Merlin.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/twisted-view-of-cias-operation-merlin/2015/01/26/dc107fd6-a3e7-11e4-9f89-561284a573f8_story.html?utm_term=.7cd32abe8a5d

https://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/OP351.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Iran_relations
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/nuclear-expert-china-has-sold-iran-long-range-missile-technology-video/
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-06-22/news/9506220151_1_missile-technology-control-regime-pakistan-and-iran-ballistic-missiles
https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-56873731.html

[Wingnut]

Well, some of us happen to recall the consequences of things like Gulf of Tonkin, Sudan aspirin factories, and 'slam dunk' WMDs.

Blah Blab Blah.  You need to get a grip on your hate.  We have a destiny to fulfill... to make the world safe.

[Wingnut]

@Wingnut

Stating fact - N. Korea threatening preemptive attack on Guam.  Check your TV, any news station.

Don't make it true.   Duck and Cover baby. 

[edpc]

Blah Blab Blah.  You need to get a grip on your hate.  We have a destiny to fulfill... to make the world safe.

@skeeter

See what I mean?

[Mad Max]

The Pentagon needs to figure out how will we will neutralize the 10,000 artillery pieces aimed at Seoul.Most of the artillery pieces are already in place, camouflaged and dug in. But we can cut the lines of communication between Kim Il Jung and his commanders.If they do not receive his orders ,they will be unable to carry out an attack. I am sure that we have studied all of the possible scenarios over the decades.They have also had since 1953 to figure out all the scenarios we might take. But maybe the North Koreans have figured out that this would be the plan of attack by the United States and set up some sort of "back channel" with his field commanders. Possibly some sort of "dead hand" system exists between the North Korean leadership and the commanders out in the field. If the leadership is destroyed, but the field commanders will carry out their last instructions. The Russians had a "dead hand" system that in case the Russian leadership is destroyed their nuclear missiles will automatically trigger a launch. Whether or not it exists its unclear. Putin might have reactivated the system.We used to have something similar called The Emergency Rocket Communications System (ERCS). That was dismantled in 1991.

[Wingnut]

@skeeter

See what I mean?

Perhaps it might be better, edpc if you were more concerned with the American People than with our image in the history books.

[Mad Max]

The Pentagon needs to figure out how will we will neutralize the 10,000 artillery pieces aimed at Seoul.Most of the artillery pieces are already in place, camouflaged and dug in. But we can cut the lines of communication between Kim Il Jung and his commanders.If they do not receive his orders ,they will be unable to carry out an attack. I am sure that we have studied all of the possible scenarios over the decades.They have also had since 1953 to figure out all the scenarios we might take. But maybe the North Koreans have figured out that this would be the plan of attack by the United States and set up some sort of "back channel" with his field commanders. Possibly some sort of "dead hand" system exists between the North Korean leadership and the commanders out in the field. If the leadership is destroyed, but the field commanders will carry out their last instructions. The Russians had a "dead hand" system that in case the Russian leadership is destroyed their nuclear missiles will automatically trigger a launch. Whether or not it exists its unclear. Putin might have reactivated the system.We used to have something similar called The Emergency Rocket Communications System (ERCS). That was dismantled in 1991.

I doubt that they may have an  effective guidance system unless they have figured out that part already. The North Koreans may have been supplied by China,Russia or Iran to solve that problem. The biggest problem is that North Korea might share their data with Iran. Iran and North Korea have a treaty together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93North_Korea_relations

[driftdiver]

I doubt that they may have an  effective guidance system unless they have figured out that part already. The North Koreans may have been supplied by China,Russia or Iran to solve that problem. The biggest problem is that North Korea might share their data with Iran. Iran and North Korea have a treaty together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93North_Korea_relations

They also share technical resources aka people.

[Mad Max]

They also share technical resources aka people.

They have been close partners since 1979.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/the-iran-north-korea-connection/

[Bigun]

Clinton gave missle tecnology to China way back in the 90s.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/265200/flashback-bill-clinton-gave-china-missile-matthew-vadum

And a couple of nuclear power plants as well.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/06/you-can-thank-jimmy-carter-and-bill-clinton-for-north-koreas-nukes/

[EC]

I doubt that they may have an  effective guidance system unless they have figured out that part already. The North Koreans may have been supplied by China,Russia or Iran to solve that problem. The biggest problem is that North Korea might share their data with Iran. Iran and North Korea have a treaty together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93North_Korea_relations

It's North Korea. They've got the most effective guidance system known available to them.

Homing beacons.

Just because we don't use it (unless as a last resort) because it's a suicide mission, doesn't mean they can't or won't.

[Mad Max]

https://www.rand.org/pubs/occasional_papers/OP351.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Iran_relations
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/nuclear-expert-china-has-sold-iran-long-range-missile-technology-video/
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-06-22/news/9506220151_1_missile-technology-control-regime-pakistan-and-iran-ballistic-missiles
https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-56873731.html

 

[edpc]

The Pentagon needs to figure out how will we will neutralize the 10,000 artillery pieces aimed at Seoul.Most of the artillery pieces are already in place, camouflaged and dug in.

This threat is overblown.  Seoul is more than 30 mi from the border.  The Norks have one model that reach that far with rocket assisted shells.  They don't have many and the 170 mm size makes the rate of fire slow.  They'd be spotted and hit with counter battery fire and air strikes quickly.  They're more vulnerable to missiles, but the Norks need time to fuel them.  They can't remain fueled indefinitely, since its corrosive.

[Mad Max]

It's North Korea. They've got the most effective guidance system known available to them.

Homing beacons.

Just because we don't use it (unless as a last resort) because it's a suicide mission, doesn't mean they can't or won't.

They must be using Chinese satellites for their guidance systems.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/north-korea-using-chinas-satellites-guide-its-missiles-20810

[Victoria33]

Don't make it true.   Duck and Cover baby.

@Wingnut

Doesn't make what true? 

[Mad Max]

This threat is overblown.  Seoul is more than 30 mi from the border.  The Norks have one model that reach that far with rocket assisted shells.  They don't have many and the 170 mm size makes the rate of fire slow.  They'd be spotted and hit with counter battery fire and air strikes quickly.  They're more vulnerable to missiles, but the Norks need time to fuel them.  They can't remain fueled indefinitely, since its corrosive.

I really think is a threat because its figures so prominently in the literature such as Stratfor and Popular Mechanics.Some estimates suggest that the Korean People’s Army could hit Seoul with at least 500,000 shells in less than an hour. The U.S. and its allies could destroy the North’s artillery units eventually, but not before the destruction of South Korea’s capital. The damage could be even worse if the North Koreans decided to use chemical rounds.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a6211/north-korea-conflict-weapon
http://www.businessinsider.com/3-maps-that-outline-north-koreas-military-might-2016-2
https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/how-north-korea-would-retaliate

[Wingnut]

@Wingnut

Doesn't make what true?

Try to keep up.  Clemenceau once said about war that it was to important to be left to the generals. This is now a  de hombre a hombre fight.    Trump vs Kim.  Cage match with nukes.   

[kevindavis007]

What ever happened to 'speak softly and carry a big stick'? I guess you speak loudly if you have a tiny.. hand...

In the past, there used to be no doubt of our power. We didn't need to brag, we just were (maybe pop off a few tests here and there as a reminder). Lil'Kim is nuts though, words will do noting for a crazy guy like him.

Maybe Trump is playing the crazy angle. If China thinks our leader is as crazy as Lil'Kim, they may take care of the problem before we pop off some nukes south of their border.

If I was Trump I would tell China that if you take out the Kim family, tariffs won't be raised.

[edpc]

Perhaps it might be better, edpc if you were more concerned with the American People than with our image in the history books.

I am - most specifically the Americans that are most at risk - those under command of the CiC.  Being a former one, I'm a bit tired of them dying in vain for police actions, domino theories, Somali warlords, wag the dog bs, and nation building.