Dandelion: an audacious and radical geothermal energy startup?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Move over, Waymo; here’s the next spinoff out of X, Google parent Alphabet’s “moonshot factory” -- Dandelion, a new company that will install ground source heat pumps that they claim are “affordable and accessible to homeowners.” According to the press release,

X "incubates new breakthroughs in science or technology that, we hope, could solve huge problems that affect millions of people. Our inventors, engineers, designers, and makers apply audacious thinking and radical new technology to huge problems.”

So what is the problem that Dandelion is solving, and what is the audacious thinking and radical new technology?

In the U.S., buildings account for 39% of all carbon emissions, and the majority of these emissions come from heating and cooling. Dandelion's solution will cost consumers around half of what geothermal installations have cost to date and be less expensive than fuel oil or propane heating.

Dandelion is selling a ground source heat pump system, which is not exactly audacious. But they have developed a special drill designed specifically for the purpose that makes smaller holes more quickly, cutting the installation time significantly. They also have “no money down” financing.

Is it a radical new technology? It doesn’t really seem like it, but we really do not have enough information from their website. I was also a bit disappointed that they use the word "geothermal" which I have always thought should be used for systems like they have in Iceland, but Dandelion tells us that there is pretty much a consensus in the industry that heat pumps can be called Geothermal.


https://www.treehugger.com/energy-efficiency/dandelion-audacious-and-radical-geothermal-energy-startup.html

Interesting concept.  Small footprint.

[Free Vulcan]

Geothermal or underground is a good system. The big problem is the installation costs. If you can reduce that dramatically, it would make it a very viable option for the mass market.

[Sanguine]

Geothermal or underground is a good system. The big problem is the installation costs. If you can reduce that dramatically, it would make it a very viable option for the mass market.

Agreed.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Geothermal or underground is a good system. The big problem is the installation costs. If you can reduce that dramatically, it would make it a very viable option for the mass market.

As long as it is just heat, not fluids that is extracted, I agree.

I used to work geothermal projects in Indonesia where we produced steam to run turbines.  The water produced was filled with heavy metals and other bad particulates that required a significant effort for disposal.

[Suppressed]

Geothermal or underground is a good system. The big problem is the installation costs. If you can reduce that dramatically, it would make it a very viable option for the mass market.

Another big problem is that unless they are very shallow (using solar energy heating the ground) or very deep (using very deep geothermal source), the effectiveness tails off as the heat is withdrawn.  The wells "recharge" only as fast as the thermal conductivity allows the gradient to flatten, analogous to how a groundwater well "recharges" based on the hydraulic conductivity.

[Free Vulcan]

Another big problem is that unless they are very shallow (using solar energy heating the ground) or very deep (using very deep geothermal source), the effectiveness tails off as the heat is withdrawn.  The wells "recharge" only as fast as the thermal conductivity allows the gradient to flatten, analogous to how a groundwater well "recharges" based on the hydraulic conductivity.

I'd expect that they'd be better with cooling than heating, but if combined with some supplemental solar would be a great system for house heat.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Another big problem is that unless they are very shallow (using solar energy heating the ground) or very deep (using very deep geothermal source), the effectiveness tails off as the heat is withdrawn.  The wells "recharge" only as fast as the thermal conductivity allows the gradient to flatten, analogous to how a groundwater well "recharges" based on the hydraulic conductivity.

That is why geothermal wells invariably produce steam that carries the heat.

The best mechanism to convey the heat is a distributive network i.e.-fractures, to provide as much contact as possible between fluids and formation.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I'd expect that they'd be better with cooling than heating, but if combined with some supplemental solar would be a great system for house heat.

Actually, it's the other way around.  When it's 95 degrees out, I'm trying to lower that inside by less than 20 degrees.  When it's 0 degrees out, you're trying to raise the temp in your house by like 70 degrees.  The efficiency is more pronounced when there's more work to be done.

I looked at it here in FL where I spend about $60 a month on A/C.  No way I could ever re-coup the investment.

A friend in IA just install geo for his new house.  He's paying almost nothing in the winter to heat his place, and loving it.

[Joe Wooten]

Actually, it's the other way around.  When it's 95 degrees out, I'm trying to lower that inside by less than 20 degrees.  When it's 0 degrees out, you're trying to raise the temp in your house by like 70 degrees.  The efficiency is more pronounced when there's more work to be done.

I looked at it here in FL where I spend about $60 a month on A/C.  No way I could ever re-coup the investment.

A friend in IA just install geo for his new house.  He's paying almost nothing in the winter to heat his place, and loving it.

When we built our house in Texas, I looked seriously into the geothermal systems various vendors were hawking back in the early 1990's. The cheapest one cost almost $30K and would never have paid back the initial investment. The one thing I did do was have aluminum foil stapled to the inside of the roof sheathing. This reflected back the heat and made the attic about 30 degrees cooler in the summer. The downside to this was that you DID NOT get up on the roof on a hot day. The shingles got very, very soft by early afternoon.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

When we built our house in Texas, I looked seriously into the geothermal systems various vendors were hawking back in the early 1990's. The cheapest one cost almost $30K and would never have paid back the initial investment. The one thing I did do was have aluminum foil stapled to the inside of the roof sheathing. This reflected back the heat and made the attic about 30 degrees cooler in the summer. The downside to this was that you DID NOT get up on the roof on a hot day. The shingles got very, very soft by early afternoon.

Great tip, thanks.  When I had my roof deck replaced I went with radiant barrier sheathing, which is basically plywood with thick aluminum foil already attached.

[Free Vulcan]

Actually, it's the other way around.  When it's 95 degrees out, I'm trying to lower that inside by less than 20 degrees.  When it's 0 degrees out, you're trying to raise the temp in your house by like 70 degrees.  The efficiency is more pronounced when there's more work to be done.

I looked at it here in FL where I spend about $60 a month on A/C.  No way I could ever re-coup the investment.

A friend in IA just install geo for his new house.  He's paying almost nothing in the winter to heat his place, and loving it.

Interesting, thanks for the explanation.