Death Of Senate GOP Health Care Bill Is Giving Conservatives A Good Reason To Never Vote Republican Again

[Hoodat]

I blame the liberals who won't vote for anything that looks remotely like repeal, and I blame those conservatives who won't support anything less than full repeal.

At this point, I think Conservatives would have settled for any level of repeal.  Unfortunately, the McConnell bill offered none.

[roamer_1]

Wake me up if that ever happens.

I'm pretty sure I will never see that in my lifetime.

Nope, Ya sure won't. It's the so called 'moderates' that are running this show, teamed up with a liberal President... That is a far more likely union, as they blame Conservatives for not getting things done.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Yep, but I can't put all the blame on Trump.  I think Trump would have signed any bill.  He doesn't have a grasp of, shall we say, intricacies.

Cruz has a great grasp of those and his amendment totally redeemed the bill as far as I'm concerned.  It wasn't repeal but it would have led to appeal.

If anyone's to blame it's the Senate squishes.

I've never been a fan of Senator Cruz, although I would have voted for him for President...and in fact he won my state primary.  A difference between President Trump and President Cruz would be that President Cruz shutdown the government 2 years ago to defund Obamacare, and today President Cruz would be fighting to repeal Obamacare instead of sitting on the sidelines waiting and looking pitifully weak and useless.  JMHO.

[Emjay]

Bull crap.
I am under no obligation WHATSOEVER to join with you and vote for 'the candidate' just because he has a big, fat, greasy 'R' next to his name... I never was so encumbered, and especially now, as I am no longer a Republican at all *SPIT!*  Screw that. Go have your silly little social club somewhere else, as I will never vote against my conscience again. I REFUSE to continue to keep putting feckless men into that or any other office.

You want my vote, It ain't hard. Give me something to vote *FOR*

You didn't have to say 'bull crap'  It was self evident.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

True, @corbe.  I mean ... outside of Texas, Cruz was a virtual unknown.

And could you also say that of some other candidate, say Jimmy Carter?

That is a total BS remark, to say that because someone is 'unknown' he must not be that good at attracting votes.  Does 'Obama' ring any bells with you at all?

[roamer_1]

Health insurance will NEVER be affordable as long as there is no reform of Tort laws and skyrocketing costs of medicines and medical equipment.  Doctors run the insane asylum of medicine and lawyers run congress. Between the two, nothing will get accomplished.

Health care will never be affordable anyway. It's a pipe dream. It is not cheaper for someone else to pay your bills for you. It can't be. Indemnity HAS TO cost something.
Protecting the medical community from law suits will only give us shoddier care.
Protecting the insurance companies from law suits will just increase their profits and may actually cost more.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The challenge for any politician is to try to convince those people who don't already agree with them.  I love pretty much everything Cruz says, and I'm sure a lot of his voters/supporters in Texas do as well.  The problem is that Texas voters are much more conservative than most voters in other states, so if you want to appeal to voters in other states, you can't just throw raw meat at those who already support you.

That's what Reagan was a master at -- he preached conservatism in a way that appealed to people who didn't even identify as conservatives.

That is just all spin.

Change what you said and insert the words 'liberal' for 'conservative', 'Illinois' for 'Texas' and 'Obama' for 'Cruz'.

Most of America is conservative bent, and there it is - you saying no way would anybody outside of Illinois for vote such a liberal as Obama.

But guess what?  He won.  And so can Cruz, regardless of your pessimism.

[INVAR]

Nope, Ya sure won't. It's the so called 'moderates' that are running this show, teamed up with a liberal President... That is a far more likely union, as they blame Conservatives for not getting things done.

As I am reading even here, the blame is being pinned on Principled Conservatives speaking against compromise anonymously, on forum message boards.

Not the actual Liberal morons in the Senate who are Democrat Leftists in disguise that actually cast the votes.

No.  You and me.  The mob thinks they can pin the 'failure' on us.

[roamer_1]

As I am reading even here, the blame is being pinned on Principled Conservatives speaking against compromise anonymously, on forum message boards.

Not the actual Liberal morons in the Senate who are Democrat Leftists in disguise that actually cast the votes.

No.  You and me.  The mob thinks they can pin the 'failure' on us.

A simply amazing breach of logic, isn't it?

[RoosGirl]

A simply amazing breach of logic, isn't it?

It is wholly shocking since the blame for conservatives comes from people who claim to be conservative. You know what it is?  They just aren't pragmatic enough to accept our point of view.:)

[Fantom]

At this point, I think Conservatives would have settled for any level of repeal.  Unfortunately, the McConnell bill offered none.

Well, Teds amendment offered an off-ramp.

However, it is clear that too many democrats are in the republican party. Including a few who make Peloser look like Reagan...Collins/Mcaskill.... Remember it was the Collins twin who fell on her sword and let obamacare be birthed.

I think, maybe it is far better to fail at this point(as a tactic)...then  use the discretion/power of the Secretary of Health in the law..over 1400 references as too His discretion. Who can say that the Secretary of Health does not see fit to allow Teds plans and buying across State lines as appropriate.

Obey the Law.. all the while hanging it , like a milestone upon the democrat neck. Come back in 2018 with 56-62 Senators..... then the Collins democrats have far less power.

[roamer_1]

It is wholly shocking since the blame for conservatives comes from people who claim to be conservative. You know what it is?  They just aren't pragmatic enough to accept our point of view.:)

 
Yeah, that's it, exactly!

 

[Suppressed]

Health care will never be affordable anyway. It's a pipe dream.

1970 care, pre-MRI, computed tomography, etc., is cheap. It's the demand for better and better that is the primary driver of costs, and everyone wants better and better care but doesn't want to pay more and more.

[Fantom]

1970 care, pre-MRI, computed tomography, etc., is cheap. It's the demand for better and better that is the primary driver of costs, and everyone wants better and better care but doesn't want to pay more and more.

Health care.. top of the line is not that expensive.


What IS expensive, is providing such to everyone who cannot pay for it. Cost shifting medicaid to self insured by hospitals for example. That is not dogging on hospitals as it is government policy which causes it.

Government cannot mandate top self treatment, at fire sale reimbursement, without someone being forced to carry the load.

[roamer_1]

1970 care, pre-MRI, computed tomography, etc., is cheap. It's the demand for better and better that is the primary driver of costs, and everyone wants better and better care but doesn't want to pay more and more.

nevermind that 70's care works just as well for the lion's share of things.

My first kid cost me 15k, because I was young and stupid enough to listen to the doctors.
The rest cost about $1500 each. The midwife was extremely competent, and the home delivery far more comfortable, or so my wife said.

The difference, both in stress and money, is profound. Whether one might defend it by 'just being safe' or as a confidence game (my own opinion), I paid for that for over half a decade. And I resent it, entirely.

[Fantom]

nevermind that 70's care works just as well for the lion's share of things.

My first kid cost me 15k, because I was young and stupid enough to listen to the doctors.
The rest cost about $1500 each. The midwife was extremely competent, and the home delivery far more comfortable, or so my wife said.

The difference, both in stress and money, is profound. Whether one might defend it by 'just being safe' or as a confidence game (my own opinion), I paid for that for over half a decade. And I resent it, entirely.

I have found driving real fast to the Hospital and abruptly slamming on the brakes will save the $1500.00... at worst  buck fifty for gas.

Seriously, it is more than birthing. Prenatal is something I would never have denied my kids.

 

[roamer_1]

I have found driving real fast to the Hospital and abruptly slamming on the brakes will save the $1500.00... at worst  buck fifty for gas.

Seriously, it is more than birthing. Prenatal is something I would never have denied my kids.

I didn't deny my kids anything. They received very competent prenatal care.
fifteen-hundred bucks, cash-on-the-barrel-head... That is a real and reasonable cost for a birth.
In normal conditions, you're getting no different from a doctor...

With the exception of the extra cost that comes from scaring the crap out of you... OMG!!! test test test!!! OMG!!! They induced my wife, telling us the baby was way too big. Then the c-section, because her body wasn't ready for the birth... And the boy came out 8lbs 9, and covered in cheese (indicates premature), smaller even than his sisters, who were born later, naturally.

No doubt about it. Confidence game. The spinabiffida scare, the german measles scare, the twins scare, the low blood pressure scare, the high blood pressure scare, the too big scare, the whole thing kept us off balance and frightened all the way along, and appealing to authority to fix it... That's how a confidence game works. And every bit of it padded the bill, and sent us to the big money in the surgery. Bullshit.

[RoosGirl]

I have found driving real fast to the Hospital and abruptly slamming on the brakes will save the $1500.00... at worst  buck fifty for gas.

Seriously, it is more than birthing. Prenatal is something I would never have denied my kids.

I got better prenatal care from my midwife than from one of the top ob/gyn firms in town.

[RoosGirl]

I didn't deny my kids anything. They received very competent prenatal care.
fifteen-hundred bucks, cash-on-the-barrel-head... That is a real and reasonable cost for a birth.
In normal conditions, you're getting no different from a doctor...

With the exception of the extra cost that comes from scaring the crap out of you... OMG!!! test test test!!! OMG!!! They induced my wife, telling us the baby was way too big. Then the c-section, because her body wasn't ready for the birth... And the boy came out 8lbs 9, and covered in cheese (indicates premature), smaller even than his sisters, who were born later, naturally.

No doubt about it. Confidence game. The spinabiffida scare, the german measles scare, the twins scare, the low blood pressure scare, the high blood pressure scare, the too big scare, the whole thing kept us off balance and frightened all the way along, and appealing to authority to fix it... That's how a confidence game works. And every bit of it padded the bill, and sent us to the big money in the surgery. Bullshit.

We went through the same thing, except I was "advanced maternal age" so add that on as well.  I stayed with the ob/gyn through the first trimester and they "fired" me because I wouldn't take antibiotics because I tested positive for a bladder infection,  but a retest a week later I didn't.  I was already planning on switching to midwife care though, so I didn't care.

[TomSea]

Three words:

Could've.

Had.

Cruz.

What has Cruz done in the 5 years he's been in the Senate, he has done nothing, the true "conservatives" helped give us Obama because Romney wasn't good enough.  The True Conservatives are as useful as horns on a bull or something like that.

Yeah, first Cruz was going to design the ideal healthcare bill, then his amendment was suppose to fix things, in the end he did little.

And on top of that, it's highly doubtful he would win states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  He could win barely anywhere in the Deep South, but the True Conservatives still know better.

This Senate is the least effective one they say in 65 years or something. Oh, yeah, they would have fixed it.

[TomSea]

I've never been a fan of Senator Cruz, although I would have voted for him for President...and in fact he won my state primary.  A difference between President Trump and President Cruz would be that President Cruz shutdown the government 2 years ago to defund Obamacare, and today President Cruz would be fighting to repeal Obamacare instead of sitting on the sidelines waiting and looking pitifully weak and useless.  JMHO.

Cruz says he didn't shut down the government, those are his own words. I'm not sure why he denies it.

http://www.rawstory.com/2014/01/veteran-cbs-host-laughs-in-cruzs-face-after-he-repeatedly-denies-shutting-down-government/

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/ted-cruz-government-shutdown-100740

Somewhere teamwork counts for something, I might not mind if he shut the government down but if he denies it, maybe he feels it makes him unpopular.

[RoosGirl]

What has Cruz done in the 5 years he's been in the Senate, he has done nothing, the true "conservatives" helped give us Obama because Romney wasn't good enough.  The True Conservatives are as useful as horns on a bull or something like that.

Yeah, first Cruz was going to design the ideal healthcare bill, then his amendment was suppose to fix things, in the end he did little.

And on top of that, it's highly doubtful he would win states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.  He could win barely anywhere in the Deep South, but the True Conservatives still know better.

This Senate is the least effective one they say in 65 years or something. Oh, yeah, they would have fixed it.

Really?  And I say the liberal republicans gave us McCain, Romney and Obama by giving us conservatives nothing of value to vote for.  Y'all really do need to learn pragmatism and how to get us conservatives on board.

[INVAR]

What has Cruz done in the 5 years he's been in the Senate, he has done nothing, the true "conservatives" helped give us Obama because Romney wasn't good enough.  The True Conservatives are as useful as horns on a bull or something like that.

You and your party leaders told us to shut up or get the eff out of your party.

So we're done and gone.   

It was liberating to finally vote FOR someone who shared my principles rather than vote for a liberal as a check against a lesser evil.   

I frankly don't give a rat's ass your party and the majority of the people in the country want Socialism.  I'm not going to go along with 80% Statism in the vain hope of getting maybe, perhaps 20% of something that could be described by the media as Conservative.

So we owe your party jack shit. 

We are not responsible for the fact you keep choosing liberals to rule you.  Even those who were lifelong Liberal Democrats you convinced yourselves were going to be your saviors.

[Emjay]

And could you also say that of some other candidate, say Jimmy Carter?

That is a total BS remark, to say that because someone is 'unknown' he must not be that good at attracting votes.  Does 'Obama' ring any bells with you at all?

Do you realize how many votes people get simply because of name recognition?

I'm talking about the primaries in which Trump had a huge head start because people knew who he was, or at least knew who he claimed to be.

Calling other people's posts total BS is not particularly a good way to make friends unless you don't want any.

[roamer_1]

We went through the same thing, except I was "advanced maternal age" so add that on as well.  I stayed with the ob/gyn through the first trimester and they "fired" me because I wouldn't take antibiotics because I tested positive for a bladder infection,  but a retest a week later I didn't.  I was already planning on switching to midwife care though, so I didn't care.

That was my first walk down the medical garden path. I smelled it, I swear I did... But a wife worried for her baby is hard to overrule. That's the beauty of it for them. it's a magnificent scam. And stupid crazy profits to be had.

But my ex wised up after the first one and really not much of it was me. The experience left her feeling violated and less of a woman for not being able to bear a child as she should. She wanted what they took from her back.

Then came the rope em in scare: "Oh, you've had a c-section... bearing naturally is not a good idea for you - At least be in the hospital, so if something were to happen, care is close by"

It was all bullcrap, and she delivered naturally, without incident, and got her mojo back.