Author Topic: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers  (Read 25676 times)

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Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #375 on: July 12, 2017, 10:53:36 pm »
At one point in time, I was the only conservative in my Church, except for one friend.  She stopped going to the Bible Class because it was totally liberal.  I hung in there but I actually heard a priest's wife say that she wished there was some way we could stop the Koch Brothers from taking Communion.  I kid you not.

And nobody said a dam word.

But my friend died and I left the Mainland so who the heck knows what goes on there now.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Mom MD

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #376 on: July 12, 2017, 10:56:48 pm »
But my friend died and I left the Mainland so who the heck knows what goes on there now.

You might try the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.  Conservative biblical teaching with the beautiful traditional liturgies
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #377 on: July 12, 2017, 10:56:54 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Can't answer that one, huh?   Understandable.   :laugh: 

Nah, @CatherineofAragon   I've read a few of your posts today ... and you are in a fighting mood!  I'm not.

Thanks.   :seeya:

Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #378 on: July 12, 2017, 10:58:59 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Okay, I'll bite.  The majority of people on this forum, and I would say beyond it, are willing to judge Trump on a day-to-day basis...recognize his successes and condemn his screw-ups.  How do those people qualify as "NeverTrumpers?"  Even if they dislike the man, as I do, doesn't NeverTrump mean you refuse to give him credit if he does something decent?

You speak of the 2 polor opposites both of which are drowning in their own hatred of others not like them. The true Nevertrumpers....people that really really hate the man and everything he does.Most of those are on the Left, but not all. Then you have those that hold him up as a messianic figure, who can do no wrong, and anyone who speaks ill of him is doing the devils work.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 11:00:06 pm by NavyCanDo »
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Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #379 on: July 12, 2017, 11:00:52 pm »
You might try the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod.  Conservative biblical teaching with the beautiful traditional liturgies

Thanks.  There is a good Episcopal Church here and it's entirely different.  One drawback.  It is the Church by the Sea and it is outdoors with stone benches for pews and not enough shade.  I haven't been able to go all summer.  They open the service with a conch shell and do every fourth Sunday in Hawaiian. 
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Mom MD

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #380 on: July 12, 2017, 11:04:22 pm »
Sounds lovely!
God is still in control

Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #381 on: July 12, 2017, 11:06:01 pm »
Sounds lovely!

It is beyond beautiful in every way.  Unfortunately, I'm not able to stand the heat anymore.  It should start getting cooler in September.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #382 on: July 12, 2017, 11:12:47 pm »
Nah, @CatherineofAragon   I've read a few of your posts today ... and you are in a fighting mood!  I'm not.

Thanks.   :seeya:

@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah, taking crap isn't my thing, never will be.  But my post to you was a simple question, not a fight.  You're trying to misrepresent it because you're at a loss for an answer.

Like I said, I get it.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #383 on: July 12, 2017, 11:12:57 pm »
Wherever two or more of you are gathered, I am among you.

So you sit around your house talking about only you have the Truth.   ah yep  tell me again how much evangelical and fundamentalist churches are growing using this model?

Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #384 on: July 12, 2017, 11:14:14 pm »
You speak of the 2 polor opposites both of which are drowning in their own hatred of others not like them. The true Nevertrumpers....people that really really hate the man and everything he does.Most of those are on the Left, but not all. Then you have those that hold him up as a messianic figure, who can do no wrong, and anyone who speaks ill of him is doing the devils work.

@NavyCanDo

True.  I would add that, to some, anything less than unqualified praise translates to NeverTrump status.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #385 on: July 12, 2017, 11:14:59 pm »
So you sit around your house talking about only you have the Truth.   ah yep  tell me again how much evangelical and fundamentalist churches are growing using this model?

Well, don't you have to have some kind of truth in order to have a religion? 

Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #386 on: July 12, 2017, 11:15:29 pm »
Neither are Trump suck ups

@txradioguy
Where are the suckups?   I haven't seen that behavior for a couple months,
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #387 on: July 12, 2017, 11:16:13 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah, taking crap isn't my thing, never will be.  But my post to you was a simple question, not a fight.  You're trying to misrepresent it because you're at a loss for an answer.  Like I said, I get it.

You proved my point @CatherineofAragon ... you're in a fighting mood.  There's nothing wrong with that ... but I am growing weary of fighting.

Insult me .. goad me ... ridicule me if you must, but you will not change my mind.

Again, thank you.   :seeya:

Offline Mom MD

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #388 on: July 12, 2017, 11:16:29 pm »
It is beyond beautiful in every way.  Unfortunately, I'm not able to stand the heat anymore.  It should start getting cooler in September.

You could bring back the parasol!  (I think Melania would look lovely with one as well)
God is still in control

Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #389 on: July 12, 2017, 11:22:31 pm »
At one point in time, I was the only conservative in my Church, except for one friend.  She stopped going to the Bible Class because it was totally liberal.  I hung in there but I actually heard a priest's wife say that she wished there was some way we could stop the Koch Brothers from taking Communion.  I kid you not.

And nobody said a dam word.

@Emjay

I was an elder in a Presbyterian USA church.  I walked out after they rejected buying bibles for the kids but were openly discussing accepting abortion and homosexual leaders.   There is a falling away happening and its all tied to the same behaviors.   The leftists have used the same tactics against the church as they have against conservatism.   The same old tired tactics continue to fail on both sides.

Demonize the sinner and force them out.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #390 on: July 12, 2017, 11:23:31 pm »
@txradioguy
Where are the suckups?   I haven't seen that behavior for a couple months,

That would be the people that fawn over everything Trump does and thinks he walks on water.

Same people defend everything he says and does.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Mom MD

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #391 on: July 12, 2017, 11:25:22 pm »
@Emjay

I was an elder in a Presbyterian USA church.  I walked out after they rejected buying bibles for the kids but were openly discussing accepting abortion and homosexual leaders.   There is a falling away happening and its all tied to the same behaviors.   The leftists have used the same tactics against the church as they have against conservatism.   The same old tired tactics continue to fail on both sides.

Demonize the sinner and force them out.

Actually I think the mainline churches are losing because they now celebrate the sin and try to win popularity contests with the worldly
God is still in control

Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #392 on: July 12, 2017, 11:41:15 pm »
That would be the people that fawn over everything Trump does and thinks he walks on water.

Same people defend everything he says and does.

@txradioguy
Again, I remember seeing those people.  Haven't seen any lately.    I do think the hyperventilating over every little thing is a stupid waste of time.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #393 on: July 12, 2017, 11:59:10 pm »
Actually I think the mainline churches are losing because they now celebrate the sin and try to win popularity contests with the worldly

@Mom MD
The tactics i was referring to are the "fundamentalist" tactic of showing 'love' by beating them with their sin.  In most cases it hardens peoples heart and turns them away.  Delivery is everything of course.

The research I did along with that of far more knowledgable church leaders point to a couple of reasons for the overall decline.  Part of it is what you mentioned.   They start accepting sin and saying it isn't sin.   That turns people away.   The very traditional service also is a factor.   Older people like what they are comfortable with but the younger generation is bored to death and you cannot engage them.   One pastor explained it that God gave us the words but left delivery to us (words vs music).      You simply cannot reach people if you cannot engage them. 

To try and bring this back on topic, the typical Conservative expect people to listen because our ideas make sense.  They are tried and proven and are what has made this country great.  Whereas the left plays on emotion and what feels good.    Its much easier to win people over if you tell them your way is easy vs telling them its hard work.

Conservatives must change our messaging if we are to win over the younger generation.  History has also shown that people will vote in the socialist policies.  I believe it was Jefferson who noted that the country will be lost when people discover they can vote themselves money from the govt.

To bring someone to Jesus takes an average of 9 interactions where the concept of salvation is introduced.   A similar number is typical in any sales process.  Our children are not taught conservative ideals in public schools.  If we want to keep our country we need to change our approach.   
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #394 on: July 13, 2017, 12:03:39 am »
A couple of more chapters, for your "So what?"

Again, what's your point?

Offline Mom MD

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #395 on: July 13, 2017, 12:05:47 am »
@Mom MD
The tactics i was referring to are the "fundamentalist" tactic of showing 'love' by beating them with their sin.  In most cases it hardens peoples heart and turns them away.  Delivery is everything of course.

The research I did along with that of far more knowledgable church leaders point to a couple of reasons for the overall decline.  Part of it is what you mentioned.   They start accepting sin and saying it isn't sin.   That turns people away.   The very traditional service also is a factor.   Older people like what they are comfortable with but the younger generation is bored to death and you cannot engage them.   One pastor explained it that God gave us the words but left delivery to us (words vs music).      You simply cannot reach people if you cannot engage them. 

To try and bring this back on topic, the typical Conservative expect people to listen because our ideas make sense.  They are tried and proven and are what has made this country great.  Whereas the left plays on emotion and what feels good.    Its much easier to win people over if you tell them your way is easy vs telling them its hard work.

Conservatives must change our messaging if we are to win over the younger generation.  History has also shown that people will vote in the socialist policies.  I believe it was Jefferson who noted that the country will be lost when people discover they can vote themselves money from the govt.

To bring someone to Jesus takes an average of 9 interactions where the concept of salvation is introduced.   A similar number is typical in any sales process.  Our children are not taught conservative ideals in public schools.  If we want to keep our country we need to change our approach.

I think society and the young are crying out for firm values and solid ground.   They recognize we are drifting aimlessly and the smart ones at least recognize the need for a firm foundation and real values.  Maybe I'm kidding myself but I think we need to hold firm and the truth will speak for itself.  But yes we need to deliver the message patiently lovingly and often.  And young people will know and recognize hypocrisy and scamming them instantly
God is still in control

Offline roamer_1

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #396 on: July 13, 2017, 12:07:49 am »
So you sit around your house talking about only you have the Truth.   ah yep  tell me again how much evangelical and fundamentalist churches are growing using this model?

Who said I 'sit around my house'?

Offline EasyAce

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #397 on: July 13, 2017, 12:17:54 am »
You speak of the 2 polor opposites both of which are drowning in their own hatred of others not like them. The true Nevertrumpers....people that really really hate the man and everything he does. Most of those are on the Left, but not all. Then you have those that hold him up as a messianic figure, who can do no wrong, and anyone who speaks ill of him is doing the devils work.
In absolute fairness, Donaldus Minimus isn't even close to being the first president to whose sycophancy
no wrong can be done and no criticism can be honest or honourable. Nor is he the first president to whose
opposition no credit whatsoever can be due. And, alas, he won't be the last.

Since there seems to be an epidemic of whataboutism here and elsewhere, I'll contribute only by reminding
anyone who cares that we saw the same syndromes attached to the sycophancies and oppositions to His
Excellency Al-Hashish Field Marshmallow Dr. Barack Obama Dada, President Lips II, and Droopy-Drawers
Clinton, to name merely three. To their sycophancies, they could do no wrong. To their opponents, they
could do no right.

The real problem---aside from the president himself, who seems to have a genius for following one or two
reasonable doings with one or two hundred (if not thousand) unreasonable ones---is that we're still stuck
in presidential cult mode, gazing upon the office and its holder as some sort of temporal saviour . . . if not
our boss. The sooner we cease to live in presidential cult mode, the sooner we might actually see a tangible
turn toward, you know, restoring things that really matter.

Things like freedom.

Things like individual rights and responsibilities.

Things like a properly-construed government---you know, one whose sole legitimate business
(aside from protecting us from enemies actual or provably iminent abroad and predators at home,
real predators if you please, not mere vicemongers) is staying the hell out of your business,
my business, every person's business, until or unless one would obstruct or abrogate another's
equivalent rights---as opposed to the improperly-consecrated State that makes every damn last bit of
human business its own business whether it is competent or Constitutionally sanctioned to do so.

Donaldus Minimus is neither God, Jr. nor Beelzebub incarnate. He's only a man, he's only a president,
he's no more the nation's saviour than any other president, he's no more the devil incarnate than any
manperson seeking even a degree of a place in the nation's largest organised crime family. And he---like
his predecessors---sure as hell is not our national father, no matter what delusions he, like no
few of his predecessors, hosts in his actual or alleged brain.

But we're not going to make America "great" again until we make America America again.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 12:19:49 am by EasyAce »


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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #398 on: July 13, 2017, 12:41:57 am »
Good post.  It could only prove fatal if it succeeded in destroying the Trump administration, but, really, the general public is just not that interested in this whole Russian thing.

The people who are pushing it are part of what Rush was saying this morning:  "There is a coup underway -- being led by the media with accomplices in the Democrat Party and a number of international players -- to reject the outcome of the election, to undermine the presidency of Donald Trump, and, if the wish list were realized, to get rid of him."

At least that's my opinion about the Russian thing .... based mostly on my own interactions with people who are interested in politics and on my Facebook page.

My Facebook page has become totally political.  I'm missing the kitty pictures and the recipes but people just want to talk politics and they are about 90% conservative.

Not once have I seen an article posted about Russia interfering with elections.
Considering the propensity of the Left to project, to immediately accuse people of what they, themselves, have done, and that many of these were Hillary people, I'd wager any collusion with the Russians was by Hillary's camp to scuttle Sanders.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #399 on: July 13, 2017, 01:15:07 am »
Actually I think the mainline churches are losing because they now celebrate the sin and try to win popularity contests with the worldly

Christianity is based upon attraction rather than promotion.  Unfortunately, it is filled with people who promote the starting line without a clue on where to go from there.


“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father."

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