The Foolishness of Never Trumpers

[truth_seeker]

Overall church attendance is going down.  4000 churches close their door every year.

In my area, we are already "built out" and therefore infill building is the game.

Prime sites for new small subdivisions,, are now church facilities. the sizes of the congregations have dwindled. they need less space.

They sell the site, get a bundle of money, and rent space elsewhere.

I am a real estate broker, and another agent told me she has developed a specialty for a few builders. Several examples now exist.

This is in traditionally conservative Orange County CA, home of Chuck Smith's Calvary, Saddleback, Crystal Cathedral, and many others.

Building new churches is not a growth industry.

 

[roamer_1]

Overall church attendance is going down.  4000 churches close their door every year.

So what? I have hardly set foot in a 'church' for nigh on 20 years.
What's your point?

[driftdiver]

So what? I have hardly set foot in a 'church' for nigh on 20 years.
What's your point?

If you don't worship with others then you aren't following Jesus's directions. 

[roamer_1]

If you don't worship with others then you aren't following Jesus's directions.

Wherever two or more of you are gathered, I am among you.

[NavyCanDo]

How the heck did this thread on Nevertrumpers get turned into a thread on churches? Not even going to page back to see how and where this got started.

[INVAR]

So what? I have hardly set foot in a 'church' for nigh on 20 years.
What's your point?

I would have to note that the decline in church attendance does corresponds with the decline of our culture, even though there are a lot of home churches and small fellowships that have sprung up.

Societal acceptance of things antithetical to basic biblical morality more or less illustrate the trend to secular humanism and self gratification rather than reverence and obedience towards God.

[INVAR]

How the heck did this thread on Nevertrumpers get turned into a thread on churches? Not even going to page back to see how and where this got started.

Has to do with what is foolishness and why principles and morals no longer matter in defining today's Conservatism.

We're getting down to arguing about foundations and root causes - which led us to discussing religion and churches.

Because at one time, Morality and Religion were central tenets of Conservatism.


Not any more.

So we're debating that.

[Right_in_Virginia]

How the heck did this thread on Nevertrumpers get turned into a thread on churches? Not even going to page back to see how and where this got started.

"NeverTrump Foolishness" is not a popular topic of discussion around here. 

@NavyCanDo

[roamer_1]

I would have to note that the decline in church attendance does corresponds with the decline of our culture, even though there are a lot of home churches and small fellowships that have sprung up.

Societal acceptance of things antithetical to basic biblical morality more or less illustrate the trend to secular humanism and self gratification rather than reverence and obedience towards God.

Sure. there is a winnowing. Presbyterian USA is hemorrhaging, While Presby OPC and PCA are growing. The Epissmeoffcapals are dying, where the Anglicans are growing. Examples abound.

I fully expect persecution, but I will pray for revival. Do not forget, where evil abounds grace doth much more abound...

[truth_seeker]

Anti-Mormonism

Anti-Mormonism is discrimination, persecution, hostility or prejudice directed at members of the Latter Day Saint movement, particularly The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). The term is often used to describe persons or literature that are critical of their adherents, institutions, or beliefs, or physical attacks against specific Mormons or the LDS Church as a whole.

Opposition to Mormonism began before the first Latter Day Saint church was established in 1830 and continues to the present day. The most vocal and strident opposition occurred during the 19th century, particularly during the Utah War of the 1850s, and in the second half of the century when the practice of polygamy in Utah Territory was widely considered by the U.S. Republican Party as one of the "twin relics of barbarism" along with slavery.[1]

Modern-day opposition generally takes the form of websites offering alternative views about Mormonism or non-violent protest at large Latter-day Saint gatherings such as the church's biannual General Conference, outside of Latter-day Saint pageants, or at events surrounding the construction of new LDS temples. Opponents generally believe that the church's claims to divine origin are false, that it is non-Christian, or that it is a religion based on fraud or deceit on the part of its past and present leaders.

snip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Mormonism

[Silver Pines]

"NeverTrump Foolishness" is not a popular topic of discussion around here. 

@NavyCanDo

@Right_in_Virginia

Okay, I'll bite.  The majority of people on this forum, and I would say beyond it, are willing to judge Trump on a day-to-day basis...recognize his successes and condemn his screw-ups.  How do those people qualify as "NeverTrumpers?"  Even if they dislike the man, as I do, doesn't NeverTrump mean you refuse to give him credit if he does something decent?

[roamer_1]

Anti-Mormonism

So what?

[Mom MD]

@roamer_1
Love is not beating someone into submission.  Nor is it an effective way to open their mind or heart.  Instead it tends to harden most people against your message. 

This is one of the fundamental reasons so many traditional churches are losing members and will soon cease to operate.   There are other ways to communicate.

Love is also not letting someone continue in grave sin or error without pointing that out.  You would not let your toddler play in traffic because you did not want to hurt her feelings by telling her it was dangerous.  Christians live in dynamic tension in many areas, and one of those is how to speak the Truth in Love.  Both elements are necessary

[catfish1957]

Love is also not letting someone continue in grave sin or error without pointing that out.  You would not let your toddler play in traffic because you did not want to hurt her feelings by telling her it was dangerous.  Christians live in dynamic tension in many areas, and one of those is how to speak the Truth in Love.  Both elements are necessary

I hope the mods squash this thread soon.  Arguments about religion seldom end well.

[Mom MD]

I hope the mods squash this thread soon.  Arguments about religion seldom end well.

Sorry,  I was unaware I was arguing.  But yes, I think the horse being beaten at this point is truly and thoroughly dead.

[catfish1957]

Sorry,  I was unaware I was arguing.  But yes, I think the horse being beaten at this point is truly and thoroughly dead.

You weren't arguing.  (my apologies)...  Just a random post in the middle of the mess.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

Okay, I'll bite.  .../

I was stating an opinion, not looking for anyone to "bite".

Thanks anyway @CatherineofAragon

[INVAR]

I hope the mods squash this thread soon.  Arguments about religion seldom end well.

We are arguing fundamental principles of which biblical morality and religion is central to having any Conservative discussion regarding liberty.

Morality pertaining to the culture, to society and onwards to what kind of government rules us is essential to discuss, otherwise we might as well abandon Conservatism for Socialism and get it over with.

Because a government without our biblical and moral foundations gets us European-styled Mobocracy and Welfare State.

[Emjay]

I hope the mods squash this thread soon.  Arguments about religion seldom end well.

You mean like ...

[attachment deleted by admin]

[truth_seeker]

So what?

A couple of more chapters, for your "So what?"

"Anti-Catholicism"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism

"Antisemitism"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

"Baptists helping town overcome reputation as KKK birthplace"

http://www.bpnews.net/2913/baptists-helping-town-overcome-reputation-as-kkk-birthplace

[txradioguy]

"NeverTrump Foolishness" is not a popular topic of discussion around here. 

@NavyCanDo

Neither are Trump suck ups

[Emjay]

In my area, we are already "built out" and therefore infill building is the game.

Prime sites for new small subdivisions,, are now church facilities. the sizes of the congregations have dwindled. they need less space.

They sell the site, get a bundle of money, and rent space elsewhere.

I am a real estate broker, and another agent told me she has developed a specialty for a few builders. Several examples now exist.

This is in traditionally conservative Orange County CA, home of Chuck Smith's Calvary, Saddleback, Crystal Cathedral, and many others.

Building new churches is not a growth industry.

My own church, the Episcopal Church, has suffered a severe decline with Presbyterians right behind us.

It's a shame because Episcopalians are big on scripture but also scholarly.  And the Churches and rituals are beautiful.

But the Episcopal Church became far too political and too liberal.  I never left but I got severely ticked off.

[Emjay]

Neither are Trump suck ups

Oh, c'mon.  Not everyone who is willing to give Trump a chance to keep his promises is a Trump suck up.  You could probably find a more elegant phrase if you tried.

[Silver Pines]

I was stating an opinion, not looking for anyone to "bite".

Thanks anyway @CatherineofAragon

@Right_in_Virginia

Can't answer that one, huh?

Understandable.   

[Emjay]

My own church, the Episcopal Church, has suffered a severe decline with Presbyterians right behind us.

It's a shame because Episcopalians are big on scripture but also scholarly.  And the Churches and rituals are beautiful.

But the Episcopal Church became far too political and too liberal.  I never left but I got severely ticked off.

At one point in time, I was the only conservative in my Church, except for one friend.  She stopped going to the Bible Class because it was totally liberal.  I hung in there but I actually heard a priest's wife say that she wished there was some way we could stop the Koch Brothers from taking Communion.  I kid you not.

And nobody said a dam word.