The Foolishness of Never Trumpers

[driftdiver]

We should consider starting a pool for the date this thread will be locked---not given a time out --- but locked. 

I'll go with July 20.   


@DCPatriot

July 12.....if I post

[Right_in_Virginia]

July 12.....if I post

LOL!   

@driftdiver

[Jazzhead]

That's why we had 2 wedding ceremonies.  First by the judge. Second by the priest.

Exactly.  A same sex marriage is entitled to equal protection under the civil law,  but whether it is recognized by the church is no business whatsoever of the state.   

[jmyrlefuller]

We should consider starting a pool for the date this thread will be locked---not given a time out --- but locked. 

I'll go with July 20.   


@DCPatriot

I'm surprised it hasn't yet. First off, how did this get so far off track, and two, why am I agreeing with the Trump caucus (not on the original topic, but on the direction of this thread)?

[Jazzhead]

A few thoughts on the topic thread -

The Trump Jr.  e-mails ensure that the "Russia connection" meme isn't going away,  and probably now takes on the whiff of a true scandal.   The best possible spin at this point is that Trump Jr,  Manafort and Kushner were just vetting an offer of possible political dirt that was quickly dismissed as bullsh1t.  Remember, at about the same time (July 2016),  Russia was peddling crapola, through another British intermediary, about a "dossier" on Trump including his antics in a Russian hotel room.   The Dems tried to push that one for a few days,  but it quickly became clear that it was disinformation. 

Well,  the Russians appear to have been at it again, pushing disinformation to the Trump campaign and counting on that campaign's naivity and inexperience.  Their apparent intermediary, Goldman,  spelled out the source of the information and "Russia's support" for Trump, bait that Trump Jr. eager responded to with the words "I love it".    The stuff was crap,  but the Russians achieved what they wanted - an e-mail string apparently showing the Trump campaign's eagerness to get dirt even from "Russian government" sources.

It's a huge leap from "we did not collude" to "we were eager to collude but there was nothing there".   Now some, like the NYPost, are calling Trump Jr. an idiot.   But there's nothing idiotic with vetting offers of political dirt.  But this dirt was tainted from the start with a Russian label.  What is idiotic is to have a story out there that doesn't wash.  Trump Jr. is being transparent now, but why didn't the President get those e-mails out there months ago to bolster its point that it didn't collude, even though Russian baddies were trying to get to the campaign with false promises of "support"?   

Trump seems convinced of the notion that any acknowledgement of Russian dirty tricks will somehow cast aspersions on the legitimacy of his election.   To the contrary,  what may destroy his Presidency is months of denials undermined by e-mails indicating his own son was eager to get opposition research even if labeled plainly as being of Russian origin.   Trump should have gotten in front of this months ago by releasing the e-mails as evidence of Russian disinformation attempts that were vetted and REJECTED.   Instead,  the current news will, to most observers, be just seen as contradicting the Administration's own denials.    And that could, in the end, prove fatal.       

[driftdiver]

A few thoughts on the topic thread -

The Trump Jr.  e-mails ensure that the "Russia connection" meme isn't going away,  and probably now takes on the whiff of a true scandal.   The best possible spin at this point is that Trump Jr,  Manafort and Kushner were just vetting an offer of possible political dirt that was quickly dismissed as bullsh1t.  Remember, at about the same time (July 2016),  Russia was peddling crapola, through another British intermediary, about a "dossier" on Trump including his antics in a Russian hotel room.   The Dems tried to push that one for a few days,  but it quickly became clear that it was disinformation. 

Well,  the Russians appear to have been at it again, pushing disinformation to the Trump campaign and counting on that campaign's naivity and inexperience.  Their apparent intermediary, Goldman,  spelled out the source of the information and "Russia's support" for Trump, bait that Trump Jr. eager responded to with the words "I love it".    The stuff was crap,  but the Russians achieved what they wanted - an e-mail string apparently showing the Trump campaign's eagerness to get dirt even from "Russian government" sources.

It's a huge leap from "we did not collude" to "we were eager to collude but there was nothing there".   Now some, like the NYPost, are calling Trump Jr. an idiot.   But there's nothing idiotic with vetting offers of political dirt.  But this dirt was tainted from the start with a Russian label.  What is idiotic is to have a story out there that doesn't wash.  Trump Jr. is being transparent now, but why didn't the President get those e-mails out there months ago to bolster its point that it didn't collude, even though Russian baddies were trying to get to the campaign with false promises of "support"?   

Trump seems convinced of the notion that any acknowledgement of Russian dirty tricks will somehow cast aspersions on the legitimacy of his election.   To the contrary,  what may destroy his Presidency is months of denials undermined by e-mails indicating his own son was eager to get opposition research even if labeled plainly as being of Russian origin.   Trump should have gotten in front of this months ago by releasing the e-mails as evidence of Russian disinformation attempts that were vetted and REJECTED.   Instead,  the current news will, to most observers, be just seen as contradicting the Administration's own denials.    And that could, in the end, prove fatal.     

@Jazzhead
Of course the Russian meme isn't going away.  Its a lever the DNC and eGOP is using to attack Trump.   It doesn't matter that theres no crime and nothing there.  Its the seriousness of the charge.  Nor does it matter that the DNC & Hillary were doing exponentially worse things to sell out America in exchange for power.

Trump is a threat to the elite power brokers running this country into the ground. 

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
Of course the Russian meme isn't going away.  Its a lever the DNC and eGOP is using to attack Trump.   It doesn't matter that theres no crime and nothing there.  Its the seriousness of the charge.  Nor does it matter that the DNC & Hillary were doing exponentially worse things to sell out America in exchange for power.

Trump is a threat to the elite power brokers running this country into the ground.

All true.   But this is a serious turn for the worse.  As Gerald Seib wrote this morning in the WSJ:

Whatever else the stunning e-mail chain released by Donald Trump Jr. did or didn't show, it undermined the argument that the idea of Russian collusion with the Trump campaign is so ludicrous that it shouldn't be taken seriously.   Instead, in black and white, were messages showing that someone offered help from the top of the Russian government to distribute damaging information about Hillary Clinton - and that the President's own son, in  his own words, was eager to get it.  Indeed, he scheduled a meeting to receive it. 

This is gas on the fire, folks.   At stake is the entire GOP agenda.   

[driftdiver]

All true.   But this is a serious turn for the worse.  As Gerald Seib wrote this morning in the WSJ:

This is gas on the fire, folks.   At stake is the entire GOP agenda.

@Jazzhead
More accurately it illustrates the concept of the big lie.  If you tell a lie, a really big lie, and keep telling it, staying on topic, always in front of people, why then people will start to believe it.

The GOP doesn't have an agenda under Trump.  The GOPs agenda is globalism, same as the DNCs.    For all of his faults, Trump has thrown a wrench into their plans to force a global dictatorship down our throats and they are desperate to stop him.

[Sanguine]

All true.   But this is a serious turn for the worse.  As Gerald Seib wrote this morning in the WSJ:

This is gas on the fire, folks.   At stake is the entire GOP agenda.

I agree with you, @Jazzhead.  This is very concerning and may have very serious ramifications. 

[INVAR]

Well then....take it to our RELIGIOUS category....OH WAIT!   That's right...we don't have one!

This thread isn't about the virtues of homosexuality, etc..

The subject of this thread is NEVER TRUMPERS.   And  THEIR "foolishness".   ^-^

As with nearly every thread that attempts to shame, ridicule and disparage Conservatives who do not genuflect to Trump - an intense argument about core Principles and either adhering to them or abandoning them for political pragmatism always ensues.

This is because we are currently in a war among ourselves attempting to either REDEFINE Conservatism and its principles or SAVE the foundational principles of Conservatism.

Homosexuality, abortion, fiscal irresponsibility, government run healthcare, the Nanny state - these things are now being grafted into the definition of what 'Conservatism' apparently stands for by Republican party hacks. Arguing over those core principle issues takes us directly to the SOURCE of traditional Conservative thought and principles: the bible.  The Book that so many despise and do not want to hear mentioned in any discussion.

Well, Conservatism is not a political ideology contrary to what you might assert. 

Conservatism is a way of life and thinking.  And as such - the core tenets of the bible shape the way Principled Conservatives look at the world, look at people and issues and look at government.

It's no wonder the Republican party and Self-identifying Conservatives ridicule principles that do not empower their candidates or causes.  That which motivates our core thoughts and beliefs is as despised by Republicans as assuredly as the Godless Left will despise it.

But since we are discussing foolishness, I can think of nothing more foolish than ejecting both God, scripture and principles regarding the issues that have fundamentally transformed us into something we were never intended to be as a nation.  'Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools' - Romans 1:21-22

[Emjay]

I'm surprised it hasn't yet. First off, how did this get so far off track, and two, why am I agreeing with the Trump caucus (not on the original topic, but on the direction of this thread)?

I think @txradioguy and I share the blame starting on page 5.  I posted on page 5 for the first time and remarked on how relatively civil the discourse had been so far.  And then radio guy referred to another poster without mentioning his name who always twisted things when it came to homosexuals.  I replied with my feelings about gays and it went downhill from there and poor Trump was left behind all together.

I am totally innocent but I seemed to have rubbed a few people the wrong way and got some undies in a bunch.

I am a new person today, one who is determined to play well with others.

[Emjay]

Why?  Because YOU say so?

Drugs may kill the brain and body - homosexuality kills the soul.

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts - I Corinthians 6:9

No, hatred kills the soul.

[Emjay]

So is equating it to the struggle blacks went through for equality in this country.  Nuff said.

I didn't equate it, I compared it.

[txradioguy]

I didn't equate it, I compared it.

There is no comparison.

[DCPatriot]

Thank you both for staying on topic.

 

[roamer_1]

Don't listen to anything this poster says. My unnamed sources tell me he is a plant from the Dept of Interior here to push the Coyote Valley Band of Pomo Indians, West Fork Russian River Bank Stabilization and Habitat Restoration.

Very diabolical.

@corbe
@Frank Cannon

Well you may not know it but this man's a spy
He's an undercover agent for the FBI
And he's been sent down here to infiltrate the Ku Klux Klan

I said would you believe this man has gone as far
As tearin' Wallace stickers off the bumpers of cars
And he voted for George McGoveren for president

Well he's a friend of them long-haired hippie type pinko bleep
I betcha he's even got a Commie flag
Tacked up on the wall inside of his garage

He's a snake in the grass I tell ya guys
He may look dumb but that's just a disguise
He's a mastermind in the ways of espionage

[Emjay]

There is no comparison.

Maybe not, but I didn't equate it.

[Frank Cannon]

@corbe
@Frank Cannon

Well you may not know it but this man's a spy
He's an undercover agent for the FBI
And he's been sent down here to infiltrate the Ku Klux Klan

I said would you believe this man has gone as far
As tearin' Wallace stickers off the bumpers of cars
And he voted for George McGoveren for president

Well he's a friend of them long-haired hippie type pinko bleep
I betcha he's even got a Commie flag
Tacked up on the wall inside of his garage

He's a snake in the grass I tell ya guys
He may look dumb but that's just a disguise
He's a mastermind in the ways of espionage

LOL. That is one of my top Charlie Daniels songs. The other is In America because it is up tempo.

[Emjay]

A few thoughts on the topic thread -

The Trump Jr.  e-mails ensure that the "Russia connection" meme isn't going away,  and probably now takes on the whiff of a true scandal.   The best possible spin at this point is that Trump Jr,  Manafort and Kushner were just vetting an offer of possible political dirt that was quickly dismissed as bullsh1t.  Remember, at about the same time (July 2016),  Russia was peddling crapola, through another British intermediary, about a "dossier" on Trump including his antics in a Russian hotel room.   The Dems tried to push that one for a few days,  but it quickly became clear that it was disinformation. 

Well,  the Russians appear to have been at it again, pushing disinformation to the Trump campaign and counting on that campaign's naivity and inexperience.  Their apparent intermediary, Goldman,  spelled out the source of the information and "Russia's support" for Trump, bait that Trump Jr. eager responded to with the words "I love it".    The stuff was crap,  but the Russians achieved what they wanted - an e-mail string apparently showing the Trump campaign's eagerness to get dirt even from "Russian government" sources.

It's a huge leap from "we did not collude" to "we were eager to collude but there was nothing there".   Now some, like the NYPost, are calling Trump Jr. an idiot.   But there's nothing idiotic with vetting offers of political dirt.  But this dirt was tainted from the start with a Russian label.  What is idiotic is to have a story out there that doesn't wash.  Trump Jr. is being transparent now, but why didn't the President get those e-mails out there months ago to bolster its point that it didn't collude, even though Russian baddies were trying to get to the campaign with false promises of "support"?   

Trump seems convinced of the notion that any acknowledgement of Russian dirty tricks will somehow cast aspersions on the legitimacy of his election.   To the contrary,  what may destroy his Presidency is months of denials undermined by e-mails indicating his own son was eager to get opposition research even if labeled plainly as being of Russian origin.   Trump should have gotten in front of this months ago by releasing the e-mails as evidence of Russian disinformation attempts that were vetted and REJECTED.   Instead,  the current news will, to most observers, be just seen as contradicting the Administration's own denials.    And that could, in the end, prove fatal.     

Good post.  It could only prove fatal if it succeeded in destroying the Trump administration, but, really, the general public is just not that interested in this whole Russian thing.

The people who are pushing it are part of what Rush was saying this morning:  "There is a coup underway -- being led by the media with accomplices in the Democrat Party and a number of international players -- to reject the outcome of the election, to undermine the presidency of Donald Trump, and, if the wish list were realized, to get rid of him."

At least that's my opinion about the Russian thing .... based mostly on my own interactions with people who are interested in politics and on my Facebook page.

My Facebook page has become totally political.  I'm missing the kitty pictures and the recipes but people just want to talk politics and they are about 90% conservative.

Not once have I seen an article posted about Russia interfering with elections. 

[Emjay]

As with nearly every thread that attempts to shame, ridicule and disparage Conservatives who do not genuflect to Trump - an intense argument about core Principles and either adhering to them or abandoning them for political pragmatism always ensues.

This is because we are currently in a war among ourselves attempting to either REDEFINE Conservatism and its principles or SAVE the foundational principles of Conservatism.

Homosexuality, abortion, fiscal irresponsibility, government run healthcare, the Nanny state - these things are now being grafted into the definition of what 'Conservatism' apparently stands for by Republican party hacks. Arguing over those core principle issues takes us directly to the SOURCE of traditional Conservative thought and principles: the bible.  The Book that so many despise and do not want to hear mentioned in any discussion.

Well, Conservatism is not a political ideology contrary to what you might assert. 

Conservatism is a way of life and thinking.  And as such - the core tenets of the bible shape the way Principled Conservatives look at the world, look at people and issues and look at government.

It's no wonder the Republican party and Self-identifying Conservatives ridicule principles that do not empower their candidates or causes.  That which motivates our core thoughts and beliefs is as despised by Republicans as assuredly as the Godless Left will despise it.

But since we are discussing foolishness, I can think of nothing more foolish than ejecting both God, scripture and principles regarding the issues that have fundamentally transformed us into something we were never intended to be as a nation.  'Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools' - Romans 1:21-22

Conservatism is about limited government, the free enterprise system, lower taxes, states rights and adhering to the constitution.

It is not about Bible thumpers who thrive on hate and have no inkling of what Jesus Christ tried to bring to the world.

[Jazzhead]

Conservatism is about limited government, the free enterprise system, lower taxes, states rights and adhering to the constitution.

It is not about Bible thumpers who thrive on hate and have no inkling of what Jesus Christ tried to bring to the world.

 

[txradioguy]

Thank you both for staying on topic.

 

@DCPatriot I was just doing my part to help @driftdiver win the bet. 

[Sanguine]

Conservatism is about limited government, the free enterprise system, lower taxes, states rights and adhering to the constitution.

It is not about Bible thumpers who thrive on hate and have no inkling of what Jesus Christ tried to bring to the world.

I agree with you partially.  The idea of an individual human being having value on their own and not just as a part of the clan, tribe, nation, whatever, is a pretty much uniquely Judeo-Christian idea.  And, that, is what sets us apart from all other forms of society.  You just can't neatly excise Judeo-Christianity from conservatism.   

[Emjay]

I agree with you partially.  The idea of an individual human being having value on their own and not just as a part of the clan, tribe, nation, whatever, is a pretty much uniquely Judeo-Christian idea.  And, that, is what sets us apart from all other forms of society.  You just can't neatly excise Judeo-Christianity from conservatism.

That's true and maybe I should have added individual rights.  But zealots who claim to be Christians may do more harm than good for Judeo-Christianity.

[Mom MD]

Conservatism is about limited government, the free enterprise system, lower taxes, states rights and adhering to the constitution.

It is not about Bible thumpers who thrive on hate and have no inkling of what Jesus Christ tried to bring to the world.

Calling sin what it is is not hate.  Wrong is wrong period.  But calling out sin is an act of love not hate.  I do not hate homosexuals, I work with plenty of them and not one of them would tell you I hate them or have ever been unkind.  Hater is like racist - its the word liberals throw when they have no other arguement

I would also argue that those who are not "Bible thumpers"  - those who do not read and study the Bible - are the ones that have no inkling what Jesus Christ brought into the world - He did not try and fail.

However, the only reason I brought up religion is a poster asked what defined deviancy.  I replied with the only answer I can give for myself.  Others have other standards.  But please get over the hate crap.