Senate adds penalty for going uninsured to healthcare bill

[RoosGirl]

When I have had large deductible plans, I have offered to pay cash at time of service and nearly always received a significant discount.  I kept track of charges and if I approached the deductible, ran them through the insurance.

For some, that was a 50% discount.  Just asked once, no begging or pleading, price cut in half.  I don't think it was ever less than 20% discount.

Yep, that's the experience I had as well.

[roamer_1]

I have long thought that getting rid of insurance for everyone would lower medical care prices.  I figured out a while ago that private doctor's offices will often reduce the amount you owe them if you just ask them for a discount.  That to me means that after collecting their fee from insurance and waiting on the remainder that you owe out of pocket, they've padded the price quite a bit.  Say it's MSRP versus invoice.

It would necessarily plummet. It would also necessarily shed tons of jobs in both the medical and insurance industries, as volume goes WAY down. I would assert that what is driving costs is not the indigent or free rider, but rather, the use of the system for incidental things, better covered by folk medicine.

[RoosGirl]

It would necessarily plummet. It would also necessarily shed tons of jobs in both the medical and insurance industries, as volume goes WAY down. I would assert that what is driving costs is not the indigent or free rider, but rather, the use of the system for incidental things, better covered by folk medicine.

A lot of people don't know how to treat themselves for minor things anymore.  In fact, I noted here a thread being disparaged for offering information on self-treatment of a certain condition.  So, not just people don't know how to anymore, they are actually looked down upon for using home remedies.

[roamer_1]

A lot of people don't know how to treat themselves for minor things anymore.  In fact, I noted here a thread being disparaged for offering information on self-treatment of a certain condition.  So, not just people don't know how to anymore, they are actually looked down upon for using home remedies.

I know. weird, huh? A TON of folks go running to the doctor if the kid gets so much as a sniffle.

As it is, in real time, the price of all of it is absurd. One of my grandkids had to get his hand/finger stitched up... Five stitches cost almost five hundred bucks. That's just stupid.

[Suppressed]

Where I live there is a hospital district funded by the taxpayers so indigent care has never been dropped on any single group or individual but if it were left up to me the people who received such care would have to make restitution to the greatest extent possible.

@Bigun

Excellent.  I would also like to see some sort of triage that would allow for ridiculously non-ER cases removed to a less-costly clinic setting, or even told, "I'm sorry, but that's not covered."

 

[roamer_1]

A lot of people don't know how to treat themselves for minor things anymore.  In fact, I noted here a thread being disparaged for offering information on self-treatment of a certain condition.  So, not just people don't know how to anymore, they are actually looked down upon for using home remedies.

You got me thinking... Other than Neosporin and fungal cream, and an occasional bar of anti-bacterial soap, I really can't think of much I even buy over the counter... There may be a cough drop or two laying around... but really, my medicine cabinet is empty. most of my 'medicine' is in the kitchen.

[RoosGirl]

You got me thinking... Other than Neosporin and fungal cream, and an occasional bar of anti-bacterial soap, I really can't think of much I even buy over the counter... There may be a cough drop or two laying around... but really, my medicine cabinet is empty. most of my 'medicine' is in the kitchen.

I'm surprised you don't use essential oils to replace all those things.  Or am I thinking about someone else who has used them to great advantage?

[EC]

I'm surprised you don't use essential oils to replace all those things.  Or am I thinking about someone else who has used them to great advantage?

*Raises hand.*

I use essential oils for a lot of things, especially the various fungal infections you pick up out country.

[roamer_1]

I'm surprised you don't use essential oils to replace all those things.  Or am I thinking about someone else who has used them to great advantage?

Yeah, that's me. And no doubt, eventually I will get there. BUT, as I have said before, I have not found AS effective a remedy as I would prefer in those cases... No doubt a matter of ignorance more than reality.

Until I find something as (or more) effective, I will use what I know... Another over the counter 'med' that I find hard to replace is bag balm. It has been so much a part of life for me, and my critters, that it is THE go-to, more often then not, where it applies...

[roamer_1]

*Raises hand.*

I use essential oils for a lot of things, especially the various fungal infections you pick up out country.

fungus is a big deal. Which essentials, pray tell?

[EC]

If I've got a couple days where I don't have to do the old creep and peep, I use a mix heavy on the tea tree oil. It's 30 drops Tea Tea Tree, 5 drops Mandarin, 10 drops Lavander, 5 drops blue chamomille in 100 ml grape seed oil (that is the best carrier oil for topical use, it's almost identical to natural skin oils, so penetrates enough.

Unfortunately, that mix, while it kills any fungal infection, has an incredibly strong smell. So for times when I need to keep treating without letting anything with a nose within half a mile know I'm there, it's 5 drops lavander, 5 drops pine oil, 5 drops marjoram, stirred into 15 ml zinc oxide cream. Won't kill the infection off completely, but holds it back and stops it spreading.

[roamer_1]

If I've got a couple days where I don't have to do the old creep and peep, I use a mix heavy on the tea tree oil. It's 30 drops Tea Tea Tree, 5 drops Mandarin, 10 drops Lavander, 5 drops blue chamomille in 100 ml grape seed oil (that is the best carrier oil for topical use, it's almost identical to natural skin oils, so penetrates enough.

Unfortunately, that mix, while it kills any fungal infection, has an incredibly strong smell. So for times when I need to keep treating without letting anything with a nose within half a mile know I'm there, it's 5 drops lavander, 5 drops pine oil, 5 drops marjoram, stirred into 15 ml zinc oxide cream. Won't kill the infection off completely, but holds it back and stops it spreading.

Thanks for that @EC ... I will give it a try. It is fairly familiar, but I have been basing in pine oil or birch bark oil... tea tree, lavender, chamomile, burdock leaf. It is effective, but as you said, it is a holding action. Works better as an insect repellent. 

Keeping a tube of Lavasil (is that right? Jock itch stuff) around makes for seriously effective treatment on pretty much any fungal strain. Not toe nail fungus... all I have found to cure that effectively is soaking the feet in automotive solvent (mineral spirits, mainly), which is more effective than any prescription, btw.
 

[RoosGirl]

I have used oregano oil for fungal infections with great success. 

[roamer_1]

I have used oregano oil for fungal infections with great success.

Not me... I am a great believer in oregano oil (hyssop from the Bible)... bit I have found little effectiveness on fungus, at least for me.

[RoosGirl]

Not me... I am a great believer in oregano oil (hyssop from the Bible)... bit I have found little effectiveness on fungus, at least for me.

That's funny, because I find that Tea Tree Oil doesn't work that well for me.  I just figure the oregano oil is burning a few layers of skin off and taking the fungus with it. Wow that stuff can light you up if you mix it a little too rich. :)

[roamer_1]

That's funny, because I find that Tea Tree Oil doesn't work that well for me.  I just figure the oregano oil is burning a few layers of skin off and taking the fungus with it. Wow that stuff can light you up if you mix it a little too rich. :)

LOL! that's right... and I take it direct into the blood every day which involves an unwatered drop smeared around right on the gums... hoo boy.

[Smokin Joe]

Here is a fact sheet on uncompensated care provided by hospitals ,  put out by the American Hospital Association.

Since 2000, hospitals of all types have provided more than $538 billion in uncompensated care to their patients.  However, significantly,  that number does NOT include other unfunded costs of care, such as underpayments from Medicare and Medicaid. 

Want to know why your private insurance (non-Medicare or Medicaid) is so high?   You're paying for all the above.   What's happening is selective socialism -  some of us are paying more to finance uncompensated or under-compensated care provided to others.   

How much of that went to illegal aliens?

[Smokin Joe]

Yeah, but single payer isn't.  Be careful what you wish for.

Monopoly much?

[RoosGirl]

LOL! that's right... and I take it direct into the blood every day which involves an unwatered drop smeared around right on the gums... hoo boy.

That'll wake you up and get you hoppin'!

[mountaineer]

We were at an event this evening. My husband was talking to the chef, whom he knows well. The chef said a few years ago he got Synvisc injections for one knee and it really worked wonders. He then went on one of the Obamacare plans - and they refuse to authorize Synvisc for the other knee. So he's pretty much Hopalong Chef right now, and will continue to be so unless he gets decent insurance.

[DB]

We were at an event this evening. My husband was talking to the chef, whom he knows well. The chef said a few years ago he got Synvisc injections for one knee and it really worked wonders. He then went on one of the Obamacare plans - and they refuse to authorize Synvisc for the other knew. So he's pretty much Hopalong Chef right now, and will continue to be so unless he gets decent insurance.

The problem is, getting an injection like that shouldn't be so expensive that you even need insurance for it. You should be able to just go get it done and pay cash. "Insurance" is rapidly becoming the gatekeeper for all medical care and it should not be that way.

[Drago]

Yep, and "Synvisc" isn't covered by most insurance anymore anyway (as of 2016).  The cost of the dose is about $300., plus the cost of the doctor visit...another $250. or so?  Just pay cash.

https://www.goodrx.com/blog/50-drugs-dropped-by-insurance-in-2016-including-viagra-and-qsymia/

[Smokin Joe]

Yep, and "Synvisc" isn't covered by most insurance anymore anyway (as of 2016).  The cost of the dose is about $300., plus the cost of the doctor visit...another $250. or so?  Just pay cash.

https://www.goodrx.com/blog/50-drugs-dropped-by-insurance-in-2016-including-viagra-and-qsymia/

Well, now, in view of Sandra Fluke crying about not being able to afford contraceptives (a Georgetown student can't afford a few bucks a month??) and supposedly needing Obamacare to pay for it, not having Viagra covered seems sexist, no?

Just more rip in the rip-off. Or is that R.I.P.-off?

[DB]

What they are proposing is making catastrophic health insurance essentially free.

Why buy insurance at all, especially if all you really need is catastrophic coverage?

If you get cancer or have a heart attack, sign up and pay the penalty as you're being wheeled in... The penalty is nothing compared to what the coming bill would be... In the case of cancer the bills will keep rolling in for months and/or years and again the penalty trivial in comparison. If there's some waiting period doctors will get real good at patching you up long enough for it to expire before following up with the expensive procedures once you're covered.

[Smokin Joe]

What they are proposing is making catastrophic health insurance essentially free.

Why buy insurance at all, especially if all you really need is catastrophic coverage?

If you get cancer or have a heart attack, sign up and pay the penalty as you're being wheeled in... The penalty is nothing compared to what the coming bill would be... In the case of cancer the bills will keep rolling in for months and/or years and again the penalty trivial in comparison. If there's some waiting period doctors will get real good at patching you up long enough for it to expire before following up with the expensive procedures once you're covered.

What they have done is do away with catastrophic care plans. As much as those who whine about doctors not getting paid or people dying in the streets (a lie), you would think that keeping relatively inexpensive plans to cover major expenses would have been a priority, not the first thing in the crosshairs, but that would be if getting coverage for more people was the aim, instead of getting more coverage for some people. There is still the trillion dollar gorilla in the room, but it isn't PC to talk about that.