Author Topic: Indy Muslims call out creators of local billboard that insults Prophet Muhammad  (Read 15207 times)

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Oceander

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Of course.  That's why I oppose Islamofascism.   But to ascribe such murderousness to Muslims in general is contemptible bigotry.   

Give it a rest.  You would be much better off arguing that, like most religions, a lot of practitioners don't incorporate the more offensive parts of the strictly technical theology/ideology into their everyday lives.  You won't get where you want to get by arguing philosophical niceties based on the Koran itself because, with all due respect, it does contain the incitements to violence that the Christian bible does not contain. 

In other words, you'd be better off arguing that people tend to be individuals first, doctrinaires second.

Offline txradioguy

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And apparently thats bigoted and hateful.

Apparently we are supposed to ignore history.

And we all know what happens when people ignore history...
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I would say the billboard promotes an Inconvenient Truth about a political movement. It would be the same if the billboard spoke of Bill Clinton's affairs. Whether it is the truth is irrelevant. It is an attack on a political group (liberals) and they must defend themselves against the truth.
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Offline Sanguine

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And apparently thats bigoted and hateful.

Apparently we are supposed to ignore history.

Ah.  Thanks.

Offline musiclady

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I'm not so sure of that, @musiclady.

Perhaps not.  But I kind of hope it's a game and not reality to him.....   :shrug:
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Offline driftdiver

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Of course.  That's why I oppose Islamofascism.   But to ascribe such murderousness to Muslims in general is contemptible bigotry.

@Jazzhead
Is there more than one Islamic prophet named Mohammed?    Do non-violent muslims pray to a different prophet?   Is the Quran they use written by someone else?

No, there is only one of them.  One Quran and one Islamic faith.  One man who's name was mohammed and who claimed to be the prophet for the muslims.   He created their religion through the same type of actions that ISIS is doing currently.    Those are facts.

In fact shortly after their prophets death without resurrection, his army fought many battles with the Spanish and French.  After winning a particular battle where the Spanish surrendered his Lieutenants ordered the slaughter of all remaining fighters.  Making a dry river bed run with blood.   After killing the local king the Lieutenant then raped the queen.  Right there in the blood of her now dead husband.  Those are the type of men who sat beside their prophet.

The difference is that some muslims don't adhere to a strict interpretation of the Quran and associated doctrine.   The best estimates are that 70 to 80% of the Muslims in the world fall into this latter category.   The problem is they tend to follow the other 300 million Muslims who are willing to kill to enforce their faith.
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Offline thackney

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@Jazzhead
Is there more than one Islamic prophet named Mohammed?    Do non-violent muslims pray to a different prophet?   Is the Quran they use written by someone else?

Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran.  He spoke it for 23 years.  After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.
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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran.  He spoke it for 23 years.  After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.

That is because Mohammed himself was totally illiterate. 
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Give it a rest.  You would be much better off arguing that, like most religions, a lot of practitioners don't incorporate the more offensive parts of the strictly technical theology/ideology into their everyday lives.  You won't get where you want to get by arguing philosophical niceties based on the Koran itself because, with all due respect, it does contain the incitements to violence that the Christian bible does not contain. 

In other words, you'd be better off arguing that people tend to be individuals first, doctrinaires second.

Maybe we should suggest to him it would be best to try to persuade them to not murder our people, rather than jailing them when they do.  But what do I know?  I'm a disgrace.  :shrug:
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@Jazzhead
Is there more than one Islamic prophet named Mohammed?    Do non-violent muslims pray to a different prophet?   Is the Quran they use written by someone else?

No, there is only one of them.  One Quran and one Islamic faith.  One man who's name was mohammed and who claimed to be the prophet for the muslims.   He created their religion through the same type of actions that ISIS is doing currently.    Those are facts.

In fact shortly after their prophets death without resurrection, his army fought many battles with the Spanish and French.  After winning a particular battle where the Spanish surrendered his Lieutenants ordered the slaughter of all remaining fighters.  Making a dry river bed run with blood.   After killing the local king the Lieutenant then raped the queen.  Right there in the blood of her now dead husband.  Those are the type of men who sat beside their prophet.

The difference is that some muslims don't adhere to a strict interpretation of the Quran and associated doctrine.   The best estimates are that 70 to 80% of the Muslims in the world fall into this latter category.   The problem is they tend to follow the other 300 million Muslims who are willing to kill to enforce their faith.

And.... the so-called "moderate, peaceful" Muslims don't exactly rise up and denounce each and every terrorist incident en masse.   Granted, they may be afraid to do so, but still.... how else can one take that refusal to denounce Islamic terrorism but as unspoken approval?
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Offline Restored

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Whether it has incitements to violence is irrelevant. We ignore most of what is in the Bible. This is political, not religious violence. If it was religious, they wouldn't kill each other wholesale as they do. They would all be united under the Koran. The Koran doesn't cause people to kill. It's just a book.

The Church burned people 1000 years ago for opposing the church government, not the religion itself. These are all political struggles. Liberals are not upset about the billboards because they care about religion. They are upset because the boards make them look bad .
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Offline Sanguine

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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran.  He spoke it for 23 years.  After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.

Now, be careful.  Don't try to tell that to a true believer.

Offline thackney

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Now, be careful.  Don't try to tell that to a true believer.

A "true believer", one educated in their own religion, will have discovered Mohammed illiteracy is part of their justification the words of the Quran was revealed to him by the spirits.  He wasn't capable of reading it somewhere else then repeating it.
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Offline Sanguine

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A "true believer", one educated in their own religion, will have discovered Mohammed illiteracy is part of their justification the words of the Quran was revealed to him by the spirits.  He wasn't capable of reading it somewhere else then repeating it.

I was using the term as used by Hoffer.

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A "true believer", one educated in their own religion, will have discovered Mohammed illiteracy is part of their justification the words of the Quran was revealed to him by the spirits.  He wasn't capable of reading it somewhere else then repeating it.

"Going from memory" also makes a great excuse for slip shod translating.
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Offline thackney

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I was using the term as used by Hoffer.

Who is Hoffer?
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Who is Hoffer?

It's when you give a dollar amount for something.

"I hoffer him $20 for his hat, but he wanted $25."

Offline driftdiver

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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran.  He spoke it for 23 years.  After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.

@thackney @Bigun

There is some evidence that the Quran is based on writings in place well before Mohammed was born.
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Offline thackney

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@thackney @Bigun

There is some evidence that the Quran is based on writings in place well before Mohammed was born.

Thank you.  I had not read that before.  Any links for more info?
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@thackney @Bigun

There is some evidence that the Quran is based on writings in place well before Mohammed was born.

Mohammedville........   Home of Plagiarism and Nervous Goats.
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Who is Hoffer?

Eric Hoffer, but I like Frank's explanation too.  Just not as much.

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It's when you give a dollar amount for something.

"I hoffer him $20 for his hat, but he wanted $25."

 :silly:
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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran.  He spoke it for 23 years.  After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.

If that's the case, then why is it so different over time?  I.e., it's my impression that it's inconsistent, written over a period of time, showing a progression of thought.  Is that wrong? 
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It's when you give a dollar amount for something.

"I hoffer him $20 for his hat, but he wanted $25."

Kinda like I'll give you a nickle if you tickle my pickle….i'll give you a dime if you take your time. ... Give me a dollar and I'll make you holler...

Offline thackney

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If that's the case, then why is it so different over time?  I.e., it's my impression that it's inconsistent, written over a period of time, showing a progression of thought.  Is that wrong?

I believe portions of it were written down by others while Mohammed still lived.  It was compiled together into a single book after he died.
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