Author Topic: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London  (Read 9001 times)

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Online DCPatriot

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #125 on: June 05, 2017, 01:34:08 pm »
@Mesaclone   

One thing this discussion once again proves conclusively is that @Oceander will NEVER admit that he is wrong about anything!

....just as I said the other day.     *****rollingeyes*****
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Online Bigun

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #126 on: June 05, 2017, 01:36:49 pm »
....just as I said the other day.     *****rollingeyes*****

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is readily apparent!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #127 on: June 05, 2017, 02:12:57 pm »
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what is readily apparent!

Doesn't take a rocket scientist either to see that some people are trying to tread the fine line on the personal attacks again either.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Online Bigun

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #128 on: June 05, 2017, 02:15:33 pm »
Doesn't take a rocket scientist either to see that some people are trying to tread the fine line on the personal attacks again either.

The TRUTH is never an attack my friend!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #129 on: June 05, 2017, 02:21:42 pm »
The TRUTH is never an attack my friend!

Attack the merits of his argument...not the person...and I wasn't saying you specifically...but there are some people here that are just heel bent on pushing the line with the mods after what transpired last week.

I personally don't like them around...I refer to have us police our own...and the tone has been much better...but some folks just can't resist the snark it appears.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #130 on: June 05, 2017, 02:41:14 pm »

:facepalm2:

This one I have to split with you on.  A person illegally in another country is not subject to its jurisdiction.  They are subject to their own country.  Citizens of a foreign country.  If that was the case anyone visiting this country who gives birth the child would obtain dual citizenship.  Say a woman comes for a business meeting and gives birth prematurely is the baby a citizen of the United States?  No. 

We have made a huge mistake with the anchor baby thing.  With giving illegals all of the social benefits.  Paying for their births and then calling them citizens.  They should have never been allowed to stay.  They broke the law coming here and they are subject to their own country not ours.

We pay for everything.  The birth.  The health insurance.  Dental, public schools food programs, food stamps or cards and cash assistance.  Wrong.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 02:43:31 pm by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #131 on: June 05, 2017, 02:42:54 pm »
I think the courts have way too much power.  They can take away our rights as they have done with this needed travel ban.
What rights are you referring to?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #132 on: June 05, 2017, 02:47:13 pm »
With what?  The people are disarmed.  The only ones armed are the police, criminals and terrorists.
You really believe that statement?

And if you do, are you saying that the continued slaughter of citizens in the streets by terrorists brought in by the leaders will not have a reaction by the citizens?

These people are not completely like sheep.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #133 on: June 05, 2017, 02:48:44 pm »
A travel ban on a few selected countries makes almost no sense because it would be a huge waste of customs and immigration resources and would mainly only inconvenience legitimate travelers. Those with nefarious plots will simply plan around it and enter with a passport from a non ban country.
That is just pure theory that has no basis in fact.

Look to the Israeli model if you want to see how it works effectively.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #134 on: June 05, 2017, 02:50:18 pm »
Preventing automatic citizenship at birth will require a constitutional amendment, not just a change in current immigration law.
Care to back up that claim with a bonafide source or is just your latest theory?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #135 on: June 05, 2017, 02:55:08 pm »
Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment directly grants citizenship as a birthright, and that was the original intent of the amendment.  To wit:  "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."

It doesn't get much clearer than that.
Yes it is clear.  The key is that one must be born AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

An illegal coming across does not fulfill that second part so a baby born from her is not an automatic citizen.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #136 on: June 05, 2017, 02:55:15 pm »
Care to back up that claim with a bonafide source or is just your latest theory?

@IsailedawayfromFR

14th Amendment

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #137 on: June 05, 2017, 02:57:49 pm »
@IsailedawayfromFR

14th Amendment

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
You inadvertently did not highlight between the two bolds.

Why?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Bigun

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #138 on: June 05, 2017, 02:58:13 pm »
@IsailedawayfromFR

14th Amendment

"Section 1.All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


Corrected it for you!


"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #139 on: June 05, 2017, 03:01:54 pm »


Corrected it for you!
Thanks.  Some people pick certain pieces to make their point, instead of reading the entire writing.

The Founders very deliberately wrote what they did.

They were excluding for example, Indians who were not subject to the US jurisdiction, nor Canadian trappers who wandered into US territories.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Bigun

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #140 on: June 05, 2017, 03:06:10 pm »
Thanks.  Some people pick certain pieces to make their point, instead of reading the entire writing.

The Founders very deliberately wrote what they did.

They were excluding for example, Indians who were not subject to the US jurisdiction, nor Canadian trappers who wandered into US territories.

The founders weren't still around when the 14th was constructed but the people who did the constructing made VERY clear that they were talking about only those people born here who are subject to the sole, complete and undivided jurisdiction of the United States. 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 03:08:45 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #141 on: June 05, 2017, 03:07:30 pm »
The founders weren't still around when the 14th was constructed but the people who di the constructing made VERY clear that they were talking about only those people born here who are subject to the sole, complete and undivided jurisdiction of the United States.
thx.  My apologies for the error in dates.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #142 on: June 05, 2017, 03:33:22 pm »
So the actual words of the people who constructed the 14th in congress have NO meaning whatever for you?


Never said that; please don't put words into my mouth. 

The words I care the most about are the words they wrote into the Fourteenth itself; the words the various states ratified.  If those words are clear, then the drafters' private intentions may be interesting as background, but cannot control the application of the words themselves. 

That's called the Rule of Law, and it's one that I ascribe to. 

Offline INVAR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #143 on: June 05, 2017, 03:39:19 pm »
None of these arguments matter a whit. 

The replacement birthrate of Americans is below the minimum threshold to sustain the next generation. 

Europe is already toast in this regard.  They are already conquered and do not even realize it yet. They are just beginning to experience what happens when an alien population outbreeds you from within your own society. There is no recovery for any of them, because even if the Europeans started breeding like rabbits with a dozen children per family - it will take over 100 years to reach parity with the Muslim populations that have already outpaced them and outbred them.  As a majority - the Muslims will make the laws and the rules.

Meanwhile in the US, the replacement birthrate of illegal Mexicans who have no intention of assimilating into an American culture is outpacing both white and black populations in this country 5 to 1.  Muslims who have recently been planted here thanks to Obama are outbreeding both white and black almost 12 to 1.

So we can argue about who is a citizen by birth, and the fact is that those in-country right now - who have no intention to assimilate into an American culture and instead exist within their own native culture which is HOSTILE to the very existence of the American culture - are outbreeding the existing population at a rate that insures that the country your children and grandchildren will live in, will not be a society and culture we would recognize at all.

Europe's fate is already our own fate - but on a slightly different level, until the Muslims outpace the Mexicans and South American birthrate already here.

That's basic math folks.  No arguing those numbers, which may be even far worse than what some sources are guesstimating.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #144 on: June 05, 2017, 05:00:19 pm »
Yes it is clear.  The key is that one must be born AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof.

An illegal coming across does not fulfill that second part so a baby born from her is not an automatic citizen.

An individual who is not part of a diplomatic mission or an occupying army is definitely subject to US jurisdiction.  U.S. V. Wong Kim Ark held as much, and on the basis of the comprehensive common law at the time.  The standard rule was that the children born on English soil to foreign parents were English subjects (i.e., citizens) unless their parents were on foreign diplomatic missions or were part of an occupying army.  No distinctions made for whether the parents in question were not supposed to be in England or not.  The Fourteenth amendment not only restated and declared this rule, if anything it expanded it a bit.  Wong Kim Ark; Afroyim v. Rusk. 

Therefore, children born within one of the various states are automatically citizens, even if their parents are present in violation of the immigration laws, unless those parents are either foreign diplomats or part of an occupying army. 

And if @Bigun thinks I won't admit to being wrong, I will say that my most recent reading is leading me to question whether Cruz could have been president under the natural born requirement.  I haven't answered the question to my satisfaction, but i am inclined to harbor some doubts now. 

Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #145 on: June 05, 2017, 05:44:15 pm »
What rights are you referring to?

Not sure if you are being obtuse or snarky, but obviously I am referring to our right to keep dangerous people out of our country.

A lot of people here have attacked Trump's travel ban as not enough.  Maybe not, but it's something and it would help.  They have also called it expensive.  How expensive was the attack in London?

Apparently, the well-known phrase 'creeping socialism' has been forgotten.  Liberals got a lot of things done by creeping.

This travel ban is needed and would be a start.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 05:44:51 pm by Emjay »
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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #146 on: June 05, 2017, 05:51:44 pm »
I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong.  Until then I won't.  The people forced to go through the IRS' OVDP is strong evidence I'm not wrong.  if the Fourteenth did not make them citizens automatically at birth, they would have litigated the issue successfully by now.

It is possible to prevent your child having US citizenship - mate and his wife did it. Usual story, he were seconded to the US, his wife joined him and wound up giving birth a month early. It took physically threatening the hospital registrar and some temporary diplomatic credentials from the embassy to pull off, but their eldest is a UK citizen ONLY, same as the rest of their kids.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #147 on: June 05, 2017, 06:33:21 pm »
Not sure if you are being obtuse or snarky, but obviously I am referring to our right to keep dangerous people out of our country.

A lot of people here have attacked Trump's travel ban as not enough.  Maybe not, but it's something and it would help.  They have also called it expensive.  How expensive was the attack in London?

Apparently, the well-known phrase 'creeping socialism' has been forgotten.  Liberals got a lot of things done by creeping.

This travel ban is needed and would be a start.

Stop and END ALL immigration to the US until a new system of vetting can be created, and then only permit a small percentage of immigrants based on existing population divided by national origin and skill sets that are beneficial to American society.

End ALL Refugee resettlement unless they are Christians being exterminated and they can be properly vetted as such.

End ALL welfare or public tax programs for anyone who is not a bonafide and registered citizen of at least a minimum of 10 years.

That's it.

Of course that common sense will never happen.

I'm partial to piggybacking the Johnson-Reed Act, which eliminated mass immigration and severely limited who could come here to this country based on national origin until the existing immigrants from the previous decades were fully assimilated into our own culture, language and society. 

However, the Republicans will no more impede the invasion by third world squatters seeking to reconquinista and Jihadists than the Democrats will.

So like Europe, our fate is already sealed.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #148 on: June 05, 2017, 06:45:00 pm »
Stop and END ALL immigration to the US until a new system of vetting can be created, and then only permit a small percentage of immigrants based on existing population divided by national origin and skill sets that are beneficial to American society.

End ALL Refugee resettlement unless they are Christians being exterminated and they can be properly vetted as such.

End ALL welfare or public tax programs for anyone who is not a bonafide and registered citizen of at least a minimum of 10 years.

That's it.

Of course that common sense will never happen.

I'm partial to piggybacking the Johnson-Reed Act, which eliminated mass immigration and severely limited who could come here to this country based on national origin until the existing immigrants from the previous decades were fully assimilated into our own culture, language and society. 

However, the Republicans will no more impede the invasion by third world squatters seeking to reconquinista and Jihadists than the Democrats will.

So like Europe, our fate is already sealed.

Thanks for the burst of optimism.  I feel good all over!

Seriously, you are right but it has to be done incrementally.  That's the only way anything ever gets done unless a real crisis occurs ... like war ... in which a State of Emergency can be declared and that changes things.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #149 on: June 05, 2017, 09:16:00 pm »
A travel ban on a few selected countries makes almost no sense because it would be a huge waste of customs and immigration resources and would mainly only inconvenience legitimate travelers. Those with nefarious plots will simply plan around it and enter with a passport from a non ban country.


It articulates a policy of stopping Muslims from entering the country.   That it may be insufficient is irrelevant to the fact that it establishes a precedent.   It legitimizes the idea of selective banning of troublesome individuals. 


The policy can be expanded as the public comes to accept the principle. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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