Author Topic: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London  (Read 8845 times)

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Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2017, 02:49:21 am »
THERE IS NO ANCHOR BABY LAW!.. http://www.resonoelusono.com/NO_ANCHOR_BABY_LAW.htm


To be a 14TH Amendment ” citizen ” one must not only have been born on U.S. soil but also of been a ” SUBJECT TO THE JURISDICTION THEREOF ” at the time of birth as written within the 14Th Amendment of The United States Constitution

14TH Amendment U.S. Constitution Section 1:

“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

” Subject to the Jurisdiction thereof ” means NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANYBODY ELSE.

This fact is within the Congressional Record and cannot be disputed.
United States Senate in 1866 Sen. Lyman Trumbull (IL):”The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.”

United States Senate 1866 Sen Jacob M. Howard (MI):

” This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States.

This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are FOREIGNERS, ALIENS, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States.”

Under Sec. 1992 of U.S. Revised Statutes: “All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are declared to be citizens of the United States.”

Thomas Jefferson said “Aliens are the subjects of a foreign power.”

Most people have not even heard of HR 140. The U.S. Congress has stooped so low since the Founding Fathers of this great striving nation that they have to write a Bill to uphold the 14Th Amendment of the United States Constitution. This Law Already EXISTS! http://www.opencongress.org/bill/112-h140/show

The meaning of Subject to the Jurisdiction Thereof is outlined in this Fox News Report quite well here: “States Fight To End Birthright Citizenship:”http://video.foxnews.com/v/4487782/states-fight-to-end-birthright-citizenship/

The U.S. Supreme Court has never granted U.S. citizenship to illegal aliens children born on U.S. soil. Domicile foreigners on U.S. soil are NOT THE SAME as illegal aliens.

As for “natural born Citizen” Father of the 14TH Amendment Rep. John Bingham of Ohio confirms in the House on March 9, 1866 that:

” I find no fault with the introductory clause, which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being BORN WITHIN THE JURISDICTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF PARENTS (PLURAL) NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANY FOREIGN SOVEREIGNTY IS, IN THE LANGUAGE OF YOUR CONSTITUTION ITSELF, A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.”

U.S. SUPREME COURT Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875). This is the only Supreme Court PRECEDENT UNILATERALLY defining who a natural born Citizen is even though the case was about women’s voting rights AND IT HAS NEVER BEEN CHALLENGED OR OVERRULED.

In the Minor case the court had to determine if Virginia Minor was a U.S. citizen and in doing so they stated because she was a ” NATURAL BORN U.S. CITIZEN ” BORN OF TWO(2) CITIZEN PARENTS(PLURAL) THERE WAS NO NEED TO DETERMINE IF SHE WAS A SIMPLE ” CITIZEN ” BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN DOUBTS ABOUT THAT DEFINITION AND THEY DID NOT HAVE TO GO THERE.

Minor v. Happersett Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1875):

[EXCERPT]
“…IT WAS NEVER DOUBTED THAT ALL CHILDREN BORN IN A COUNTRY OF PARENTS WHO WERE IT’S CITIZENS BECAME THEMSELVES, UPON THEIR BIRTH, CITIZENS ALSO. THESE WERE NATIVES OR NATURAL BORN CITIZENS, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts…..”

The U.S. Supreme Court stated pertaining to this case that it is ” not necessary” to solve the doubts of who a ” citizen ” is because it was “never doubted” that Minor was a “NATURAL BORN CITIZEN” born of two (2) U.S. citizen parents(PLURAL) within the United States.

Weakness in the Constitution will cripple the people.


:facepalm2:


Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2017, 02:50:05 am »
He will NEVER read it! Not ever!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline berdie

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #102 on: June 05, 2017, 02:52:02 am »
Read the information at the link I posted in my response above @berdie

Thanks..pretty deep, but the info is good.

Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2017, 02:52:15 am »
He will NEVER read it! Not ever!


I read it.  I simply prefer to read the words of the Constitution and go with those, first and foremost.  The wonder is that you don't.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2017, 02:54:47 am »
I read it.  I simply prefer to read the words of the Constitution and go with those, first and foremost.  The wonder is that you don't.

Oh I do! MUCH more than you apparently!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #105 on: June 05, 2017, 02:58:09 am »
Oh I do! MUCH more than you apparently!


Oh but you don't.  You so desperately hate the people you deride as anchor babies that you engage in the same sort of penumbra-hunting the liberal S. Ct. used to find the plethora of privacy rights it discovered.


Offline berdie

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #106 on: June 05, 2017, 03:00:40 am »
Read the language; what does it say?

If you are born within the United States, you are a citizen of the United States and of the State in which you were born.  If it was supposed to be a one-time thing for the freed slaves, it would have said so.  It does not.

Hmmm...so I assume you think that the intent of the authors of the 14th amendment  included people that come here when they are 8 1/2 months pregnant to give birth (yes it happens) should have babies that are US citizens. Okey Doke.

Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #107 on: June 05, 2017, 03:05:29 am »
Hmmm...so I assume you think that the intent of the authors of the 14th amendment  included people that come here when they are 8 1/2 months pregnant to give birth (yes it happens) should have babies that are US citizens. Okey Doke.

If they wanted to exclude that situation, then they should have done so in the language they used.  They did not.  The language that was ratified as the Fourteenth Amendment allows precisely that situation. 

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but the language as written, as duly ratified, has to control.  Otherwise, it's no longer rule of law.

Offline berdie

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #108 on: June 05, 2017, 03:22:16 am »
If they wanted to exclude that situation, then they should have done so in the language they used.  They did not.  The language that was ratified as the Fourteenth Amendment allows precisely that situation. 

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but the language as written, as duly ratified, has to control.  Otherwise, it's no longer rule of law.

It has no bearing on what I like or dislike. If my memory serves me correctly...the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment had to with slavery. Not immigration or people born here of immigrants (even if they are only here for a couple of weeks).

I sincerely doubt that the authors could predict that this would become an issue. The amendment has been "contorted" to fit the circumstance. As so often happens in today's world.

Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #109 on: June 05, 2017, 03:22:35 am »
Viz. citizenship by birth:  there are literally thousands of people who really wish the fantasies about it were true - that there was some magic in the Fourteenth Amendment that would prevent them from having U.S. citizenship - and these people are wealthy enough to afford the attorneys to litigate the issue if one actually existed.  I speak of many of the individuals who have undergone the IRS Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program ("OVDP").  This is an initiative from the IRS that allows U.S. citizens and residents who failed to timely report their foreign bank accounts (and certain other financial assets) on the FBAR, aka Form FinCEN 114, to "come in from the cold" and file delinquent FBARs and U.S. income tax returns at the cost of substantially lower penalties than might apply outside of the OVDP.

A lot of the people who end up in this program are people who always believed they were Germans, or Brits, or Indians, or ... until, for example, their bank tells them that because they were born in the U.S. - often back in the 1960s or 1970s when one of their parents was doing a year or two of grad studies in the U.S., or was on vacation - they are U.S. citizens and the bank is going to close their accounts because the bank no longer wants U.S. citizens as clients because of the compliance nightmare known as FATCA.  These individuals then learn - to their horror - that they should have been filing U.S. income tax returns and reporting their bank accounts, including their garden variety savings accounts, on FBARs their entire life.

The penalties for not filing the FBAR on time are horrendous - three late returns can end up costing you more than the value of the entire account - and the accounts involved are usually substantial, so these people are almost always represented by good, creative lawyers.  If the Fourteenth Amendment did not mean precisely what it says, these people would have won that argument long ago because they would all desperately love for it to not apply to them.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 03:24:58 am by Oceander »

Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #110 on: June 05, 2017, 03:23:33 am »
It has no bearing on what I like or dislike. If my memory serves me correctly...the 13th, 14th and 15th amendment had to with slavery. Not immigration or people born here of immigrants (even if they are only here for a couple of weeks).

I sincerely doubt that the authors could predict that this would become an issue. The amendment has been "contorted" to fit the circumstance. As so often happens in today's world.

It hasn't been contorted, period.  The language has been construed to mean exactly what it says.  That is what happens when you apply the rule of law:  the words as written are paramount.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #111 on: June 05, 2017, 03:55:47 am »
It's late, and I don't have time to read the whole thread.

Consider a timeline between here and some point in the future, say 100 years from today.

Somewhere between here and there lies a point in our timeline.
Call it "the point of no return".

Up until such point of no return is reached, white/Christian Western Europe will still have the ability to save itself from islam. Of course, the closer they get to that point, the bloodier the victory will become.

But... if that point is reached and then passed there will be no saving Europe regardless of what is done, and islam will have won.

The individual nations of Europe -- France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, and of course, Britain -- have yet to really understand and confront the future before them. Even now, with the blood of the victims being washed from the streets of London, the vast majority of them still don't have a clue. And those in the positions of power and public trust who may sense that future are doing their damnedest to avoid speaking what they know out loud.

However -- as a lady writer once observed -- "We can evade reality. What we cannot evade are the consequences of evading reality".

Someday these Europeans ARE going to discover the reality in front of them.
Only then will they understand that they have no choice but to engage the enemy in an existential struggle to win. A true Armageddon.

Yet at this point in history, it's unknown whether that moment of understanding reality is going to come just before "the point of no return"... or... just AFTER it.

We shall wait and see.

And of course, I'll close with my oft-posted images. For The West, the future will be this:


Or... this:


Which shall it be?
Which SHOULD it be?

Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #112 on: June 05, 2017, 04:52:29 am »
If he was truly serious about vetting he'd have included Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The ban was based on the fact that the banned countries do not have the ability or desire to seriously vet these potential travelers.

Apparently, it is felt that the countries you name have better vetting.

I doubt it seriously, but this ban is a start.  I believe in starts.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2017, 04:57:10 am »
The ban was based on the fact that the banned countries do not have the ability or desire to seriously vet these potential travelers.

Apparently, it is felt that the countries you name have better vetting.

I doubt it seriously, but this ban is a start.  I believe in starts.

No, the list came from Obama which means it came from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.  It isn't coincidence that it is missing major countries with terrorist ties.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #114 on: June 05, 2017, 05:03:23 am »
It's late, and I don't have time to read the whole thread.

Consider a timeline between here and some point in the future, say 100 years from today.

Somewhere between here and there lies a point in our timeline.
Call it "the point of no return".

Up until such point of no return is reached, white/Christian Western Europe will still have the ability to save itself from islam. Of course, the closer they get to that point, the bloodier the victory will become.

But... if that point is reached and then passed there will be no saving Europe regardless of what is done, and islam will have won.

The individual nations of Europe -- France, Germany, Sweden, Holland, and of course, Britain -- have yet to really understand and confront the future before them. Even now, with the blood of the victims being washed from the streets of London, the vast majority of them still don't have a clue. And those in the positions of power and public trust who may sense that future are doing their damnedest to avoid speaking what they know out loud.

However -- as a lady writer once observed -- "We can evade reality. What we cannot evade are the consequences of evading reality".

Someday these Europeans ARE going to discover the reality in front of them.
Only then will they understand that they have no choice but to engage the enemy in an existential struggle to win. A true Armageddon.

Yet at this point in history, it's unknown whether that moment of understanding reality is going to come just before "the point of no return"... or... just AFTER it.

We shall wait and see.

And of course, I'll close with my oft-posted images. For The West, the future will be this:


Or... this:


Which shall it be?
Which SHOULD it be?

And Trump say's he stands with Britain.  I think this would be a great place for criticism of the way Britain has allowed Sharia Law and has catered to the terrorists in the country.  To acknowledge that this kind of pandering is dangerous to its citizens.


Stop pandering to enemies of our way of life
Radical Muslims get special treatment, says Ruth Dudley Edwards

Ruth Dudley Edwards
7:52PM GMT 11 Mar 2009


The Government's neurotic placating of Islamists has not yet led to the censorship of tabloids for giving vent to occasional outrage. "Hate for Heroes: Muslims in vile demo", declared yesterday's Sun, rightly furious that in Luton 15 or so youths had screamed "terrorists" at a homecoming parade of the Royal Anglia's 2nd Battalion and waved banners calling the soldiers baby-killers and butchers. Other newspapers showed a group of watching women enveloped in abayas and niqabs.


In some ways the silent women were the more potent image of what disturbs readers of broadsheets as well as tabloids, their dress providing an in-your-face statement that they consider themselves proudly separate from the rest of us.


That the police arrested only counter-demonstrators will increase the average Joe's belief that radical Muslims have reason to think of themselves as not only separate but privileged. "I am worried at how Bedfordshire police allowed this type of protest with offensive banners to take place," said Margaret Moran, the Labour MP for Luton South. "It seems to me that this amounted to huge provocation and was potentially racially divisive."


She's right, of course, but she must know that in agreeing in advance to what was bound to be an offensive protest, the police were only following what they believe to be government policy: don't upset radical Muslims in case they blow us up. Luton has around 20,000 Muslims and is a black spot for jihadism. The police conciliate the vociferous in the hope they won't get so cross that they bomb the airport.


Fear is the only reason that Muslim groups receive special treatment. Why else would the representatives of around two million people have money and time lavished on them in such an obscenely disproportionate way, while no one much bothers about the peaceable Hindus? And why else would the Government throw £90 million at PVE (Preventing Violent Extremism) – an unaccountable, contradictory, bureaucratically convoluted counter-terrorism initiative that has the authorities snuggle up to homophobic, misogynistic West-haters, just so long as they don't actually use violence?


The whole mess was highlighted this week in the Policy Exchange report Choosing Our Friends Wisely, which catalogues how the Government has empowered reactionaries, marginalised moderates and driven councils and police into bed with enemies of our way of life. Due diligence has been even more lacking here than for Lloyds TSB and HBOS.

"A new generation is being radicalised, sometimes with the very funds that are supposed to be countering radicalisation," say the report's authors, Shiraz Maher, himself a former radical, and Martyn Frampton. For example, Tower Hamlets council awarded a substantial grant to the Cordoba Foundation, an Islamist pressure group, which in turn offered a platform to the radical Islamic group Hizb ut-Tahrir, which promotes the message that democracy is forbidden in Islam.

As Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, Ruth Kelly came to realise that government policy towards Muslims was counter-productive. What is necessary, she says in the foreword to this report, is to stop pandering, to give incentives for good behaviour and disincentives for bad, and to defend the Western values shared by many British Muslims. She has a special commendation for Hazel Blears, who almost alone in the Cabinet is standing up to Jack Straw in the interests of national unity, common sense and morality. Moderate Muslims, embarrassed daily by their so-called community leaders, deserve a total change of direction in government policy.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4975163/Stop-pandering-to-enemies-of-our-way-of-life.html

That was 2009.  Imagine what it is like now.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 05:21:44 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #115 on: June 05, 2017, 05:21:28 am »
And Trump say's he stands with Britain.  I think this would be a great place for criticism of the way Britain has allowed Sharia Law and has catered to the terrorists in the country.  To acknowledge that this kind of pandering is dangerous to its citizens.

So because the President says he stand with a country after a horrific attack, you are saying he supports the muslimization of Briton? You are out of your effing mind with Donny Derangement.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #116 on: June 05, 2017, 05:34:34 am »
So because the President says he stand with a country after a horrific attack, you are saying he supports the muslimization of Briton? You are out of your effing mind with Donny Derangement.

Well not exactly.  I think we should all stand with the citizens of Britain who have been exposed to the Islamization of their country.  Who have to endure terrorist attacks because their leaders allowed it to happen.  I pray for the people of Britain and all other countries who have lost their freedom to live in security due to bad government choices.

Trump did push his travel ban in the wake of this horrendous attack.  But like Britain we are also hiding the dark secret that our country is slowly being radicalized without much opposition.  When there are terrorist training camps in over 30 of our states a lip service travel ban seems useless.  I want to hear the President really take a stand against the Islamization of our country before we are a mirror of
Britain's radical Islamic problem.





« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 06:27:49 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #117 on: June 05, 2017, 11:02:44 am »
The language of the Fourteenth Amendment is very clear.  If the authors meant something other than what the words say, they should have put that into the Amendment.  They did not.

Too bad, so sad.  If a person is born within the United States, he or she is a citizen.  Period.

You are plainly wrong...again. Someone occupying US territory illegally is clearly not "subject to our jurisdiction" as they remain citizens of another nation, and thus subject to the jurisdiction of THAT nation. So in a sense, you are correct that the language is clear and should be read plainly...and as such, being born to those here illegally, and who are thus not subject to our jurisdiction, are not natural born citizens.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #118 on: June 05, 2017, 11:20:32 am »
You are plainly wrong...again. Someone occupying US territory illegally is clearly not "subject to our jurisdiction" as they remain citizens of another nation, and thus subject to the jurisdiction of THAT nation. So in a sense, you are correct that the language is clear and should be read plainly...and as such, being born to those here illegally, and who are thus not subject to our jurisdiction, are not natural born citizens.

 :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands:
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Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #119 on: June 05, 2017, 11:25:39 am »
You are plainly wrong...again. Someone occupying US territory illegally is clearly not "subject to our jurisdiction" as they remain citizens of another nation, and thus subject to the jurisdiction of THAT nation. So in a sense, you are correct that the language is clear and should be read plainly...and as such, being born to those here illegally, and who are thus not subject to our jurisdiction, are not natural born citizens.

Absolutely wrong.  Anyone who is physically present in the US is presumptively subject to US jurisdiction, with very few exceptions, such as for diplomats. 

Or are you saying that the US cannot enforce its own laws against somebody who is here illegally because the US lacks jurisdiction over that person, precisely because of the fact that he's here illegally?  In other words, the only logical outcome of your position is that the US immigration laws cannot be enforced against someone who is here illegally because that person is not subject to the jurisdiction of the US. 

Furthermore, "natural born" has nothing to do with the relevant text in the Constitution, which heavily implies that you're incorporating arguments that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

If there were any validity to your argument you would be a very rich man because there are, as I said earlier, thousands and thousands of people who had the misfortune to be born while their parents, both citizens of other countries - and therefore not subject to the jurisdiction of the US according to you - were temporarily in the US, either for study or for vacation, and who have never been back to the US since they were six months old.  These people are now obliged to pay sometimes hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in taxes, penalties, and interest to the US because they became citizens at birth. 

Tell me:  if your position is so obvious and correct, why hasn't a single one of these people avoided US tax based on it?  They're all pretty wealthy, and are almost all represented by very intelligent, creative lawyers, and yet not a one has litigated what you claim is a blindingly obvious point?   I find that just a wee bit hard to believe. 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 11:34:51 am by Oceander »

Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #120 on: June 05, 2017, 11:38:10 am »
The ban was based on the fact that the banned countries do not have the ability or desire to seriously vet these potential travelers.

Apparently, it is felt that the countries you name have better vetting.

I doubt it seriously, but this ban is a start.  I believe in starts.

The ban only has any validity whatsoever if one believes that terrorists in the banned countries are too stupid or naive to travel from other countries not on the ban list.  Otherwise it's just an empty exercise in grandstanding.

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #121 on: June 05, 2017, 12:08:51 pm »
The ban was based on the fact that the banned countries do not have the ability or desire to seriously vet these potential travelers.

Apparently, it is felt that the countries you name have better vetting.

I doubt it seriously, but this ban is a start.  I believe in starts.

The countries I mentioned don't have the ability or desire to vet their people either.  We've let several hundred thousand Afghans into the U.S> in the last 3-4 years with little or no vetting.  No background checks...none of the necessary things that should have been done before they came over.

Iraq's government...while a little more stable than Afghanistan's...doesn't have good vetting practices either.

So assuming that those countries left off the list have better vetting practices is an illusion that at some point will prove fatal.

Combine that with states that are actively encouraging sanctuary cities...the porous southern border and local and state attorney's that refuse to investigate the Muslims in their midst and do their best not to aid the Feds in their investigations...it's a recipe for disaster sooner than later.
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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #122 on: June 05, 2017, 01:28:11 pm »
You are plainly wrong...again. Someone occupying US territory illegally is clearly not "subject to our jurisdiction" as they remain citizens of another nation, and thus subject to the jurisdiction of THAT nation. So in a sense, you are correct that the language is clear and should be read plainly...and as such, being born to those here illegally, and who are thus not subject to our jurisdiction, are not natural born citizens.

@Mesaclone   

One thing this discussion once again proves conclusively is that @Oceander will NEVER admit that he is wrong about anything!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Oceander

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #123 on: June 05, 2017, 01:31:54 pm »
@Mesaclone   

One thing this discussion once again proves conclusively is that @Oceander will NEVER admit that he is wrong about anything!


I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong.  Until then I won't.  The people forced to go through the IRS' OVDP is strong evidence I'm not wrong.  if the Fourteenth did not make them citizens automatically at birth, they would have litigated the issue successfully by now. 

Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump tweets for his travel ban as drama unfolds in London
« Reply #124 on: June 05, 2017, 01:33:44 pm »
I'll admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong.  Until then I won't.  The people forced to go through the IRS' OVDP is strong evidence I'm not wrong.  if the Fourteenth did not make them citizens automatically at birth, they would have litigated the issue successfully by now.

So the actual words of the people who constructed the 14th in congress have NO meaning whatever for you?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien