'Van hits pedestrians' on London Bridge in 'major incident'

[Wingnut]

How the ef did this thread jump the curb and take left turn to a  Nazi's and Jew discussion.

Get back on topic for christ sakes. 

[NavyCanDo]

The majority of police officers in the UK still do not carry guns. The ones you see on TV are special tactical unuts that have to be called in.

[MOD3]

How the ef did this thread jump the curb and take left turn to a  Nazi's and Jew discussion.

Get back on topic for christ sakes. 

Agreed.  This is not a rehash of WWII or NAZIs.

[sneakypete]

How the ef did this thread jump the curb and take left turn to a  Nazi's and Jew discussion.

Get back on topic for christ sakes.

@Wingnut

You can't see the similarities between what happened back then and what is happening now?

Really? The lessons of history that are repeated over and over again have nothing to teach you?

Same game,different players.

[NavyCanDo]

Fortunately that hasn't happened here - yet....

Why do we have such short memories? Not picking on you, because the majority of people for some reason forget that we have had attacks by Islamic terrorist since 911. Boston, Times Square bombing, The attack at the Recruiting office, Fort Hood, Chapel Hill NC SUV attack, to name a few.  It has happen here, and it will again.

[Victoria33]

Actually, after decades in the saddle, it is second nature, no matter what is going on. Not just eyes, but ears, motor sounds, commotions, etc. I tended bar in a biker bar years ago, and those instincts for spotting developing trouble, changes in a crowd, just don't go away. I'm not paranoid, just tuned in to the surroundings.

@Smokin Joe
@CatherineofAragon
@Freya

First, I just got an email from son, Wayne, to tell me he was not in the area of the attacks last night, that he is safe.

I had a retired friend who was a sheriff's deputy.  We would go to a restaurant and he would ask for certain seating so he could survey the people in there.  He did it every time.  No person was behind his back.  That put me facing the back of the restaurant.

My son has a friend in Florida who is a retired Florida detective.  When he would go to dinner with him, this detective would do the same thing - get a seat so he could see everyone.  That would put Wayne facing the back of the restaurant. 

Both Wayne and I would see the kitchen when we were with our "ex-cop" friend.

[Bigun]

Why do we have such short memories? Not picking on you, because the majority of people for some reason forget that we have had attacks by Islamic terrorist since 911. Boston, Times Square bombing, The attack at the Recruiting office, Fort Hood, Chapel Hill NC SUV attack, to name a few.  It has happen here, and it will again.

And most all happened in gun free zones!

[Gideon300]

And most all happened in gun free zones!

"Gun-free" zones are only gun free for those who respect the law. 

[Bigun]

"Gun-free" zones are only gun free for those who respect the law.

Very true!  They are, in fact, free fire zones for criminals and terrorists!

[NavyCanDo]

The majority of police officers in the UK still do not carry guns. The ones you see on TV are special tactical unuts that have to be called in.

This just from the mouth of the London Police Official giving a press briefing....."expect to see an increase of police presence on the streets, both armed an UNARMED."

Its lunacy to prevent private citizens from owning and carrying a gun, but in this day and age to prevent police officers from carrying is lunacy times 1000.

[Bigun]

This just from the mouth of the London Police Official giving a press briefing....."expect to see an increase of police presence on the streets, both armed an UNARMED."

Its lunacy to prevent private citizens from owning and carrying a gun, but in this day and age to prevent police officers from carrying is lunacy times 1000.

What has CONCLUSIVELY been shown to work is no  one knowing who has a gun and who doesn't!

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

Greed and jealousy.

You forgot the Jews were going to take over the world, were the reason Germany lost WWI and they were not part of the Aryan race.   Anti-Semitism in Europe was wide and deep. 

The original plan was to migrate them out of Germany ... hence the black market passports.  But Hitler found a more lasting and final solution.

By the time Hitler's grasp on power was secure and total the Jewish fate was sealed and there was no amount of bending to the state that would have changed it.

FWIT, I, too, would like historical light shined on the fate of the Gypsies.

@sneakypete

[Victoria33]

I always keep my head on a swivel whether it be on my bike or out in public.  I plan on keeping my head when others around me are losing theirs.  Literally and figuratively speaking.

@Wingnut

Parked my car in a parking garage - got in the elevator in the parking garage along with five others.  It stopped mid floors.  The others in there went into instant panic.  I immediately thought of how to get out of there.  I looked up and saw I could get out if the men in there held me up - I would fit into that opening.  I tried to calm those people down, saying if it didn't move soon, I would go out the top.  One woman, one man, said they couldn't stand being in small places - they were useless.  It finally moved and we got out.  That was a learning time - be a McGiver (sp), and figure it out by yourself as others may panic.

If there is a problem, I immediately go into solving that problem.  Women scream, I don't know why they do that as a scream gets you nothing.  I am not a screamer, I am a solver.  When I go in a place, I look for exits.

[Sanguine]

@Victoria33, glad to hear he's OK.   

[Idiot]

@Smokin Joe
@CatherineofAragon
@Freya

First, I just got an email from son, Wayne, to tell me he was not in the area of the attacks last night, that he is safe.

I had a retired friend who was a sheriff's deputy.  We would go to a restaurant and he would ask for certain seating so he could survey the people in there.  He did it every time.  No person was behind his back.  That put me facing the back of the restaurant.

My son has a friend in Florida who is a retired Florida detective.  When he would go to dinner with him, this detective would do the same thing - get a seat so he could see everyone.  That would put Wayne facing the back of the restaurant. 

Both Wayne and I would see the kitchen when we were with our "ex-cop" friend.

I sit next to a guy in church....far back left by the door, who conceal carries with an ankle holster.  As a matter of fact we discussed it before the service started and my comment was...geez....I hope you are a good shot...lol.  He was a military marksman... I was awarded a marksmanship award in college, but that doesn't mean I can hit the broadside of a barn now...lol.  Isn't it a crying shame to have to have armed parishioners..........

[Sanguine]

I sit next to a guy in church....far back left by the door, who conceal carries with an ankle holster.  As a matter of fact we discussed it before the service started and my comment was...geez....I hope you are a good shot...lol.  He was a military marksman... I was awarded a marksmanship award in college, but that doesn't mean I can hit the broadside of a barn now...lol.  Isn't it a crying shame to have to have armed parishioners..........

It makes me feel safer.  We know that bad things can happen in churches, too. 

[dfwgator]

It makes me feel safer.  We know that bad things can happen in churches, too.

It happened a few years ago in a church in Fort Worth. 

[TomSea]

As it stands now, I think we already have enough Mosques in the US; as sad as this tragedy is, only the most naive stick to their multiculturalism.  This has to be the final wake-up call.

[dfwgator]

As it stands now, I think we already have enough Mosques in the US; as sad as this tragedy is, only the most naive stick to their multiculturalism.  This has to be the final wake-up call.

There is even an Islamic center right across the street from my Kids' high school, in our very Republican DFW suburb.

[TomSea]

There is even an Islamic center right across the street from my Kids' high school, in our very Republican DFW suburb.

I know a Mosque was torched in Newcastle about 5 years ago. If one keeps up with it, one finds a number of these kinds of incidences.

[TomSea]

Did the guards not even have pepper spray? A powerful pepper spray even would have helped. I would want a concealed carry, that can be a problem in bars per the law. I don't drink in bars for all intents and purposes anymore anyway. Too many risks like being pulled over even if one has not had much to drink.

Martial arts is another option too.

[TomSea]

Sure, we have a right to defend ourselves but as pointed out, in this case, the terrorists could have been armed a lot better as well than with knives, say I've got my Sir Sauer 220 against 3 who have more firepower, I'd just not forget Orlando and I believe an off-duty officer acting as a security guard exchanged fire with the killer at first.  Pretty sad all the way around.

Someone should have been around with bear spray quality pepper spray at the least.

[sneakypete]

You forgot the Jews were going to take over the world, were the reason Germany lost WWI and they were not part of the Aryan race.   Anti-Semitism in Europe was wide and deep. 

@Right_in_Virginia

I didn't forget it,I just don't buy into it as being factual. Other than there was a lot of anti-Semitism in Europe. Fear and hatred of strangers is a genetic survival trait that has been pounded into humanity since the Cave Man days. It's as natural as breathing,but it's nothing that should bother intelligent people of the 21st Century. Yeah,some people of every nationality are evil by nature,but it takes a devout fundamentalist religious belief to make these herd people dangerous. Left to their own devices,most people seem to manage to get along with other people without feeling the need to commit genocide.

Don't forget,there were Germans who went to the labor camps themselves for hiding Jews,and I have no doubt there were many more who wanted to do the same things,but were too afraid of the consequences that would land on themselves and their own families if they were caught. Don't forget that at it's base Nazism was and is a form of rule by a fascist government police state. If you are accused,you ARE guilty. We have a hard time really comprehending that,but it's true.

The original plan was to migrate them out of Germany ...

Yes,it was. Very few left,though. The Nazis were willing to let them go,but they had to leave their wealth behind. Any that left would be virtually penniless when trying to start life in a new country. That's a tough hill to climb,and the reason why so many Jews ignored the warnings and remained behind while assuring themselves that "Hitler will listen to reason because that is what reasonable people do!" They clearly weren't taking into account the fact that Hitler wasn't a reasonable man. He was a freaking megalomaniac that was paranoid on top of it. You can't reason with people like that.

 

hence the black market passports.

There was nothing black market about them. They were legitimate internal travel documents that allowed the people named the freedom to leave Germany. They were even issued by the SS,and it was the SS that provided their transportation to the docks at Hamburg,and protected them from the German police while escorting them there. Not even the purest German was going to go up against Himmler.

They only started to be issued after war was declared,and AFAIK,only Jews were allowed to buy them. I may be wrong about the last part,though.That is what I have read,but I have a really hard time believing the SS  would refuse the money from the foreign family of a Gypsie,homosexual,drug addict,etc,etc,etc if they came up with the cash and wanted to buy a boat ticket for their German relative.

The "passport for Jews" thing was an established government program that involved the SS (at a minimum) in Germany,as well as the governments of at least 3 other countries that I know of,Cuba,the US,and Canada.  Jews with wealthy relatives living in Canada or the US that had the cash and was willing to pay it to buy their relatives way out of Germany could buy the official document for each family member. Once there were enough of them the SS would send them to Hamburg,where they would get on a commercial ocean liner to go to Cuba. Cuba was playing the role of the middleman,but it was the final destination for German Jews with relatives living in Cuba.

Have no idea how the Canadians handled it,but the US had a member of the US embassy in Cuba handle all the paperwork there once all the fees had been paid,and then the German Jews were allowed to get on another ship and go to America to meet up with their relatives/sponsors.

What makes this all just a touch shady is that AFAIK,the US government still doesn't want to admit any official involvement in  this program. Most likely because for some reason that no one,even the people at the US embassy in Cuba that were handling the paperwork knew,one day they were just told to stop the paperwork,and that no more German Jews would be allowed in the US,

My own PERSONAL best guess is this happened because it was about this time when some of the labor camps quit being labor camps,and became death factories. The US refused to officially recognize the horrors of Nazism until US forces were in Germany and eastern Europe,and overrunning the camps.  I don't think King Roosevelt or Truman wanted to explain why they hadn't publicized this earlier because they were afraid the American public would be outraged and stop everything else to immediately invade Germany to free the Jews. It would have been insane to invade Germany that early in the game. The US dead and wounded would have been enormous if they had. The plan was to bleed Germany out as much as possible before invading. This last part is my theory only,and worth ever dime you paid for it.

 

But Hitler found a more lasting and final solution.

Or so he thought,anyhow.

By the time Hitler's grasp on power was secure and total the Jewish fate was sealed and there was no amount of bending to the state that would have changed it.

Maybe. What I do know to be a fact is that the program stopped when the US embassy in Cuba stopped issuing visas to German Jews. Lots of speculation about that one,but the only FACT AFAIK is that the system was shut down,not why it was shut down.

BTW,the Jews on that Hamburg liner spent a couple of months living on it in Havana harbor while governments did a lot of backstage wrangling. The Cubans wouldn't let them come ashore to ask for sanctuary. Eventually the decision was made to take them back to Hamburg on the same ship that brought them to Cuba.

Some of the ship's passengers died in the labor or death camps,but a surprising number, to me anyhow, managed to survive and find their way to Israel after the war.

They all speak highly of the German Captain of the ship,and his efforts to make them more comfortable and to save them. The ship itself was bombed by the Allies during a bombing raid on Hamburg as she laid tied up at the docks.

FWIT, I, too, would like historical light shined on the fate of the Gypsies.

Good luck with that one. Nobody seems to like them any better today than they did in the 1930's.

The real horror story is what happened to the Slavs in Eastern Europe,though. There is a PBS series titled "Russia's War,Blood in the Snow" that is based on actual film footage as well as written reports found in the KGB archives after communism collapsed in Russia.  The people in Eastern Europe were little more than anvils that got hammered between the Russians and the Germans. You will see actual film footage taken by the German Army themselves of them herding everyone,man,woman,and child,into a small church in some farming village in Ukraine,and then nailing the doors and windows shut and setting it on fire with flame-throwers,and all of them joking and laughing with each other as the church burned and the people in it died screaming. A few managed to beat shutters off a few windows to try to escape,but there were German troops watching the windows,and gunning them down before they could climb out.

And these people are smiling and laughing while doing it.

There is also film footage of the Red Army murdering villagers,too.

You can probably check the DVD out at your local library if you want to watch it.

@sneakypete

[Lando Lincoln]

[Right_in_Virginia]

Thanks for the reply @sneakypete