Author Topic: Cuomo calls on Trump to provide emergency assistance at Penn Station  (Read 1318 times)

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Online corbe

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Cuomo calls on Trump to provide emergency assistance at Penn Station

BY
Stephen Rex Brown

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Sunday, May 21, 2017, 2:37 PM



Gov. Cuomo called on President Trump Sunday to provide emergency assistance to remedy the “intolerable” situation at Penn Station that will create “a summer of agony.”

Earlier this month, executives from Amtrak, which has operational control over “Pain Station,” said they would shut down tracks for extended periods over the next year to repair long-neglected infrastructure.

That means the 600,000 passengers who pass through the station each day will face a nightmarish 20% reduction in service during peak hours, Cuomo said.

<..snip..>

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan/cuomo-asks-trump-emergency-assistance-penn-station-article-1.3183796

« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 10:36:25 pm by corbe »
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online corbe

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  Unlike the Guy Below My money is on Trump does it, It is his hometown.

No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline EC

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And the President can do what, exactly? Set up a subspace field around PennStation, so months of work is done in an hour by the rest of the world's clocks? Go back in time 20 years, do a hostile takeover of Amtrak, and make sure the maintenence is done in a timely fashion?
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Sounds like some pretty poor planning on your part, Andrew.   

Offline XenaLee

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Cuomo calls on Trump to provide emergency assistance at Penn Station

BY
Stephen Rex Brown

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Sunday, May 21, 2017, 2:37 PM



Gov. Cuomo called on President Trump Sunday to provide emergency assistance to remedy the “intolerable” situation at Penn Station that will create “a summer of agony.”

Earlier this month, executives from Amtrak, which has operational control over “Pain Station,” said they would shut down tracks for extended periods over the next year to repair long-neglected infrastructure.

That means the 600,000 passengers who pass through the station each day will face a nightmarish 20% reduction in service during peak hours, Cuomo said.

<..snip..>

Cuomo calls on Trump to provide emergency assistance at Penn Station

That link doesn't work.... at least for me. 
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Offline Cripplecreek

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  Unlike the Guy Below My money is on Trump does it, It is his hometown.

Ford was pretty moderate for his day but wildly more conservative than most republicans today.

geronl

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600,000 passengers a day sounds like a lot of money changing hands, why do they need Trump to provide assistance when they should be paying for it themselves?

geronl

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  Unlike the Guy Below My money is on Trump does it, It is his hometown.

Trump always loved subsidies and handouts

Offline Cripplecreek

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600,000 passengers a day sounds like a lot of money changing hands, why do they need Trump to provide assistance when they should be paying for it themselves?

Good point. They should take a look at what private money is doing for downtown Detroit. The transformation over the last 5 years has been astounding.

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Implement flex work hours. Be creative baby cuomo

Online corbe

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That link doesn't work.... at least for me. 


   Thanks @XenaLee for the heads up, I fixed it
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Implement flex work hours. Be creative baby cuomo

Yup. I drive through a couple of high traffic construction areas every afternoon on my way to work. It means stop and wait for a certain number of cars to go through 1 way then they wait as traffic from the other direction goes through.

Taint no thang.

Offline endicom

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Implement flex work hours. Be creative baby cuomo


How? This is Amtrak.

Offline endicom

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Sounds like some pretty poor planning on your part, Andrew.


This is Amtrak.

Wingnut

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How? This is Amtrak.

So?  Improvise.  NY needs to put it's big boy pants on.

Offline Cripplecreek

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So?  Improvise.  NY needs to put it's big boy pants on.

Cuomo needs to ask Amtrak for the money.

Wingnut

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Cuomo needs to ask Amtrak for the money.

Amtrak. Gov.

Turnup. Blood

Money. Help. Not found.

Offline Gefn

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Dang!

Now that I'm walking, I was planning on spending a two days in the city with  a night at my favorite three star hotel, so I can hit the museums and the planetarium

And maybe if there are any members who live there, buy them a drink. (Spouses too of course).

i have 200 saved up for this. I hope the buses and trains are working or I'm screwed.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 11:46:22 pm by Freya »
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Offline XenaLee

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   Thanks @XenaLee for the heads up, I fixed it

No problem.  And thank you!
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Offline XenaLee

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Cuomo needs to ask Amtrak for the money.

Cuomo had six freakin years, as governor, to ask his good buddy Barry for the cash to fix that little "infrastructure" problem.   Why didn't he?  (rhetorical, as usual)
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Online Fishrrman

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"Gov. Cuomo called on President Trump Sunday to provide emergency assistance to remedy the “intolerable” situation at Penn Station that will create “a summer of agony.”
Earlier this month, executives from Amtrak, which has operational control over “Pain Station,” said they would shut down tracks for extended periods over the next year to repair long-neglected infrastructure."


Heh.
Does lil' Andy think that Mr. Trump (or anyone) can magically wave his hand, and create new tracks at NYPenn?

I worked into and out of Penn Station on Amtrak trains from 1979 until 2012.

To repair tracks, to replace old switches and crossovers with new ones, you have to take the tracks [under repair] "out of service" for the time involved. You can't run trains over track that is missing (because it's in the process of being renovated).
Just replacing "straight track" out on the mainline is work enough.
Trying to replace switches in the crowded environs of a busy station is a BIG JOB, not easy.

Now I understand that few in this forum will have "seen NY Penn" as I have, from the cab of an engine. But the portion of the station that will be undergoing renovations (the "west end") is the most complicated. Two tracks come out of the tunnels, then expand to six (with complicated crossovers), then diverge into four "ladders" that reach towards the 21 tracks of the station.

Although it's been 5 years since I was there, I believe the area where they're having all the trouble is on the south side (downtown side) of the station leading towards the tracks that are used mostly by NJ Rail (Jersey Transit). Also known as the "M" and "U" ladders. The Albany (Empire) service also comes in on this side, but Amtrak has announced that it will be re-routed over to Grand Central (where it ran out of until 1991) during the switch replacement (so that won't be affected as much).

It's the NJ Rail commuter trains that are going to take the biggest hit, insofar as cancelling some service is involved.

But it's important to realize that until around 1995 or so -- when they built the connection that connects (the former Erie) Morris and Essex lines and permits NJ Rail trains [that would previously have had to terminate at Hoboken] to come right through the tunnels into Penn -- this traffic didn't exist for Penn. I'm guessing that a lot of it is going to be terminating back over at Hoboken "for the duration".

They've got to go someplace, and Hoboken will have to do.

BTW, the "east end" of Penn has 4 tunnels, and most of those switches were replaced back when I was still working. The east end is in better shape, but there's still only 21 tracks and there's still only "so much room".

The station has "limits to growth", beyond which the potential is there for serious delays. Get one train out of place, and it starts affecting everything else comin' down the line.

If you've read this far, you might ask, "so...what's the real solution?"
I've thought of that.
First -- more tracks, most likely on the downtown side.
BUT -- to do this, you'd have to knock down about 30 buildings at street level, at least, probably more.
Penn is not "deep underground" -- it's more like "cut and cover". When it was built, the Pennsylvania Railroad demolished over TWO HUNDRED buildings to clear out the land. It took them FOUR YEARS just to dig the hole. Think you're gonna do that in New York today?

What New York needs is a THIRD rail station. But again, where could the real estate be found on which to build it? Back in 1902 or so, it was easy enough to condemn the tenements of Hell's Kitchen for Penn. But today?

I've got an idea, however. As original and outrageous as it gets:
Build the new station under Central Park.
Some of the Park would have to be disrupted during construction, but could be restored once construction was finished.
And of course tunnels and connecting lines into and out of it.
This will cost trillions.
But it's the only way New York will be able to expand its rail service to meet future demands.

There ain't enough room in Penn any more.
And Grand Central (which I worked in, as well) is full, too.

Offline rodamala

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"Gov. Cuomo called on President Trump Sunday to provide emergency assistance to remedy the “intolerable” situation at Penn Station that will create “a summer of agony.”
Earlier this month, executives from Amtrak, which has operational control over “Pain Station,” said they would shut down tracks for extended periods over the next year to repair long-neglected infrastructure."


Heh.
Does lil' Andy think that Mr. Trump (or anyone) can magically wave his hand, and create new tracks at NYPenn?

I worked into and out of Penn Station on Amtrak trains from 1979 until 2012.

To repair tracks, to replace old switches and crossovers with new ones, you have to take the tracks [under repair] "out of service" for the time involved. You can't run trains over track that is missing (because it's in the process of being renovated).
Just replacing "straight track" out on the mainline is work enough.
Trying to replace switches in the crowded environs of a busy station is a BIG JOB, not easy.

Now I understand that few in this forum will have "seen NY Penn" as I have, from the cab of an engine. But the portion of the station that will be undergoing renovations (the "west end") is the most complicated. Two tracks come out of the tunnels, then expand to six (with complicated crossovers), then diverge into four "ladders" that reach towards the 21 tracks of the station.

Although it's been 5 years since I was there, I believe the area where they're having all the trouble is on the south side (downtown side) of the station leading towards the tracks that are used mostly by NJ Rail (Jersey Transit). Also known as the "M" and "U" ladders. The Albany (Empire) service also comes in on this side, but Amtrak has announced that it will be re-routed over to Grand Central (where it ran out of until 1991) during the switch replacement (so that won't be affected as much).

It's the NJ Rail commuter trains that are going to take the biggest hit, insofar as cancelling some service is involved.

But it's important to realize that until around 1995 or so -- when they built the connection that connects (the former Erie) Morris and Essex lines and permits NJ Rail trains [that would previously have had to terminate at Hoboken] to come right through the tunnels into Penn -- this traffic didn't exist for Penn. I'm guessing that a lot of it is going to be terminating back over at Hoboken "for the duration".

They've got to go someplace, and Hoboken will have to do.

BTW, the "east end" of Penn has 4 tunnels, and most of those switches were replaced back when I was still working. The east end is in better shape, but there's still only 21 tracks and there's still only "so much room".

The station has "limits to growth", beyond which the potential is there for serious delays. Get one train out of place, and it starts affecting everything else comin' down the line.

If you've read this far, you might ask, "so...what's the real solution?"
I've thought of that.
First -- more tracks, most likely on the downtown side.
BUT -- to do this, you'd have to knock down about 30 buildings at street level, at least, probably more.
Penn is not "deep underground" -- it's more like "cut and cover". When it was built, the Pennsylvania Railroad demolished over TWO HUNDRED buildings to clear out the land. It took them FOUR YEARS just to dig the hole. Think you're gonna do that in New York today?

What New York needs is a THIRD rail station. But again, where could the real estate be found on which to build it? Back in 1902 or so, it was easy enough to condemn the tenements of Hell's Kitchen for Penn. But today?

I've got an idea, however. As original and outrageous as it gets:
Build the new station under Central Park.
Some of the Park would have to be disrupted during construction, but could be restored once construction was finished.
And of course tunnels and connecting lines into and out of it.
This will cost trillions.
But it's the only way New York will be able to expand its rail service to meet future demands.

There ain't enough room in Penn any more.
And Grand Central (which I worked in, as well) is full, too.

I too have "seen" Penn Sta.

Back in college I had a summer internship in Engineering working half my time out of 30th Street and the rest in the field with the surveyors all up and down the corridor.

A lot of time shooting existing geometry in Sunnyside, then doing stakeout for the turnout installation, then shooting as-builts so the next turnout could be dropped in.  It was rather miraculous what could be done... putting all the puzzle pieces together bit by bit, as windows opened.

What is really amazing, however, is how the PRR did all of this with private capital.

Amazing what can be done when there is a profit motive.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Cuomo had six freakin years, as governor, to ask his good buddy Barry for the cash to fix that little "infrastructure" problem.   Why didn't he?  (rhetorical, as usual)

Quite the opposite of Rick Snyder who refused to ask Obama for bailout money for Detroit. Snyder did ask for $250 million for part of our cost to build the Gordie Howe bridge over the Detroit river. (Canada is effectively paying the entire $5 billion cost) Obama refused to respond so Snyder said we will pay for it ourselves. When it became apparent that the bridge would be built with or without Obama's approval he came running to offer the $250 mil.  The catch was that Snyder would have to give $100 million to Detroit pension funds. Snyder refused the money and told Obama that we'll take care of it. Obama was effectively trying to force Snyder to take a bailout.

Naturally plenty here in the state aren't happy picking up that $250 million tab but Snyder is correct that the feds will come running with a hand out for revenue generated and we'll be in a stronger bargaining position.


Online Fishrrman

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rodamala wrote:
"What is really amazing, however, is how the PRR did all of this with private capital."

A great book on the building of Penn Station (it was much more than just "building a station") is "Manhattan Gateway" by the late William D. Middleton.

The amount of capital and design the PRR put into the project was roughly equivalent (in its time) as was putting a man on the moon in the 1960's...