This Is A Coup Against Our Right To Govern Ourselves

[INVAR]

When one sees individuals that were dubbed "leading conservatives" like Rush, Hannity, and many others acting like their left wing counterparts and basically operating as state controlled operatives protecting the president at all costs, I certainly don't personally see the hyperbole.

I recall not that long ago that when it was announced that Trump was inviting Muslim Brotherhood ally and sympathizer Erdogan to the White House that a Facebook friend remarked if Obama was doing that people would be livid.  And he would be right.  And many of them would have been right to have been livid.  Naturally, the people supporting Trump were silent.

Absolutely true.  Daring to point that out simply means you are to be decreed an enemy, siding with Hillary and "the coup" and treated as a threat to the Republic by those who have decided to adopt the very same tactics that Obama's acolytes have.

[Smokin Joe]

Absolutely true.  Daring to point that out simply means you are to be decreed an enemy, siding with Hillary and "the coup" and treated as a threat to the Republic by those who have decided to adopt the very same tactics that Obama's acolytes have.

'But....But... It's okay when WE do it.'
 (Sounds familiar, doesn't it?)
Exactly why principles are so important.

Rush lost me years ago when he'd run right up to the brink of the issues with Clinton and stop just short of the finish line. It's like waiting through a long joke and waiting for the punch line.
The joke was on us.
Then, when he said over the air the name of his favorite cigar (which happened to be my favorite cigar, too), the wait time tripled, the price doubled, and I couldn't afford them any more. Grrrrr.

[roamer_1]

'But....But... It's okay when WE do it.'
 (Sounds familiar, doesn't it?)
Exactly why principles are so important.

Rush lost me years ago when he'd run right up to the brink of the issues with Clinton and stop just short of the finish line. It's like waiting through a long joke and waiting for the punch line.
The joke was on us.
Then, when he said over the air the name of his favorite cigar (which happened to be my favorite cigar, too), the wait time tripled, the price doubled, and I couldn't afford them any more. Grrrrr.

I had hit 'Shut up and sing' wrt Rush a long time ago. Aligning with Romney was the 'Oh, hell no!'
Haven't heard a peep of him since.
Fair weather.

[Mesaclone]

I'll take His Word over your empty words every single time, and I will invoke the moral issues of God as vociferously as our Founders did, if not moreso.

You however, are revealing yourself a living epitome of Isaiah 30:10.

Just like a liberal Leftist.  Just like those who defend homosexual marriage, abortion and every other sick and perverted issue out there.  Comes someone daring to utter what scripture states, what morality the biblical religions used to profess, and what God's Word plainly says why... THAT'S SELF RIGHTEOUS!  And you cannot stand any of that being uttered within your sight.

Apparently your religion is politics and a man whom you place all your hope and faith in.

You have your reward.

Truly.

Pointing to the Truth as a witness. 

Because in that Day, you will have no excuse to get angry and exclaim you had no warning.

Our modern day Pharisee...knows what god thinks and wants based on his goofy interpretations of a book written and assembled by other Pharisee-like men. And, like the Pharisees, claims to speak for god. Those who disagree are of course ignorant, dangerous and doomed.

You are exactly what Jesus preached against...self righteous, arrogant, not seeking but certain, and full of condemnation. You think Jesus is contained within a book written by men....but YOU are wrong...that book is no more than a clarion call to seek out god, not a road map. God may have cornered the market on "Truth", but you as a man have no claim to it...so stop pretending that you do because you've read a book.

You should listen to Jesus own words before you condemn others...'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

[Smokin Joe]

What book did you get those out of? Cite, please?

[Mesaclone]

What book did you get those out of? Cite, please?

From the book of the disciple Thomas.

[Smokin Joe]

From the book of the disciple Thomas.

A little more bibliography, please.

[roamer_1]

A little more bibliography, please.

gnostic gospel... Nag Hamadi Codices.
prophets... itching ears,,, all that.

[Mesaclone]

A little more bibliography, please.

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

Its from the Gospel of Thomas, fragments of which date as early as the 2nd century...roughly the same as that of the biblical gospels. Its authenticity holds up quite well academically relative to the other 4...and the Jesus Seminar included it in its literary analysis called The Five Gospels. Like the others, it is not itself a path to god or Jesus...it is a "sayings" Gospel rather than a story...but it does call one to seek.

[Smokin Joe]

gnostic gospel... Nag Hamadi Codices.
prophets... itching ears,,, all that.

I was wondering about all that 'God is in you' part. Sure He is, I invited Him. But that doesn't mean I am Him.

[Mesaclone]

gnostic gospel... Nag Hamadi Codices.
prophets... itching ears,,, all that.

Nag Hamadi is where a very large stash of early Christian materials was found, much to the glee of archaeologists around the world. No idea what you mean by "itching ears".

[Smokin Joe]

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html

Its from the Gospel of Thomas, fragments of which date as early as the 2nd century...roughly the same as that of the biblical gospels. Its authenticity holds up quite well academically relative to the other 4...and the Jesus Seminar included it in its literary analysis called The Five Gospels. Like the others, it is not itself a path to god or Jesus...it is a "sayings" Gospel rather than a story...but it does call one to seek.

Thank you for the reference. I have looked a lot of places, and it turns out He was there with me all the way. I do not see where your interpretation gives you the authority to call someone else a "Pharisee", though.

[INVAR]

Our modern day Pharisee...knows what god thinks and wants based on his goofy interpretations of a book written and assembled by other Pharisee-like men. And, like the Pharisees, claims to speak for god. Those who disagree are of course ignorant, dangerous and doomed.

You are exactly what Jesus preached against...self righteous, arrogant, not seeking but certain, and full of condemnation. You think Jesus is contained within a book written by men....but YOU are wrong...that book is no more than a clarion call to seek out god, not a road map. God may have cornered the market on "Truth", but you as a man have no claim to it...so stop pretending that you do because you've read a book.

You should listen to Jesus own words before you condemn others...'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

You and your gnosticism I ignore.  You have no authority that you ascribe to yourself to declare His Word to be null and void as you do - and then go on to declare those who abide by it Pharisees because they are governed by it.

You do as your father the devil does, and you do it well - even when you have said there is no such thing as Satan.

[INVAR]

Thank you for the reference. I have looked a lot of places, and it turns out He was there with me all the way. I do not see where your interpretation gives you the authority to call someone else a "Pharisee", though.

It's the seared conscience thing that they cannot stand.

[Mesaclone]

Thank you for the reference. I have looked a lot of places, and it turns out He was there with me all the way. I do not see where your interpretation gives you the authority to call someone else a "Pharisee", though.

Its not my interpretation, its his penchant for telling others they are ignorant if they disagree with HIS interpretation of the bible. His repeated assertions that there is one narrow path is akin to how the Pharisees made the kingdom of god difficult to access...putting obstacles in their road to god. It is an opinion, founded in having read many of Invar's expose's on how he knows what god wants. Who knew god was so involved in daily politics...as Invar asserts...I guess that render to Caesar what is Caesars actually meant "tell Caesar how to govern".

[Mesaclone]

It's the seared conscience thing that they cannot stand.

You make my case again, assuming you know what is in another's conscience....you do not even know what is in your own, but you freely judge that of others. Who does that sound like to you?

[Smokin Joe]

Its not my interpretation, its his penchant for telling others they are ignorant if they disagree with HIS interpretation of the bible. His repeated assertions that there is one narrow path is akin to how the Pharisees made the kingdom of god difficult to access...putting obstacles in their road to god. It is an opinion, founded in having read many of Invar's expose's on how he knows what god wants. Who knew god was so involved in daily politics...as Invar asserts...I guess that render to Caesar what is Caesars actually meant "tell Caesar how to govern".

How is he putting obstacles in your road to The Almighty? I see him pointing to a path he has found that works.

[roamer_1]

Nag Hamadi is where a very large stash of early Christian materials was found, much to the glee of archaeologists around the world.

It isn't Christian material

No idea what you mean by "itching ears".

You would if you knew actual Christian material.

[roamer_1]

I was wondering about all that 'God is in you' part. Sure He is, I invited Him. But that doesn't mean I am Him.

Yeah... Gnosticism is a crazy ride on a crazy train.

[INVAR]

You make my case again, assuming you know what is in another's conscience....you do not even know what is in your own, but you freely judge that of others. Who does that sound like to you?

Your vitriolic reaction to the scriptures and statements made in conjunction with them speaks volumes.

I have experienced virtually the same kind of reaction from militant Atheists and Satan worshippers as you levy here - and in almost the same kinds of language.

[INVAR]

Yeah... Gnosticism is a crazy ride on a crazy train.

Nothing new under the sun.  The First Century Church had to deal with it on a massive scale.

[Mesaclone]

How is he putting obstacles in your road to The Almighty? I see him pointing to a path he has found that works.

Telling others that their politics are out of line with what God wants...or that their politics and beliefs are wrong because they are depending on men rather than god...is twisting god into a tool for his own political argument. It is just wrong to make god your plaything in this way IMHO. My path is firm, but not everyone's is as clear to them and this kind of garbage can be hurtful to people as they seek to find god in their lives. Its not "pointing to a path...that works" that is the problem, its proclaiming that is the ONLY path that can make it hard for others to feel free to find god as they choose. Multiply that kind of arrogance and certainty by millions...and you have real road blocks for many who are "seeking".

[Mesaclone]

Yeah... Gnosticism is a crazy ride on a crazy train.

Much like the bible. 800 year old men, guys staying alive inside of whales, entire planets flooded, snakes talking to women, people turning into salt pillars, 2 people populating a planet, people made out of ribs, god ordering the slaughter of children...it goes on and on. By comparison, many of the Gnostic gospels are islands of common sense and sanity...though a number of them are a bit "loopy" in biblical fashion. With gnostic gospels AND the bible, a wise man has to separate the chaff from the wheat.

[INVAR]

Telling others that their politics are out of line with what God wants...or that their politics and beliefs are wrong because they are depending on men rather than god...is twisting god into a tool for his own political argument. It is just wrong to make god your plaything in this way IMHO. My path is firm, but not everyone's is as clear to them and this kind of garbage can be hurtful to people as they seek to find god in their lives. Its not "pointing to a path...that works" that is the problem, its proclaiming that is the ONLY path that can make it hard for others to feel free to find god as they choose. Multiply that kind of arrogance and certainty by millions...and you have real road blocks for many who are "seeking".

It's amazing that in the space of one paragraph you not only condemned me, you condemned Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and a score of the Founders who made if abundantly clear that the only path to maintaining liberty in this country was one founded in the morality as contained in the scriptures and in the Christian religion you so despise.

A people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.

And here you are declaring that those who urge a people to be reconciled to and be governed by God are the real tyrants.

[Mesaclone]

Nothing new under the sun.  The First Century Church had to deal with it on a massive scale.

To a large degree, it WAS the First Century Church. Later, Arianism became the prevalent doctrine of the church. Athanasius brand of belief won out eventually, and then he and the church literally killed off those who disagreed and destroyed what written works they could find. As late as the 380's, men like Augustine himself were avid followers of Mani and his version of Christianity (Manichaeism).

But early on, there were scriptures and letters and stories of Jesus spread across the Mediterranean...many of them tied to disciples themselves, such as Thomas. There is a Gospel of Peter as well, FYI. Eventually, books began being collected and grouped, but it took centuries for that process to get locked into the current set of books...and even those, like Mark's final verses, have bogus additions that did not exist in the earliest copies of the work.