Author Topic: Levin: Biggest News Yesterday Was Not Obamacare … and 'This Is Going to Be an Earthquake'  (Read 21887 times)

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Offline Doug Loss

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NO Sir! my 'They" is the state governments!  They have immense power but, for the most part, refuse to exercise it!

11 states have voted to exercise it, and the resolution to do so is wending its way through many others (it's passed one legislative chamber in 10 more states, and is being considered in committee in 23 more).
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Bigun

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11 states have voted to exercise it, and the resolution to do so is wending its way through many others (it's passed one legislative chamber in 10 more states, and is being considered in committee in 23 more).

We need to learn how to enforce what we already have before we start worrying about further amending it!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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We need to learn how to enforce what we already have before we start worrying about further amending it!

@Bigun

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Offline Doug Loss

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We need to learn how to enforce what we already have before we start worrying about further amending it!

Nothing wrong with continuing to try that, even though if hasn't worked so far.  But amending the Constitution to make it much less susceptible to the rampant misinterpretation the progressives have forced upon it over the past 120 years or so is also a valid and viable action to take, and (many of us think) one much more likely to succeed than the one you're advocating, which has been tried many times over the years with notably little success.
My political philosophy:

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2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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But amending the Constitution to make it much less susceptible to the rampant misinterpretation the progressives have forced upon it over the past 120 years

It sounds like you believe the misinterpretation the progressives have forced upon us would not be codified in the amended Constitution.  If so, please....present your evidence @Doug Loss

Thanks.

Offline Doug Loss

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It sounds like you believe the misinterpretation the progressives have forced upon us would not be codified in the amended Constitution.  If so, please....present your evidence @Doug Loss

Thanks.

FAQ

More specifically:

If the Federal Government Ignores the Current Constitution, Why Would They Adhere to an Amended Constitution?

If you're asking about progressives hijacking the Article V convention, anything that came out of such a convention would still have to be ratified by 38 states to go into effect.  Additionally, the idea that progressives would control such a convention sufficiently to force progressive amendments through is nothing more than conjecture anyway.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:56:45 pm by Doug Loss »
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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FAQ

More specifically:

If the Federal Government Ignores the Current Constitution, Why Would They Adhere to an Amended Constitution?

Thanks, but my question is what makes you think an amended Constitution would not turn our foundational document into a progressive's wet dream @Doug Loss ?


« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:59:10 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Doug Loss

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Thanks, but my question is what makes you think an amended Constitution would not turn our foundational document into a progressive's wet dream?

Read my modified comment above.  And if you truly believe that is a likely possibility, you're being as defeatist without evidence as INVAR is.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 03:00:31 pm by Doug Loss »
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Read my modified comment above.

It doesn't answer my question ... but thanks.

Offline Doug Loss

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It doesn't answer my question ... but thanks.

You're question is why my opinion is better than your opinion.  What kind of answer did you expect?  I could just as easily asked you to present evidence backing up your opinion, which you would be equally unable to do.  Since there's never been an Article V convention before, there's exactly no evidence to support either of our positions.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 03:03:18 pm by Doug Loss »
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Sanguine

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Well, maybe you naysayers have a point.  What is your plan?

Offline TomSea

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Tell us Levin; glad this thread is getting such a big response, really belongs in radio shows.

Offline bigheadfred

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Well, maybe you naysayers have a point.  What is your plan?

TRUMP--The wheels on the bus go round and round.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline INVAR

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Got it.  You're afraid of your countrymen and believe all hope is lost.  Even if that's the case, it's no argument for giving up.  Many of the rest of us have more faith in our fellows to do the right thing when forced to make a decision. 

Are you kidding me? 

The current state of our culture, the corruption in government and the wholesale ignorance of our history and heritage being displayed daily indicts your assessment.  Outside of an increasingly shrinking group of Americans, I have absolutely no faith in the larger populace of this land to make decisions that will benefit liberty.  You and I could write a book on the abject wholesale ignorance of this people about anything outside of what TMZ and Youtube or Facebook might tell them about celebrities.  I read and hear that fact every single day.  By people whom I would not expect to hear idiocy and ignorance from.  The fact Hillary almost 'won' the election ought to scream that truth to you.  The fact Bernie Sanders has the following and popularity he does ought to make that clear.  The fact those who claim to be on our side are now parroting the need for Government healthcare, bigger government and more entitlement programs - ought to declare in neon lights the fact that this people are not interested in making correct decisions that benefit the kind of liberty intended for us.

As Levin has correctly stated last year - we are no longer a Constitutional Republic in form and function.  We have devolved into a Socialist Democracy.

Look, we can close your eyes and pretend the decay, depravity, debt and decline is not happening but that does not change the reality of where we have arrived. 

I do not put faith in people who put no faith in Him who blessed the country to begin with. If you are going to ignore the warnings of the Founders as I paraphrased above, who paraphrased the warnings from history and the bible in favor of blind optimism then I must interpret your assessment as a form of Normalcy Bias.

And I did not say to abandon or give up the attempts to do an Article V convention to propose Amendments.  I think that is a necessary step in order to showcase the cause that every attempt to deal with Statist tyranny was attempted and failed via corruption, subterfuge and sabotage.  I'm warning against the false hope that somehow starting that process is going to save us. 

It's not.

More than half the population does not want a limited government.   Government has replaced Providence and Religion as the place a people turn to for aid and hope.  They now turn to government and the courts.  They want a bigger, more provisional and intrusive government - precisely because they do not trust you with liberty and despise that you have it.  And I am not just talking about the usual suspects on the Left.  Your average Joe Sixpack thinks government should be there to provide, make things fair and even the playing fields.  That is not an atmosphere liberty can exist for long.

As I said, we are no longer a people capable of freedom.  You can refer to the quotes and lectures from Adams, Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Henry and a host of other Founders who repeatedly warned that the kind of liberty they fought to preserve could only be maintained by a religious and moral people.  We are no longer a religious or moral people and the self-evident fact of that state is our depraved and wicked culture and the amount of corruption now intransigent in nearly all our institutions.

II Chronicles 7:14 was the place to actually begin the push for an Article V convention, but - that is not going to happen, because the bulk of the churches and synagogues in this nation themselves are not interested in even suggesting that course of action.

The root cause of the entire need for an Article V convention is spiritual, not political.  But so long as politics are the only course of action anyone is looking at -  the cancer that eats a society's fundamental core foundations will continue to metastasize and all the bandaids we try to put on it are not going to save the patient.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 05:26:46 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Tell us Levin; glad this thread is getting such a big response, really belongs in radio shows.

@mystery-ak

Offline the_doc

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@Bigun

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@Bigun @Right_in_Virginia

What's there to "learn" about "how to enforce" the Constitution? 

Our Founders said that our country would fail if scoundrels are running our government--and this despite our Constitution (barring our use of the Article V provision in the Constitution, perhaps).  So, we have to get rid of the scoundrels.  This is ultimately why we need the COS to move forward.  We have allowed too many evil people to make themselves comfortable in the government. 

Many, many decades of history has shown that we cannot vote the scoundrels out of office--at least, not quickly enough.  (Too many people in our democratic electorate are complete fools.)  Even as we have tried that exclusively democratic approach to reform our government over the decades, the scoundrels have gotten worse.  All three branches of the federal government are corrupt.  They have locked arms to maintain the status quo.

I know of a Constitutional way in which the Executive Branch acting alone could conceivably fix the problem.  But Trump has expressly indicated that he is not willing to do what needs to be done.  In this peculiar way, he has revealed himself to be at least a quasi-scoundrel, i.e., guilty of dereliction of duty.     

Since our POTUS is not part of the solution, he is part of the problem.  (He is trying to be a good POTUS, but he is way over his head.  He lacks moral courage.)

***

The States are conservative enough to enact Constitutional solutions.  It seems crazy that so many TBR members are afraid to try the only thing that could work without the feds or even the POTUS on our side.  And I say that continuing to believe that Trump will fix the problem is national suicide. 

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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NO Sir! my 'They" is the state governments!  They have immense power but, for the most part, refuse to exercise it!
I would suggest that they have the Ultimate power in this country.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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We need to learn how to enforce what we already have before we start worrying about further amending it!
That is how the Constitution clearly paves the way for the States to enforce the Constitution.

I still do not understand why you do not wish to abide by the provisions within the Constitution to ensure it endures.

It provides for the ultimate authority in this country to be the States, yet you are running away from even considering the states exercising that authority.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Doug Loss

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Oh, I get your position, @INVAR. We're doomed, nothing can possibly work, nothing can save us.  You'll just have to pardon us and ignore us as we refuse to accept your "let's just give up now" position and continue to fight to save and reinvigorate our principles and our Constitution.  We'll do it with or without you, or if we fail at least we'll have tried to do something, rather than just moaning about how horrible everything is.
My political philosophy:

1) I'm not bothering anybody.
2) It's none of your business.
3) Leave me alone!

Offline Smokin Joe

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That is how the Constitution clearly paves the way for the States to enforce the Constitution.

I still do not understand why you do not wish to abide by the provisions within the Constitution to ensure it endures.

It provides for the ultimate authority in this country to be the States, yet you are running away from even considering the states exercising that authority.
Ultimate authority resides with the people.

The States, at the time the Constitution was written, were still sovereign governments, each to themselves, complete with their own armies, ("Militia", in Barclay's Dictionary, London ca 1815, is defined as "The Army, in its entirety."), Secretaries of State, Treasuries and treasurers, and ability to levy taxes, and Constitutions of their own.
 
The trick, under the Constitution, was to get the people of those sovereign entities to agree on one authority to settle disputes and help provide for better commerce and the common defense of all those little nations. The Federal Government, severely limited, was created to fulfill that role, the Constitution was the compact which assigned it specific and narrow duties and powers to fulfill it.

When people look at the War between the States, they assume a national government, and color their response to those States which pulled out of that compact as if they had left a nation, and not a voluntary bloc of nations. They do not understand the loyalty Lee felt toward Virginia as opposed to the government that oversaw and coordinated the efforts of the several States, nor do they understand the ire provoked by the invasion of Maryland and Virginia by armies from other Sovereign States, which the Federal Government was supposed to prohibit, because the idea of the States as sovereign entities has been lost since 1865, crushed under the mass of the Federal Army, and the Federal Government became, in effect, a National Government post war. (No longer overseeing a Federation of States, but ruling it).

That was further eroded by the 17th Amendment, which effectively removed the State Governments from the equation by making US Senate elections a matter of running at large instead of being elected by the State Legislatures. The States were cut out of the loop at that point, and left to go begging for a share of the revenues the Federal Government collected, revenue the Federal Government used to leverage the States into compliance.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 10:55:50 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Ultimate authority resides with the people.

The States, at the time the Constitution was written, were still sovereign governments, each to themselves, complete with their own armies, ("Militia", in Barclay's Dictionary, London ca 1815, is defined as "The Army, in its entirety."), Secretaries of State, Treasuries and treasurers, and ability to levy taxes, and Constitutions of their own.
 
The trick, under the Constitution, was to get the people of those sovereign entities to agree on one authority to settle disputes and help provide for better commerce and the common defense of all those little nations. The Federal Government, severely limited, was created to fulfill that role, the Constitution was the compact which assigned it specific and narrow duties and powers to fulfill it.

When people look at the War between the States, they assume a national government, and color their response to those States which pulled out of that compact as if they had left a nation, and not a voluntary bloc of nations. They do not understand the loyalty Lee felt toward Virginia as opposed to the government that oversaw and coordinated the efforts of the several States, nor do they understand the ire provoked by the invasion of Maryland and Virginia by armies from other Sovereign States, which the Federal Government was supposed to prohibit, because the idea of the States as sovereign entities has been lost since 1865, crushed under the mass of the Federal Army, and the Federal Government became, in effect, a National Government post war. (No longer overseeing a Federation of States, but ruling it).

That was further eroded by the 17th Amendment, which effectively removed the State Governments from the equation by making US Senate elections a matter of running at large instead of being elected by the State Legislatures. The States were cut out of the loop at that point, and left to go begging for a share of the revenues the Federal Government collected, revenue the Federal Government used to leverage the States into compliance.
Maybe, but the 'people' are not the ones who can change the Constitution.  It is the States.  You mention 17th Amendment.  That too can be changed by the States to restore their power, as it is not permanent.

True, the people in individual States elect representatives to vote on their behalf, but when it comes down to amending a Constitution or calling an Article V convention, it is the States that decide.

Having said all that, my expression of Ultimate Authority was intended to contrast the authority of the federal govt vs the authority of the collective States, and the States have unquestioned superior authority as collectively they can dissolve Congress, fire the Executive and send the Supreme Court packing if they wish to do so.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline the_doc

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Oh, I get your position, @INVAR. We're doomed, nothing can possibly work, nothing can save us.  You'll just have to pardon us and ignore us as we refuse to accept your "let's just give up now" position and continue to fight to save and reinvigorate our principles and our Constitution.  We'll do it with or without you, or if we fail at least we'll have tried to do something, rather than just moaning about how horrible everything is.

For the most part, I agree with INVAR.  I think we have become a weirdly evil nation as a whole, not just a bunch of basically good folks who have been victimized by evil politicians.  The scumbags we have put into office are representative of our electorate, not just representatives of our electorate.  And I think the biggest problem by far is the apostasy of professing Christian churches. 

The only difference I see between INVAR's position and mine is that I hope our Creator has planned to give us a little more time to produce the national repentance that neither INVAR or I can see. 

Notice that in this way I am siding with you even if I am also siding with INVAR.  I recommend you read The Harbinger, by Jonathan Cahn.  (I love Mark Levin, and I certainly support his position for the COS, but I believe that The Harbinger is way more important than anything Mark Levin has ever written.  [BTW, Cahn's spiritual insight from Isaiah 9 will actually show any spiritually thoughtful churchgoer why Trump's nomination by the GOP after thoroughly trashing a better man alarmed me.])

Offline txradioguy

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Thanks, but my question is what makes you think an amended Constitution would not turn our foundational document into a progressive's wet dream @Doug Loss ?

Maybe because the progressives hate the idea of a Convention of States that places limitations on their power.

Plus you know...that fact you like to point out about how many state houses and governorships the GOP has.

Right now at this point in time there is no way Liberals would be able to to a damn thing at a Constitutional Convention. We don't need the blue states to even attend to make any of this happen.

For once they'd have to truly sit down STFU and accept the results.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline txradioguy

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Tell us Levin; glad this thread is getting such a big response, really belongs in radio shows.

Don't you have something beads to count or flies to pull the wings off of?

This thread is exactly where it belongs.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline the_doc

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Ultimate authority resides with the people.

The States, at the time the Constitution was written, were still sovereign governments, each to themselves, complete with their own armies, ("Militia", in Barclay's Dictionary, London ca 1815, is defined as "The Army, in its entirety."), Secretaries of State, Treasuries and treasurers, and ability to levy taxes, and Constitutions of their own.
 
The trick, under the Constitution, was to get the people of those sovereign entities to agree on one authority to settle disputes and help provide for better commerce and the common defense of all those little nations. The Federal Government, severely limited, was created to fulfill that role, the Constitution was the compact which assigned it specific and narrow duties and powers to fulfill it.

When people look at the War between the States, they assume a national government, and color their response to those States which pulled out of that compact as if they had left a nation, and not a voluntary bloc of nations. They do not understand the loyalty Lee felt toward Virginia as opposed to the government that oversaw and coordinated the efforts of the several States, nor do they understand the ire provoked by the invasion of Maryland and Virginia by armies from other Sovereign States, which the Federal Government was supposed to prohibit, because the idea of the States as sovereign entities has been lost since 1865, crushed under the mass of the Federal Army, and the Federal Government became, in effect, a National Government post war. (No longer overseeing a Federation of States, but ruling it).

That was further eroded by the 17th Amendment, which effectively removed the State Governments from the equation by making US Senate elections a matter of running at large instead of being elected by the State Legislatures. The States were cut out of the loop at that point, and left to go begging for a share of the revenues the Federal Government collected, revenue the Federal Government used to leverage the States into compliance.

@musiclady

Excellent essay, @Smokin Joe!