Levin: Biggest News Yesterday Was Not Obamacare … and 'This Is Going to Be an Earthquake'

[Bigun]

Ultimate authority resides with the people.

The States, at the time the Constitution was written, were still sovereign governments, each to themselves, complete with their own armies, ("Militia", in Barclay's Dictionary, London ca 1815, is defined as "The Army, in its entirety."), Secretaries of State, Treasuries and treasurers, and ability to levy taxes, and Constitutions of their own.
 
The trick, under the Constitution, was to get the people of those sovereign entities to agree on one authority to settle disputes and help provide for better commerce and the common defense of all those little nations. The Federal Government, severely limited, was created to fulfill that role, the Constitution was the compact which assigned it specific and narrow duties and powers to fulfill it.

When people look at the War between the States, they assume a national government, and color their response to those States which pulled out of that compact as if they had left a nation, and not a voluntary bloc of nations. They do not understand the loyalty Lee felt toward Virginia as opposed to the government that oversaw and coordinated the efforts of the several States, nor do they understand the ire provoked by the invasion of Maryland and Virginia by armies from other Sovereign States, which the Federal Government was supposed to prohibit, because the idea of the States as sovereign entities has been lost since 1865, crushed under the mass of the Federal Army, and the Federal Government became, in effect, a National Government post war. (No longer overseeing a Federation of States, but ruling it).

That was further eroded by the 17th Amendment, which effectively removed the State Governments from the equation by making US Senate elections a matter of running at large instead of being elected by the State Legislatures. The States were cut out of the loop at that point, and left to go begging for a share of the revenues the Federal Government collected, revenue the Federal Government used to leverage the States into compliance.

@Smokin Joe

Thank God!  Someone here gets it!

[INVAR]

I would suggest that they have the Ultimate power in this country.

The Federal Beast and the SCOTUS have instructed the states that they DO NOT have any power to infringe upon or limit Federal power or intrusion.  That was made abundantly clear when Arizona dared to enforce existing federal law on it's Southern Border when the Beast refused to under Obama.

Nope.  The States too have bought the lie that all power resides in Mordor.

Check Smoking' Joe's post above for the historical fact concerning when the States lost their sovereign power and why.

[INVAR]

Oh, I get your position, @INVAR. We're doomed, nothing can possibly work, nothing can save us.

You obviously did not comprehend what I wrote because I am assuming you think the only solution to the tyranny we are become accustomed is political.

If you think only politics can save us - then yes, my position in your estimation is that nothing you do is going to work or save you or this nation.

continue to fight to save and reinvigorate our principles and our Constitution.  We'll do it with or without you, or if we fail at least we'll have tried to do something, rather than just moaning about how horrible everything is.

You are welcome to continue practicing insanity until unicorns fart Skittle rainbows for you each morning.  I'll continue addressing the root cause of why we have arrived where we are while you continue to put bandaids on cancer and pretend it's a cure.

Good luck with the unicorns and the bandaids.

[Smokin Joe]

Maybe because the progressives hate the idea of a Convention of States that places limitations on their power.

Plus you know...that fact you like to point out about how many state houses and governorships the GOP has.

Right now at this point in time there is no way Liberals would be able to to a damn thing at a Constitutional Convention. We don't need the blue states to even attend to make any of this happen.

For once they'd have to truly sit down STFU and accept the results.

While I agree with the theory, we have seen the results of relying on Republicans to limit power, government, and spending, and frankly, the results do not proclaim the reliability we wish to see.

The idea that those in State Governments with their eye on the brass ring of Federal Politics limiting the power of the very positions to which they aspire tells me that rowboat will be towing a sea anchor.
That isn't to say that can't be overcome by titillating the comparative envy and greed of those who know they will go no higher up the governmental food chain and want the power back at home to wield for the good of the State, the Country, (and fun and profit which seem to creep in somewhere with amazing consistency)--oh!  and the good of their constituents--those voter people, of course.

If the right play is made by those who truly want to limit Federal Power and return those powers to the States, and the right angle exposed for those who are just there for the prestige, power and money, it may indeed be possible to form coalitions, state by state, to prevail, even within the GOP.
I just don't have a plugged nickel's worth of faith in the untainted patriotism of the GOP at this point, a lack of faith they have fully earned in this State and elsewhere.
 
That isn't saying there are not good people there, but there remains a significant contingent who, regardless of party, will vote with the prevailing wind.

The forces allied against this, seeking to corrupt the process, to render it a waste of time are many and well funded, and will be laying down the astroturf like stadium groundskeepers, relentlessly, and with their other hand in a position to control media and the presentation of what the public will be told to believe.
 
It will take a well organized and coordinated social media sh*tstorm to overcome the lies, and expect to be met with the same, conducted by professionals who not only understand the medium, but who are masters of the game when it comes to politics.
 
All this just to pick delegates.
 
Beyond that, if this should get that far, expect the onslaught against a favored recent primary candidate to look like amateur hour compared to the attacks on delegates, measures, proposed amendments and the outright lies about the nature, desired effects,  and effects of the Amendments under discussion, especially with respect to the aggrieved classes who have plenty of time to create serious security problems and may even be motivated enough to physically or violently attack the people and venues.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm not saying give in because it will be hard, I am just saying if you do, go in with both feet on the ground, and gird your loins, because it is going to be a nasty fight.

The state legislators like having the pork to split among their districts and buy votes with, too, and the Federal contingent provides that. Make it more direct, and the whole current two-party food chain loses stroke from bottom to top, because the State legislatures will have to directly tax the people of their state to get the stuff to give away instead of just hand out money from Congress. Why, that might mean challengers would take their jobs.

[Doug Loss]

You obviously did not comprehend what I wrote because I am assuming you think the only solution to the tyranny we are become accustomed is political.

If you think only politics can save us - then yes, my position in your estimation is that nothing you do is going to work or save you or this nation.

You are welcome to continue practicing insanity until unicorns fart Skittle rainbows for you each morning.  I'll continue addressing the root cause of why we have arrived where we are while you continue to put bandaids on cancer and pretend it's a cure.

Good luck with the unicorns and the bandaids.

Fine, fine.  Keep doing whatever it is you're doing and assure yourself that nothing else can possibly help us.  Those of us actually trying to address and respond to the problem will continue to do so without paying you much attention.  And when we succeed, you can then thank us for not listening to your defeatism.  Not that you will, of course...

[Bigun]

While I agree with the theory, we have seen the results of relying on Republicans to limit power, government, and spending, and frankly, the results do not proclaim the reliability we wish to see.

The idea that those in State Governments with their eye on the brass ring of Federal Politics limiting the power of the very positions to which they aspire tells me that rowboat will be towing a sea anchor.
That isn't to say that can't be overcome by titillating the comparative envy and greed of those who know they will go no higher up the governmental food chain and want the power back at home to wield for the good of the State, the Country, (and fun and profit which seem to creep in somewhere with amazing consistency)--oh!  and the good of their constituents--those voter people, of course.

If the right play is made by those who truly want to limit Federal Power and return those powers to the States, and the right angle exposed for those who are just there for the prestige, power and money, it may indeed be possible to form coalitions, state by state, to prevail, even within the GOP.
I just don't have a plugged nickel's worth of faith in the untainted patriotism of the GOP at this point, a lack of faith they have fully earned in this State and elsewhere.
 
That isn't saying there are not good people there, but there remains a significant contingent who, regardless of party, will vote with the prevailing wind.

The forces allied against this, seeking to corrupt the process, to render it a waste of time are many and well funded, and will be laying down the astroturf like stadium groundskeepers, relentlessly, and with their other hand in a position to control media and the presentation of what the public will be told to believe.
 
It will take a well organized and coordinated social media sh*tstorm to overcome the lies, and expect to be met with the same, conducted by professionals who not only understand the medium, but who are masters of the game when it comes to politics.
 
All this just to pick delegates.
 
Beyond that, if this should get that far, expect the onslaught against a favored recent primary candidate to look like amateur hour compared to the attacks on delegates, measures, proposed amendments and the outright lies about the nature, desired effects,  and effects of the Amendments under discussion, especially with respect to the aggrieved classes who have plenty of time to create serious security problems and may even be motivated enough to physically or violently attack the people and venues.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm not saying give in because it will be hard, I am just saying if you do, go in with both feet on the ground, and gird your loins, because it is going to be a nasty fight.

The state legislators like having the pork to split among their districts and buy votes with, too, and the Federal contingent provides that. Make it more direct, and the whole current two-party food chain loses stroke from bottom to top, because the State legislatures will have to directly tax the people of their state to get the stuff to give away instead of just hand out money from Congress. Why, that might mean challengers would take their jobs.

Than you for this straight forward and unemotional statement of facts! 

B R A V O ! ! !

[txradioguy]

While I agree with the theory, we have seen the results of relying on Republicans to limit power, government, and spending, and frankly, the results do not proclaim the reliability we wish to see.

The idea that those in State Governments with their eye on the brass ring of Federal Politics limiting the power of the very positions to which they aspire tells me that rowboat will be towing a sea anchor.
That isn't to say that can't be overcome by titillating the comparative envy and greed of those who know they will go no higher up the governmental food chain and want the power back at home to wield for the good of the State, the Country, (and fun and profit which seem to creep in somewhere with amazing consistency)--oh!  and the good of their constituents--those voter people, of course.

If the right play is made by those who truly want to limit Federal Power and return those powers to the States, and the right angle exposed for those who are just there for the prestige, power and money, it may indeed be possible to form coalitions, state by state, to prevail, even within the GOP.
I just don't have a plugged nickel's worth of faith in the untainted patriotism of the GOP at this point, a lack of faith they have fully earned in this State and elsewhere.
 
That isn't saying there are not good people there, but there remains a significant contingent who, regardless of party, will vote with the prevailing wind.

The forces allied against this, seeking to corrupt the process, to render it a waste of time are many and well funded, and will be laying down the astroturf like stadium groundskeepers, relentlessly, and with their other hand in a position to control media and the presentation of what the public will be told to believe.
 
It will take a well organized and coordinated social media sh*tstorm to overcome the lies, and expect to be met with the same, conducted by professionals who not only understand the medium, but who are masters of the game when it comes to politics.
 
All this just to pick delegates.
 
Beyond that, if this should get that far, expect the onslaught against a favored recent primary candidate to look like amateur hour compared to the attacks on delegates, measures, proposed amendments and the outright lies about the nature, desired effects,  and effects of the Amendments under discussion, especially with respect to the aggrieved classes who have plenty of time to create serious security problems and may even be motivated enough to physically or violently attack the people and venues.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm not saying give in because it will be hard, I am just saying if you do, go in with both feet on the ground, and gird your loins, because it is going to be a nasty fight.

The state legislators like having the pork to split among their districts and buy votes with, too, and the Federal contingent provides that. Make it more direct, and the whole current two-party food chain loses stroke from bottom to top, because the State legislatures will have to directly tax the people of their state to get the stuff to give away instead of just hand out money from Congress. Why, that might mean challengers would take their jobs.

You pointed out one of the bigger problems with getting this done and that is within the GOP itself.  There are several other states that have passed legislation out of committee to join the Article V convention...but it's being blocked by State level Mitch McConnell wannabe's who don't like anything that even remotely sounds like a threat to their own power.

It's going to be a fight to get it done for sure and it's not something that will happen soon.  But I think it will happen.  Are the Beltway RINO's and Dems that reside in Sodom on the Potomac gonna like it?  Nope not one bit.  But this is the best non violent solution there is...to put power back where it belongs.

Despite some of the nay sayers here Texas officially becoming one of the States supporting an Article V convention is a big thing.  They can be at times an influence on other border states and the states they border.  Getting something like this past the RINO's we have in the state like David Dewhurst and his cronies took no small effort.

I like others hope this will have a domino effect to get other state legislatures to go ahead and pull the trigger on joining the convention.

[the_doc]

While I agree with the theory, we have seen the results of relying on Republicans to limit power, government, and spending, and frankly, the results do not proclaim the reliability we wish to see....

...I'm not saying don't do it. I'm not saying give in because it will be hard, I am just saying if you do, go in with both feet on the ground, and gird your loins, because it is going to be a nasty fight.

@Bigun
@txradioguy
@Doug Loss
@INVAR
@musiclady
@Sanguine

Bigun, I agree with Smokin Joe on every point in his two most recent essays.  I specifically fear that even our State legislators are too corrupt to allow anything good to come out of a COS.  But I read your posts on this thread as saying it's too risky to even have a COS.  By the same token, I read your posts as saying we have to find another way to fix the mess.

Well, I agree with Mark Levin insofar as he says he doesn't see any other human possibility for fixing our terrible mess--or even putting a temporary patch on our mess--as long as we are merely a spiritually pathetic nation that elects Trump as POTUS.  Trump will never lead us in the way we need to be led.  And as I have said elsewhere on these threads, the Republican Party itself has significant ownership of the historical destruction of States' Rights through crony capitalism and the associated abuse of federal power.

So, I am confused concerning your position.  You have come across as saying Don't do the COS.  But I say we have to do it, and as Smokin Joe has said, we'd better get ready for a knock-down-drag-out fight.  I just hope that there are enough Christian or at least God-conscious folks in the State governments to avert (or delay) the looming wrath of our Creator against our fallen Republic.

In short, I say it's too risky not to have a COS.  A COS is the fully Constitutional measure to get us back to our Constitution.
 

[INVAR]

Fine, fine.  Keep doing whatever it is you're doing and assure yourself that nothing else can possibly help us.  Those of us actually trying to address and respond to the problem will continue to do so without paying you much attention.  And when we succeed, you can then thank us for not listening to your defeatism.  Not that you will, of course...

Again, you chose not to comprehend what I have written.  You are NOT addressing the root cause of the problem, you are addressing the symptoms and consequences of the root cause of why you are even having to discuss the need for an Article V Convention.  Our woes as a culture and nation are not political.  The politics are an outgrowth of our debasement as a moral people.  You keep ignoring the root cause of where we find ourselves.  Almost deliberately. I am telling you again, as our Founders did - Liberty as you want the Article V process to protect - CANNOT EXIST within a nation of immoral and biblically unreligious people.

I DID NOT say DO NOT attempt a convention. I'm telling you NOT to put all your faith and hope into it.  Notwithstanding the fact that more than half the population will oppose any attempt to shrink or limit their god along with the caesars and fiefdoms that stand to lose power and money by any attempts to limit them.

I'm only supportive of making the attempt of an Article V convention for proposing amendments for the strategic purpose of establishing the cause for what will be actually necessary if this people become ready and serious to defend what remains of their liberties.  Because as I have said, and history teaches - you cannot slow or stop tyranny via civil means.

Read @Smokin Joe 's  estimation above of what is going to transpire at MINIMUM with a COS effort.  Scripture tells us to count the cost, and I am telling you that the political animals and government institutions at the local and state level will not be willing to do what is necessary to go up against Mordor and their machine.  We've witnessed that countless times from state initiatives that melted like brown sugar in a buttered red-hot iron skillet the moment the feds threatened to withhold funds or said 'no'.  Personal ambitions and money always take precedent.

If your efforts actually succeed to strip the feds of their power via mere modern-day politics, I will indeed be floored and stunned by every measure fathomable, probably to the point of utter disbelief.  Because the truth is dear sir is that liberty itself as enshrined by our forbears came from a construct that germinated in Providence and biblical principle and a vast majority of this population REJECTS.  The majority in the country do not want the liberty you or I want.  They want safety and security and provision by the hand of government.

This current corrupt government and this culture of rot we see daily is a direct reflection of we the people.  If you want to ignore that and beat your chest about how you are going to wrestle the dragon right now and win, you are not counting the cost at all.  You will be a platoon of horse-mounted calvary with swords charging an entire division of tanks.

[Sanguine]

@Bigun
@txradioguy
@Doug Loss
@INVAR
@musiclady
@Sanguine

Bigun, I agree with Smokin Joe on every point in his two most recent essays.  I specifically fear that even our State legislators are too corrupt to allow anything good to come out of a COS.  But I read your posts on this thread as saying it's too risky to even have a COS.  By the same token, I read your posts as saying we have to find another way to fix the mess.

Well, I agree with Mark Levin insofar as he says he doesn't see any other human possibility for fixing our terrible mess--or even putting a temporary patch on our mess--as long as we are merely a spiritually pathetic nation that elects Trump as POTUS.  Trump will never lead us in the way we need to be led.  And as I have said elsewhere on these threads, the Republican Party itself has significant ownership of the historical destruction of States' Rights through crony capitalism and the associated abuse of federal power.

So, I am confused concerning your position.  You have come across as saying Don't do the COS.  But I say we have to do it, and as Smokin Joe has said, we'd better get ready for a knock-down-drag-out fight.  I just hope that there are enough Christian or at least God-conscious folks in the State governments to avert (or delay) the looming wrath of our Creator against our fallen Republic.

In short, I say it's too risky not to have a COS.  A COS is the fully Constitutional measure to get us back to our Constitution.

That's a great summation, @Doug Loss.  I admit I don't have a lot of confidence in a COS, but I think we have to do it before we can move on to the next step, whatever that is. 

[Doug Loss]

That's a great summation, @Doug Loss.  I admit I don't have a lot of confidence in a COS, but I think we have to do it before we can move on to the next step, whatever that is.

'Tweren't me, 'twas @the_doc.

[Doug Loss]

Again, you chose not to comprehend what I have written.  You are NOT addressing the root cause of the problem, you are addressing the symptoms and consequences of the root cause of why you are even having to discuss the need for an Article V Convention.  Our woes as a culture and nation are not political.  The politics are an outgrowth of our debasement as a moral people.  You keep ignoring the root cause of where we find ourselves.  Almost deliberately. I am telling you again, as our Founders did - Liberty as you want the Article V process to protect - CANNOT EXIST within a nation of immoral and biblically unreligious people.

I DID NOT say DO NOT attempt a convention. I'm telling you NOT to put all your faith and hope into it.  Notwithstanding the fact that more than half the population will oppose any attempt to shrink or limit their god along with the caesars and fiefdoms that stand to lose power and money by any attempts to limit them.

I'm only supportive of making the attempt of an Article V convention for proposing amendments for the strategic purpose of establishing the cause for what will be actually necessary if this people become ready and serious to defend what remains of their liberties.  Because as I have said, and history teaches - you cannot slow or stop tyranny via civil means.

Read @Smokin Joe 's  estimation above of what is going to transpire at MINIMUM with a COS effort.  Scripture tells us to count the cost, and I am telling you that the political animals and government institutions at the local and state level will not be willing to do what is necessary to go up against Mordor and their machine.  We've witnessed that countless times from state initiatives that melted like brown sugar in a buttered red-hot iron skillet the moment the feds threatened to withhold funds or said 'no'.  Personal ambitions and money always take precedent.

If your efforts actually succeed to strip the feds of their power via mere modern-day politics, I will indeed be floored and stunned by every measure fathomable, probably to the point of utter disbelief.  Because the truth is dear sir is that liberty itself as enshrined by our forbears came from a construct that germinated in Providence and biblical principle and a vast majority of this population REJECTS.  The majority in the country do not want the liberty you or I want.  They want safety and security and provision by the hand of government.

This current corrupt government and this culture of rot we see daily is a direct reflection of we the people.  If you want to ignore that and beat your chest about how you are going to wrestle the dragon right now and win, you are not counting the cost at all.  You will be a platoon of horse-mounted calvary with swords charging an entire division of tanks.

Believe whatever you want, so long as you don't try to keep us from doing what needs to be done.

[libertybele]

You pointed out one of the bigger problems with getting this done and that is within the GOP itself.  There are several other states that have passed legislation out of committee to join the Article V convention...but it's being blocked by State level Mitch McConnell wannabe's who don't like anything that even remotely sounds like a threat to their own power.

It's going to be a fight to get it done for sure and it's not something that will happen soon.  But I think it will happen.  Are the Beltway RINO's and Dems that reside in Sodom on the Potomac gonna like it?  Nope not one bit.  But this is the best non violent solution there is...to put power back where it belongs.

Despite some of the nay sayers here Texas officially becoming one of the States supporting an Article V convention is a big thing.  They can be at times an influence on other border states and the states they border.  Getting something like this past the RINO's we have in the state like David Dewhurst and his cronies took no small effort.

I like others hope this will have a domino effect to get other state legislatures to go ahead and pull the trigger on joining the convention.

It is my understanding that 12 states were waiting to see what TX decided. 

[Sanguine]

'Tweren't me, 'twas @the_doc.

Sorry, I'm having a full-fledged Monday!

Doug/Doc - very similar.   

[txradioguy]

It is my understanding that 12 states were waiting to see what TX decided.

Then it would appear that as Texas goes...so goes the country.

[INVAR]

Believe whatever you want, so long as you don't try to keep us from doing what needs to be done.

How would I do that???  Do you want nothing but rah-rah cheerleaders or do you actually want some actual constructive ideas and things to consider?

You need to come to grips with some reality you seem to be ignoring here.  I'd love nothing better than the rule of law to be strengthened to undo the tyranny we so willingly have become accustomed.  But I also understand the reality of human nature and government and the condition of this culture and people in it.  You are ignoring it wholesale.

Are you truly going to go charging in there like calvary beating your chests in optimism without counting the cost and knowing the ground upon which you seek to fight??  You will be slaughtered and the guns you think you are bringing to stop tyrants are going to be turned upon you and what remains of liberty altogether.   Are you truly going to IGNORE the root cause of why we are even having this conversation to begin with?

Get it through your skull and know the ground you choose to fight on.  The majority of the population DO NOT WANT a limited government or liberty.   How do you plan to deal with that to get Amendments ratified if any actually make it out of the convention????  I have heard not a single effort made from proponents of Article V to address that issue.  Not one.  What I hear is that they "have faith" that the people will support them and do what is right.  And I shake my head at the abject hubris and imbecility of such an attitude when we have countless examples that placing such faith in the majority of the debased and hedonistic population is beyond stupid.  All I hear from proponents is that they insist that the majorities in the states will support them simply because the GOP controls a majority of legislatures.  Go back and read Smoking Joe's foresight of what is going to happen should this effort gain momentum and actually make it to the convention level.

Like I said, my support for the idea is strategic because I have no faith or belief that politics (which Article V is) will do what you want it to accomplish.   I think it would serve to the benefit of getting amendments passed and ratified if everyone who wants to preserve liberty understands that this is a last ditch effort to preserve the republic before we have to do that which will be necessary to stop tyranny.

Even then, only a religious and moral people are capable of liberty.  As societies become more corrupt and vicious, they will become more subjugated.  But somehow that sage truth from no less than Franklin is being ignored wholesale by a people who want liberty and think politics will safeguard it.

[Bigun]

@Bigun
@txradioguy
@Doug Loss
@INVAR
@musiclady
@Sanguine

Bigun, I agree with Smokin Joe on every point in his two most recent essays.  I specifically fear that even our State legislators are too corrupt to allow anything good to come out of a COS.  But I read your posts on this thread as saying it's too risky to even have a COS.  By the same token, I read your posts as saying we have to find another way to fix the mess.

Well, I agree with Mark Levin insofar as he says he doesn't see any other human possibility for fixing our terrible mess--or even putting a temporary patch on our mess--as long as we are merely a spiritually pathetic nation that elects Trump as POTUS.  Trump will never lead us in the way we need to be led.  And as I have said elsewhere on these threads, the Republican Party itself has significant ownership of the historical destruction of States' Rights through crony capitalism and the associated abuse of federal power.

So, I am confused concerning your position.  You have come across as saying Don't do the COS.  But I say we have to do it, and as Smokin Joe has said, we'd better get ready for a knock-down-drag-out fight.  I just hope that there are enough Christian or at least God-conscious folks in the State governments to avert (or delay) the looming wrath of our Creator against our fallen Republic.

In short, I say it's too risky not to have a COS.  A COS is the fully Constitutional measure to get us back to our Constitution.

@the_doc

The "other way" I am referring to is to elect people to our own state legislatures who understand the 9th and 10th amendments and will exercise their power to just say no to the fedgov!  I personally don't think any other way has a snowball's chance in hell.

[Doug Loss]

How would I do that???  Do you want nothing but rah-rah cheerleaders or do you actually want some actual constructive ideas and things to consider?

You need to come to grips with some reality you seem to be ignoring here.  I'd love nothing better than the rule of law to be strengthened to undo the tyranny we so willingly have become accustomed.  But I also understand the reality of human nature and government and the condition of this culture and people in it.  You are ignoring it wholesale.

Are you truly going to go charging in there like calvary beating your chests in optimism without counting the cost and knowing the ground upon which you seek to fight??  You will be slaughtered and the guns you think you are bringing to stop tyrants are going to be turned upon you and what remains of liberty altogether.   Are you truly going to IGNORE the root cause of why we are even having this conversation to begin with?

Get it through your skull and know the ground you choose to fight on.  The majority of the population DO NOT WANT a limited government or liberty.   How do you plan to deal with that to get Amendments ratified if any actually make it out of the convention????  I have heard not a single effort made from proponents of Article V to address that issue.  Not one.  What I hear is that they "have faith" that the people will support them and do what is right.  And I shake my head at the abject hubris and imbecility of such an attitude when we have countless examples that placing such faith in the majority of the debased and hedonistic population is beyond stupid.  All I hear from proponents is that they insist that the majorities in the states will support them simply because the GOP controls a majority of legislatures.  Go back and read Smoking Joe's foresight of what is going to happen should this effort gain momentum and actually make it to the convention level.

Like I said, my support for the idea is strategic because I have no faith or belief that politics (which Article V is) will do what you want it to accomplish.   I think it would serve to the benefit of getting amendments passed and ratified if everyone who wants to preserve liberty understands that this is a last ditch effort to preserve the republic before we have to do that which will be necessary to stop tyranny.

Even then, only a religious and moral people are capable of liberty.  As societies become more corrupt and vicious, they will become more subjugated.  But somehow that sage truth from no less than Franklin is being ignored wholesale by a people who want liberty and think politics will safeguard it.

You write an awful lot, but say very little new with each post.  Frankly, the repetition is getting pretty boring.

[INVAR]

You write an awful lot, but say very little new with each post.  Frankly, the repetition is getting pretty boring.

Okay, so you've got the attention span of a middle school student.  Let's boil it down to this then:

Do you want nothing but rah-rah cheerleaders or do you actually want some actual constructive ideas and things to consider?

If you want cheerleaders then you can forget about any support for your efforts from people like me.

Short enough for you?

[Doug Loss]

Okay, so you've got the attention span of a middle school student.  Let's boil it down to this then:

Do you want nothing but rah-rah cheerleaders or do you actually want some actual constructive ideas and things to consider?

If you want cheerleaders then you can forget about any support for your efforts from people like me.

Short enough for you?

So you don't realize that you're just repeating yourself, over and over, eh?

[INVAR]

So you don't realize that you're just repeating yourself, over and over, eh?

So much for persuading anyone to your cause.

[Sanguine]

You are two of my favorite posters and it's painful to see you arguing over style.

I will agree though, that I don't usually read past the second paragraph.  Too much to read; too little time.

@INVAR
@Doug Loss

[Doug Loss]

So much for persuading anyone to your cause.

Oh, I'm happy to try to persuade people to the cause.  But all you seem to do is repeat that it can't possibly work, everything is lost, etc., etc.  It's clearly not possible to convince you otherwise, so why bother?

[INVAR]

But all you seem to do is repeat that it can't possibly work, everything is lost, etc., etc.

So you have a reading comprehension problem too.

It's clearly not possible to convince you otherwise, so why bother?

You've done absolutely no convincing as far as I am concerned.  You have not addressed a single point I made.  All you have demanded is for me to stay out of your way which I assume is a demand to cheerlead or shut up.

[Doug Loss]

So you have a reading comprehension problem too.

Look, this isn't getting us anywhere.  We fundamentally disagree, and the personal insults don't serve anyone.  Neither of us is going to persuade the other, so let's just let it drop.  You can try to convince other people to your side as I will to mine, but sniping at each other is a waste of time.