House to vote Thursday on ObamaCare repeal...[updated...House Passes]

[XenaLee]

So you're going to act like a child too?   Earth to corbe -  full repeal was never in the cards.  You cannot forge a majority by whining about what "you expect".   Politics is the art of the possible.  The House bill is shot through with conservative priorities.   

If that's the best ya got re: insults, you're gonna have to turn in your "ImaLoyalLeftist" (not be be confused with CPUSA Lifetime Member) card and hand over your secret Hillry decoder ring.   You're out!

Earth to 'whatever'head:  Full repeal is exactly ONLY what was promised.  The GOP should just let ObamaCare fall and fail and collapse of it's own inevitable accord..... rather than try to "fix it" and put their label on it and thus take the entire blame for its failure down the line.   To do what they are doing isn't just stupid, it's insanity.  Either that or it's deliberate sabotage of the party to help the Democrats.  I'm starting to wonder now....

[libertybele]

No, you're not getting it.  Full repeal, that is.

But conservatives get a lot in this bill.

Conservatives got a lot in this bill??  Not even close. By the way hold on to that thought while the RINO's work on it in the Senate.

[XenaLee]

  @Jazzhead So Trump was lying all those months at EVERY Rally when he said:



   PS: The bill was already written.

The burning question is..... why the hell didn't the GOP put the defund/repeal Obamacare bills they had presented Obama with, which he vetoed, on Trump's desk to sign?   I think we know the answer to that rhetorical question though.... by now.

[txradioguy]

I'm not a Trumpster either, but I'd rather be a Trumpster than an idiot.

Wait...there's a difference?

[txradioguy]

Of course there are conservative solutions...BUT at this point in time they can't be passed in the congress.

The Conservative solution was already passed by Congress. Just dust it off...put it on Trumps desk and let him sign it.

[XenaLee]

The Conservative solution was already passed by Congress. Just dust it off...put it on Trumps desk and let him sign it.

It's amazing what the RINOs in Congress can or will pass if/when they know the president will veto it, eh?   If this thing goes down like I think it's about to go down (literally)....

I will never vote for a GOPer again.  It will be Constitution Party all the way.  Gotta start somewhere, some time.  And the Republican Party will no longer deserve (or get) my vote on ANY thing.

[Jazzhead]

I will never vote for a GOPer again.  It will be Constitution Party all the way.  Gotta start somewhere, some time.  And the Republican Party will no longer deserve (or get) my vote on ANY thing.

Suit yourself, <>.   A lot of GOP Congressmen stuck their necks out for this bill, and in the end summoned the courage to start the ball rolling to fix the ACA.   

Enough of the name calling.
- MOD2

[Mesaclone]

Voting for the Constitution party will get you exactly what you'd get by holding out for "full repeal". Absolutely nothing.

It seems the "conservative" view many here are taking is "we will only vote for 100% perfect, fully conservative pieces of legislation and we will not compromise one iota on anything...we will get all, or we will march in righteous glory while munching on a giant nothing burger".

In a Republic, where genuine conservatives make up...perhaps...30% of the House and Senate...that's not a strategy or even a principled stand. Its simply a surrender to the Left, as "conservatives" will literally get zero legislation passed, whilst the Left...willing to tactically compromise with the moderates (yes, GOP moderates included)....will gradually move forward its legislative agenda until they quite literally "win" on every issue that matters to all of us here on this board.

So screaming, I was promised full repeal, when the President and conservatives in congress have nowhere near the votes to attain that...is childish. Its a tantrum, or a selfish "I'll take my ball and go home" threat. It achieves nothing, but fills some need to act out and proclaim ones self as "principled". For god's sakes, people, if we don't have the votes...what the hell is the President and the Speaker supposed to do? No amount of whipping, nor Presidential bully pulpiting can create the votes needed for such a solution...so what is it you would charge these men with achieving? They don't have magic wands and they can't miracle their way to getting votes. They have one option, compromise and attain every bit of conservative ideals into the legislation that is possible...and push the ball a little to the right.

The rest of us, those who support President Trump and those who are simply pragmatic in their conservatism...and who actually took enough civics classes to understand how a Republic works....continue working, scrapping, fighting and clawing to advance conservative agenda items and ideas into actual legislation against a whirlwind of liberal media, foolish liberal voters and congressmen, and the sprinkling of NT'rs who are happy to see the Left succeed as long as it means our Republican President Trump loses.

Most of us don't get to sit on our high horse or ride home with our ball...we have to stand and schlog it out with the Left, whilst our holier-than-thou "purist" conservatives ditch the battlefield while patting themselves on the back for being too principled to operate in a democracy/Republic in which they can't have everything they want legislatively.

[XenaLee]

Voting for the Constitution party will get you exactly what you'd get by holding out for "full repeal". Absolutely nothing.

It seems the "conservative" view many here are taking is "we will only vote for 100% perfect, fully conservative pieces of legislation and we will not compromise one iota on anything...we will get all, or we will march in righteous glory while munching on a giant nothing burger".

In a Republic, where genuine conservatives make up...perhaps...30% of the House and Senate...that's not a strategy or even a principled stand. Its simply a surrender to the Left, as "conservatives" will literally get zero legislation passed, whilst the Left...willing to tactically compromise with the moderates (yes, GOP moderates included)....will gradually move forward its legislative agenda until they quite literally "win" on every issue that matters to all of us here on this board.

So screaming, I was promised full repeal, when the President and conservatives in congress have nowhere near the votes to attain that...is childish. Its a tantrum, or a selfish "I'll take my ball and go home" threat. It achieves nothing, but fills some need to act out and proclaim ones self as "principled". For god's sakes, people, if we don't have the votes...what the hell is the President and the Speaker supposed to do? No amount of whipping, nor Presidential bully pulpiting can create the votes needed for such a solution...so what is it you would charge these men with achieving? They don't have magic wands and they can't miracle their way to getting votes. They have one option, compromise and attain every bit of conservative ideals into the legislation that is possible...and push the ball a little to the right.

The rest of us, those who support President Trump and those who are simply pragmatic in their conservatism...and who actually took enough civics classes to understand how a Republic works....continue working, scrapping, fighting and clawing to advance conservative agenda items and ideas into actual legislation against a whirlwind of liberal media, foolish liberal voters and congressmen, and the sprinkling of NT'rs who are happy to see the Left succeed as long as it means our Republican President Trump loses.

Most of us don't get to sit on our high horse or ride home with our ball...we have to stand and schlog it out with the Left, whilst our holier-than-thou "purist" conservatives ditch the battlefield while patting themselves on the back for being too principled to operate in a democracy/Republic in which they can't have everything they want legislatively.

Was it only 30% of the House and Senate that promised a full repeal of Obamacare?  Hell no.  It was most of the aholes that made that promise (in order to get re-elected into majority control).  And I seem to recall the president making the very same promise. 

So we've already established that the GOP and the president LIED.  I don't make it a practice to reward bad behavior (lying) by voting for the same liars again and again.  And guess what?  I'm not the only voter that will not be voting GOP again after yet another betrayal.  Suck on that reality.

[txradioguy]

It's amazing what the RINOs in Congress can or will pass if/when they know the president will veto it, eh?   If this thing goes down like I think it's about to go down (literally)....

I will never vote for a GOPer again.  It will be Constitution Party all the way.  Gotta start somewhere, some time.  And the Republican Party will no longer deserve (or get) my vote on ANY thing.

@XenaLee IMHO the Constitution Party could be the new home for the Conservative base of the GOP now that the party seems intent on driving them off in favor of left leaning populism.

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee IMHO the Constitution Party could be the new home for the Conservative base of the GOP now that the party seems intent on driving them off in favor of left leaning populism.

I agree.  And again, you have to start somewhere. 

I suspect that if the GOP continues to betray the voters (once again and still) that gave them control of all three branches last November, in hopes of them fixing the issues they promised to fix, then the GOP won't have a prayer of winning the next few elections.  All probably as laid out and planned by the Uniparty establishment RINOs.   It's sabotage 'from within', IMO.

[jmyrlefuller]

I don't make it a practice to reward bad behavior (lying) by voting for the same liars again and again

So you're going to vote for a political party invented by Howard Phillips so he could run for the same office again and again. How ironic.

[XenaLee]

So you're going to vote for a political party invented by Howard Phillips so he could run for the same office again and again. How ironic.

No.... I'll vote for the conservative solution.... which is anti-big-government.  You?

[Mesaclone]

I agree.  And again, you have to start somewhere. 

I suspect that if the GOP continues to betray the voters (once again and still) that gave them control of all three branches last November, in hopes of them fixing the issues they promised to fix, then the GOP won't have a prayer of winning the next few elections.  All probably as laid out and planned by the Uniparty establishment RINOs.   It's sabotage 'from within', IMO.

Other than making you feel good, what does moving to the Constitution party achieve?

It won't, but lets say your dream comes to fruition and the Consitution party starts attracting...say...half of the votes that otherwise go to Republicans. We will then be left with a Dem party getting around 50% of the vote, the GOP with 25% and the Constitution party getting 25%. Who wins in that scenario? Let me help, this answer is not conservative voters.

So, if you are seeking a permanent Democrat party led congress, Presidency and Supreme Court...your plan to move conservatives to the Constitution Party is a very good one.  If you are striving for liberalism to rule supreme over every aspect of our lives, you will be triumphant.

Smart plan. This is the perfect example of...just because you CAN do something, it doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. Its very concerning...this self-destructive urge that prevails amongst at least some on the right...an absurd desire to cede power to the Left as long as they can wallow in their own feelings of righteousness.

BTW, you were promised....as is the nature of any political promise...that those elected would fight to attain full repeal and replace of Obamacare. And they have done so. It was not attainable, and so these leaders got as much as was humanly possible in terms of moving the ball to the Right. Scream and yell and declare a purity test all you want, the President can only do that which is possible...demanding he do the impossible, it just idiotic.

[corbe]

Other than making you feel good, what does moving to the Constitution party achieve?

It won't, but lets say your dream comes to fruition and the Consitution party starts attracting...say...half of the votes that otherwise go to Republicans. We will then be left with a Dem party getting around 50% of the vote, the GOP with 25% and the Constitution party getting 25%. Who wins in that scenario? Let me help, this answer is not conservative voters.

So, if you are seeking a permanent Democrat party led congress, Presidency and Supreme Court...your plan to move conservatives to the Constitution Party is a very good one.  If you are striving for liberalism to rule supreme over every aspect of our lives, you will be triumphant.

Smart plan.

   As opposed to your plan @Mesaclone which is the definition of Insanity, doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results, We're fed up, and looking for viable solutions not the same ol same ol.

[Mesaclone]

   As opposed to your plan @Mesaclone which is the definition of Insanity, doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results, We're fed up, and looking for viable solutions not the same ol same ol.

You're just throwing out a cliche'd phrase.

We have not repealed major parts of an entitlement program before, so we're not doing the same thing over and over. So your little phrase doesn't apply at all. Further, its been a very long time since we've held both houses of congress and the White House...so again...the cliche is meaningless. Finally, President Trump is clearly unlike any other presidents we've had in recent times, so once more...the cliche is empty words. In other words, this is not "enduring the same situation and taking the same action while hoping for new results"...it is an almost entirely unique situation in which we are striving to attain uniquely results while moving the country back to the right. Nor is this some situation in which conservative promises were made and once again the party is backtracking and betraying them...it is, in actuality, a situation in which GOP leaders are working to attain the most conservative legislation..in almost every case...possible.

I realize you're going to claim that what is being done over and over...is actually some vague idea you have of "surrendering conservative ideals" or not getting 100% pure conservative legislation in every single case...but that's just the kind of silly declarations I'm talking about. Having a majority in congress does not mean you can ignore the moderates in your own party, much left all the votes the other party brings to every piece of legislation...those realities remain ALWAYS in place, and conservatives cannot wish them away.

[Jazzhead]

    We're fed up, and looking for viable solutions not the same ol same ol.

Viable solutions?  Holding out for full repeal accomplishes nothing.   Whining about joining the Constitution Party accomplishes nothing.

Face reality - the voters didn't vote for conservatives in 2016, they voted for Republicans.   The GOP is a coalition of the center-right, with some libertarians thrown in for good measure.   The AHCA is the product of a center-right coalition - basically, the most conservative bill that centrists can accept.    And it's plenty conservative - no more mandates,  billions in repealed taxes,  block grants in place of open-ended entitlements,  and a return to state control over insurance markets.   That it preserves some of ObamaCare's more popular features doesn't represent a betrayal of principle, it represents incremental progress in the right direction.   It represents governance in a constitutional republic.   

[XenaLee]

Other than making you feel good, what does moving to the Constitution party achieve?

It won't, but lets say your dream comes to fruition and the Consitution party starts attracting...say...half of the votes that otherwise go to Republicans. We will then be left with a Dem party getting around 50% of the vote, the GOP with 25% and the Constitution party getting 25%. Who wins in that scenario? Let me help, this answer is not conservative voters.

So, if you are seeking a permanent Democrat party led congress, Presidency and Supreme Court...your plan to move conservatives to the Constitution Party is a very good one.  If you are striving for liberalism to rule supreme over every aspect of our lives, you will be triumphant.

Smart plan. This is the perfect example of...just because you CAN do something, it doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. Its very concerning...this self-destructive urge that prevails amongst at least some on the right...an absurd desire to cede power to the Left as long as they can wallow in their own feelings of righteousness.

BTW, you were promised....as is the nature of any political promise...that those elected would fight to attain full repeal and replace of Obamacare. And they have done so. It was not attainable, and so these leaders got as much as was humanly possible in terms of moving the ball to the Right. Scream and yell and declare a purity test all you want, the President can only do that which is possible...demanding he do the impossible, it just idiotic.

Well, I'm quite sure the leftists in the GOP (RINOs) will thank you and others like you that continue to vote for them and their BS/lies, despite their piss-poor performance and their obvious deceit (promise them anything to get elected).   

The moral of the story and, of course, the solution to the problem is.... don't make promises you have no intention of fulfilling.  I don't care who or what you are.... politician or private citizen.

Continuing to vote for the current GOP, as it stands now, will equate to voting FOR more big-government socialism.   Feel free to do that (your choice) if you want.  But for me.... not just no, but HELL no.

[Emjay]

So you're going to vote for a political party invented by Howard Phillips so he could run for the same office again and again. How ironic.

The next day and I get up to see the same people saying the same thing only louder and with more vitriol. 

And all these third party threats on the part of the disappointed mental children here.  The only viable chance a third party had here was when DB H. Ross Perot gave us William Clinton.

So much anger ... so little sense. 

[Sanguine]

Doing the right thing is seldom popular - or painless.

[r9etb]

Viable solutions?  Holding out for full repeal accomplishes nothing.   Whining about joining the Constitution Party accomplishes nothing.

Face reality - the voters didn't vote for conservatives in 2016, they voted for Republicans.   The GOP is a coalition of the center-right, with some libertarians thrown in for good measure.   The AHCA is the product of a center-right coalition - basically, the most conservative bill that centrists can accept.    And it's plenty conservative - no more mandates,  billions in repealed taxes,  block grants in place of open-ended entitlements,  and a return to state control over insurance markets.   That it preserves some of ObamaCare's more popular features doesn't represent a betrayal of principle, it represents incremental progress in the right direction.   It represents governance in a constitutional republic.

Not a bad summary. 

I guess the general complaint isn't so much about political reality, as it is the difference between actual political reality, and what some folks want political reality to be.

The thing is, if the political reality isn't what you want it to be, there are a couple of alternatives.  First, accept the current political reality; Second, put in the effort to change the political reality. 

Apparently the first option isn't acceptable.  So it's up to those who don't like it, to change things (which means, do something more than shout about it on sites like TBR).

As regards this, Krauthammer (on another thread) pointed out that peoples' expectations about medical care have changed in the past 7 years.  The task of changing political reality has to start there.  What does it take to change people's expectations in a "better" direction?

[Emjay]

Not a bad summary. 

I guess the general complaint isn't so much about political reality, as it is the difference between actual political reality, and what some folks want political reality to be.

The thing is, if the political reality isn't what you want it to be, there are a couple of alternatives.  First, accept the current political reality; Second, put in the effort to change the political reality. 

Apparently the first option isn't acceptable.  So it's up to those who don't like it, to change things (which means, do something more than shout about it on sites like TBR).

As regards this, Krauthammer (on another thread) pointed out that peoples' expectations about medical care have changed in the past 7 years.  The task of changing political reality has to start there.  What does it take to change people's expectations in a "better" direction?

It's gonna take patience and maturity.  We have something to build on.  We know the country wanted to get away from liberalism to the extent of electing Trump which most people did not believe would/could happen.

Right now, the old guard are hanging in Congress and they have to die or be defeated ... either one works.  We have some shining lights in Congress and the Senate ... Ted Cruz for example.

Cruz will work hard on the Senate's version of the health care bill.  He needs our support.

I don't see much patience and maturity here and it's painful to watch the display of tantrums.

[r9etb]

It's gonna take patience and maturity.  We have something to build on.  We know the country wanted to get away from liberalism to the extent of electing Trump which most people did not believe would/could happen.

The thing is, I'm not sure the country actually "wanted to get away from liberalism," in the sense that they could have told you precisely what they wanted to get away from and why.  To those who voted for him, I think Trump represented nothing more or less than a change from a status quo that a lot of people have gotten really tired of dealing with.  In essence, Trump was a "vote against," probably thousands of different things.

The Democrats can win if they can successfully transfer that "vote against" mentality to the Republicans, using Trump as their stalking horse. 

The task on our side is to figure out how to offer people a set of ideas and policies that they can vote for.  The biggest part of that effort is education, which is a pretty big challenge, both in terms of finding an effective forum for it, and in finding calm, rational, and convincing people to do the work of education.\

[Emjay]

The thing is, I'm not sure the country actually "wanted to get away from liberalism," in the sense that they could have told you precisely what they wanted to get away from and why.  To those who voted for him, I think Trump represented nothing more or less than a change from a status quo that a lot of people have gotten really tired of dealing with.  In essence, Trump was a "vote against," probably thousands of different things.

The Democrats can win if they can successfully transfer that "vote against" mentality to the Republicans, using Trump as their stalking horse. 

The task on our side is to figure out how to offer people a set of ideas and policies that they can vote for.  The biggest part of that effort is education, which is a pretty big challenge, both in terms of finding an effective forum for it, and in finding calm, rational, and convincing people to do the work of education.\

That 'vote against' mentality was on sorry display here... as so many people here echoed the very things the democrats were saying about the healthcare bill.

There are some really smart people in the conservative movement.  I was watching Ted Cruz question Comey and explaining how lame Comey's argument was ... the argument that Hillary had to 'know' she was doing something wrong for it to be a crime.  Ted had all the relevant law at his command.  It was awe-inspiring and made me wish .... for the hundredth time... that we had been smart enough to elect him.

That being said, I think there are a bunch of dumb, entrenched congress critters who resent his brilliance instead of admiring it.

[txradioguy]

So much anger ... so little sense.

You've been a great role model.