Author Topic: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth  (Read 13686 times)

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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #175 on: May 02, 2017, 03:18:40 pm »
Yet, after millennia of such scrutiny survived by the traditional interpretation of biblical texts, about 100 years ago man decided to reinterpret The Bible in a way that it had never before been interpreted.

Biblical literalism (and its proponents) is just one of the many heresies elevated by men since the birth of Pauline Christianity.

When one chooses to labor over the words in the Scriptures, one tends to lose sight of the meanings of the lessons.

Biblical literalism one/or inerrancy are unsustainable positions to take due to the many inconsistencies and contradictions found in the book.
I know we don't have a religion forum so I don't want to take this too far in that direction, but it's not as if the Bible doesn't tell us many many times to pay attention to the words.
John 14:23-24 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me."
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #176 on: May 02, 2017, 10:41:44 pm »
Not to be a pain, folks, but did the first amoeba ever die?

Yes.

Just recently.

November 25th, 2016 to be exact.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #177 on: May 02, 2017, 10:50:42 pm »
Yes.

Just recently.

November 25th, 2016 to be exact.
Did you see the body? Are you sure it didn't just split?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #178 on: May 02, 2017, 11:33:25 pm »
Did you see the body? Are you sure it didn't just split?

That was the banana.



Headed for the coast.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #179 on: May 03, 2017, 04:15:25 am »
That was the banana.



Headed for the coast.
Peeled out and left?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #180 on: May 03, 2017, 02:33:39 pm »
Peeled out and left?

Ahead of the BLM lynch mob.......

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #181 on: May 03, 2017, 03:15:01 pm »
NONSENSE. Strict literalism is the norm.

As someone once famously said, you are certainly entitled to your own opinions, but to your own facts;

Biblical literalism is supported by @28% of Christians. Far from the norm.

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Your statement is diametrically opposed to what the Bible says. I can haul out at least twenty more where that came from. We are to study in order to rightly divide the Word. Oddly enough, I can't think of a single verse that says 'Don't spend too much time thinking about this stuff'... Go figger.

The Christian Bible (New Testament) has always been thought of as a collection of divinely inspired (not dictated) texts and/or scriptures. During the oral tradition period Jews told stories about God and God's relationship with people for centuries before anything was written down in what eventually became the Old Testament and while names and messages may have remained intact, details probably did not.

The concept of sola scriptura is a man-made construct of the Protestant Reformulation which decentralized the Christ as the central figure in Christianity, replacing it with The Bible as the center of the belief system; there is no place in the Bible that establishes the concept of sola scriptura. Protestants can only try to defend the concept by interpreting and deciphering texts in the Bible to support their argument, but that alone defeats the sola scriptura/literalism heresy. If the Bible is to be taken literally, then the Bible must clearly say that it must be taken literally without need for interpretation.

You will of course be able to quote several passages in the Bible from which you will ask that a conclusion be reached which supports sola scriptura but the moment that you ask that a conclusion be reached or that a passage be interpreted in a way that reaches your predisposed conclusion, you've just proven the fatal flaw of literalism.   

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There are not contradictions. The Hebrews will tell you - What seems to be a contradiction is a reason to dig deeper. You'll always find a truth... And that is true.

There are contradictions, and what you've suggested that should be done about them destroys the concept of literalism.

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But you are welcome to school me. I have looong been subjected to the lists from websites that will fuel your posts.

"Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." - Proverbs 16:18

I use no websites, and need no fuel.

"Therefore speak I to them in parables." - Matthew 13:13
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 03:19:46 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #182 on: May 03, 2017, 07:07:32 pm »
As someone once famously said, you are certainly entitled to your own opinions, but to your own facts;

Biblical literalism is supported by @28% of Christians. Far from the norm.

And your premise is that 'might makes right'? Always a poor defense. However, I will agree by way of a tangent - I can easily agree that 70% of the church has become worldly.

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The Christian Bible (New Testament) has always been thought of as a collection of divinely inspired (not dictated) texts and/or scriptures.

Study the heptadic structures encrypted into the NT, and you'll have a good idea just how inspired they are. No man wrote that. A man may have been pushing the pencil around, but those constructs plainly show whose content is being written down.

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During the oral tradition period Jews told stories about God and God's relationship with people for centuries before anything was written down in what eventually became the Old Testament and while names and messages may have remained intact, details probably did not.

Standard academic propaganda. The Jews know dang well that Moses WROTE Torah down, just as the Scriptures say. It is the 'Wisdom of the Elders', the Jewish tradition, that supposedly comes word-of-mouth... The very tradition that Yeshua pointedly discounted as a prominent part of his ministry.

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The concept of sola scriptura is a man-made construct of the Protestant Reformulation which decentralized the Christ as the central figure in Christianity, replacing it with The Bible as the center of the belief system;

Entirely incorrect.

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there is no place in the Bible that establishes the concept of sola scriptura. Protestants can only try to defend the concept by interpreting and deciphering texts in the Bible to support their argument, but that alone defeats the sola scriptura/literalism heresy. If the Bible is to be taken literally, then the Bible must clearly say that it must be taken literally without need for interpretation.

The entire structure of the Bible demands literalism.
Torah requires precise and literal exactitude, without which it's very structure collapses. If YHWH didn't mean every word of it, if we are free to pick and choose, then the law is nothing, and we have no need of a savior - The whole thing is rendered moot.

The prophets likewise require literal exactitude - Again, if we are free to twist the prophets, then there is no value in their foretelling, and the primary proof that YHWH is GOD, which has been left to all generations, is struck down.

Yeshua requires literal precision as we are to keep his words, and that necessarily underwrites the literal precision of Torah and the Prophets. You will not understand Yeshua without a literal knowledge of Torah. The savior requires the law, and the law requires the savior. With incremental precision, or both are made null.

The entirety of the Book is a series of interlocking, interwoven contracts. Literally every page. What legal document is not taken on it's face? What governance allows allegory into contractual law?

And underneath it all, interwoven throughout, is an undercurrent of prophecy that is the signature and imprimatur of YHWH.

One cannot even begin to understand the fulfillment found in Yeshua without first understanding the prophecy contained in Torah - In the Jubilee, in the Feasts, in the prophetic construct of the Temple and the Tabernacle (two different lessons), and etc. The very law in Leviticus and Deuteronomy is prophetic in every word. Amazing.

Likewise the narrative. If one misses the prophetic content in the patriarchal inheritance, one will miss the function of a full third of the prophecy itself. If one is unaware of the prophetic inheritance of Ephraim, as an example, one will never understand the mechanisms within the NT wrt the prodigal son, and the 'fullness of the Gentiles'.

These are but meager examples. For one to fully propound upon the intricacies and complex interactions contained within the Book, it would take a lifetime (in my case, it certainly has). 

To suggest anything but sola-scriptura in the face of those intricacies is nothing short of ludicrous.
That isn't to say there is no interpretation, as it declares itself (rightly dividing). But that interpretation is best found in a literal take. To do otherwise, I have always found, abuses something elsewhere in the text. That's the very beauty of it. One cannot take any of it without taking all of it. By the letter. Such an amazing construction. It is simply a marvel.

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You will of course be able to quote several passages in the Bible from which you will ask that a conclusion be reached which supports sola scriptura but the moment that you ask that a conclusion be reached or that a passage be interpreted in a way that reaches your predisposed conclusion, you've just proven the fatal flaw of literalism.   

I think I have already properly answered this bit above, with the exception that, if one thinks my conclusions were predisposed, one would be left wondering at the road I have taken from staunch Reformed to Messianic Christianity. My path could not be considered 'predisposed' in the least. In fact, quite the other way around. Anything but predisposed.

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There are contradictions, and what you've suggested that should be done about them destroys the concept of literalism.

Not at all. I will take one common misconception as an example: 'He will be called a Nazerene' is a commonly cited 'contradiction' - Critics will tell you that no such prophecy exists. But it does. a simple abuse of the Hebrew hides it, and an ignorance of husbandry where olive trees are concerned obfuscates it, But it's there, and in a profoundly literal and extraordinary sense.

Proverbs 25:2 “It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.” (KJV)

Such wonderful fruit is to be found with the meat of the thing. How anyone an be satisfied by the milk is entirely beyond me.

But, I have stretched the standards of the forum far enough - I ascertain that you and I have embarked upon an interfaith argument which is frowned upon here. I will welcome you to continue by pm, and list your contradictions, which I will take the time to answer, each by each, as I have done so many times before... Who knows, you might just give me something novel to chew upon.

Would that I could answer right here in front of everyone - I can, and do desire to - But unless given license directly by admin, I think we have ventured too far.

Good day.


Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #183 on: May 04, 2017, 12:59:50 pm »
Time crystals: A new state of matter that outlasts the universe - Science/Technology - TBR

Interesting article cross-referenced due to "bending the cast-iron laws of thermodynamics".
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #184 on: May 04, 2017, 10:37:40 pm »
Would a Biblical literalist please explain John 4:14 without using textual interpretation please.

Straight up.
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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #185 on: May 05, 2017, 03:03:52 am »
Time crystals: A new state of matter that outlasts the universe - Science/Technology - TBR

Interesting article cross-referenced due to "bending the cast-iron laws of thermodynamics".


Except that they don't violate the laws of thermodynamics. 

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #186 on: May 05, 2017, 09:24:03 am »
Would a Biblical literalist please explain John 4:14 without using textual interpretation please.

Straight up.

@Luis Gonzalez

From Bible Gateway * By this living water is meant the Spirit. Under this comparison the blessing of the Messiah had been promised in the Old Testament. The graces of the Spirit, and his comforts, satisfy the thirsting soul, that knows its own nature and necessity. What Jesus spake figuratively, she took literally. Christ shows that the water of Jacob's well yielded a very short satisfaction. Of whatever waters of comfort we drink, we shall thirst again. But whoever partakes of the Spirit of grace, and the comforts of the gospel, shall never want that which will abundantly satisfy his soul.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #187 on: May 05, 2017, 02:08:16 pm »
@Luis Gonzalez

From Bible Gateway * By this living water is meant the Spirit. Under this comparison the blessing of the Messiah had been promised in the Old Testament. The graces of the Spirit, and his comforts, satisfy the thirsting soul, that knows its own nature and necessity. What Jesus spake figuratively, she took literally. Christ shows that the water of Jacob's well yielded a very short satisfaction. Of whatever waters of comfort we drink, we shall thirst again. But whoever partakes of the Spirit of grace, and the comforts of the gospel, shall never want that which will abundantly satisfy his soul.

IOW, don't take it literally.
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Offline thackney

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Re: Radiocarbon Dating Can't Prove an Old Earth
« Reply #188 on: May 05, 2017, 02:34:48 pm »
Would a Biblical literalist please explain John 4:14 without using textual interpretation please.

Straight up.

To select a single verse out a longer story, and exclude the follow up is to be intentionally deceiving.  The woman tried to take it literally in the following verse and the explanation followed.  Why try to exclude that?
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