North Korea fires missile as US official says 'clock has now run out' on Pyongyang

[ABX]

North Korea fired an apparent ballistic missile into the Sea of Japan, South Korea's military said early Wednesday.

The launch came hours after U.S. President Donald Trump described North Korea's pursuit of a nuclear arsenal as a "humanity problem" and a senior U.S. official told reporters that the "clock has now run out" on Pyongyang....

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/04/04/north-korea-fires-missile-as-us-official-says-clock-has-now-run-out-on-pyongyang.html

[TomSea]

It's serious and grave, some folks may dismiss this and I'm not saying dire action is required but it certainly is baffling trying to determine what options we have which don't sound like many.

[r9etb]

It's serious and grave, some folks may dismiss this and I'm not saying dire action is required but it certainly is baffling trying to determine what options we have which don't sound like many.

One good way would be to mess with li'l Kim's head.  Not these meaningless "clock has run out" sorts of statements -- that just strengthens Kim's hand.  Nah -- really mess with his head.  Feed his paranoia about his own people.  Make him so crazy that his own Praetorian Guard finally take him out.

[TomSea]

One good way would be to mess with li'l Kim's head.  Not these meaningless "clock has run out" sorts of statements -- that just strengthens Kim's hand.  Nah -- really mess with his head.  Feed his paranoia about his own people.  Make him so crazy that his own Praetorian Guard finally take him out.

He's executed many close to him including his own half-brother. Good luck with your advice.

[r9etb]

He's executed many close to him including his own half-brother. Good luck with your advice.

Well, yeah, that's kinda the point.  The more unstable he gets, the more unstable we can make him, the more likely somebody takes him out. 

[DB]

Stealth drone strike directly on him when the opportunity presents itself. No acknowledgement of who did it. Just sudden death - period.

[EC]

What happens when you kill a god? Rarely anything good. Ask the Chinese - or the Victorians, for that matter.

[TomSea]

What happens when you kill a god? Rarely anything good. Ask the Chinese - or the Victorians, for that matter.

Or ask the Romans or ask the Greeks; interesting question.

[EC]

I was always "Yeah, right" when people would say the Kims were considered gods in NK.

Then I read The Accusation; Forbidden Stories from Inside North Korea by Bandi - it changed my mind. Worth grabbing the translation for anyone who's at all interested. The story telling is a bit different from what we're used to, but still interesting and compelling.

[mountaineer]

Then I read The Accusation; Forbidden Stories from Inside North Korea by Bandi - it changed my mind. Worth grabbing the translation for anyone who's at all interested. The story telling is a bit different from what we're used to, but still interesting and compelling.

I haven't read that one, but have read other accounts and seen some of the clandestine video recordings. We can't even begin to imagine the indoctrination of North Koreans and their worship of Li'l Kim. So very sad.

[EC]

I've seen similar, but never on a country wide scale. It would be impressive if it wasn't so damned depressing and frightening.

[Cripplecreek]

What happens when you kill a god? Rarely anything good. Ask the Chinese - or the Victorians, for that matter.

We would not be welcomed as liberators. Sure there are some who would love to see us but they are unlikely to show it openly. There isn't a nation on the planet more fully indoctrinated than NK.

Several years ago I saw a documentary on NK. There was a Chinese soldier with his face blurred and he broke down and cried telling the story of handing illegal aliens from NK back over to them  at the border. He said that the Norks made the prisoners hold their hands together like they were praying then they drove a steel hook through their hands which was then attached to a chain. It was brutality for effect.

[Restored]

I don't know that the worship is genuine. Defectors frequently mention that the Kims are believed to be gods but the defectors themselves don't necessarily believe it. And there are plenty of people wanting to get out of NK. They don't leave because they know their entire family will be sent to the gulag. If it was true worship, they would never leave.

People are frightened of the government. They know its ruthlessness. If war breaks out and the Norks come over the border, the invasion will end at the first Walmart. That's how far from reality they live.

[EC]

I don't know that the worship is genuine. Defectors frequently mention that the Kims are believed to be gods but the defectors themselves don't necessarily believe it. And there are plenty of people wanting to get out of NK. They don't leave because they know their entire family will be sent to the gulag. If it was true worship, they would never leave.

People are frightened of the government. They know its ruthlessness. If war breaks out and the Norks come over the border, the invasion will end at the first Walmart. That's how far from reality they live.

Read Bandi. He's not a defector - yet. His work was smuggled out, he still lives and works in the regime.

[TomSea]

The movie "The game of their lives" by that North Korean team that did so well in the 1966 World Cup shows the players, now as older men, really lavishing praise on the Kim family, even becoming teary eyed. It's probably too long of a movie for people to watch, it's a documentary and still telling. It is said, some other players may not have fared as well.  One still hears about defectors from NK amongst athletes.

Here is a short clip of it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQvHG0vTzJI

[TomSea]

As some folks say, look at NK per satellite photos at night.


Per NPR: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/03/16/148680705/why-are-some-countries-rich-and-others-poor

I've seen some photos of the Pyongyang skyline recently. I have no idea what it would be like.

Pyongyang at night.


Seoul is huge, 10 million plus listed.

[Restored]

Not showing emotion is a good way to end up in a labor camp. When you visit North Korea, you must take flowers and bow before the statue of the Kims. It is required.
So worship is forced.
South Korean movies are starting to make it into North Korea. That can't be good for the regime. Norks believe the rest of the world has it worse than them. If they knew the truth, they would revolt.

[Cripplecreek]

Norks believe the rest of the world has it worse than them.

Well I have no grass or children to eat so I guess by norkie standards I have it pretty rough.

[r9etb]

What happens when you kill a god? Rarely anything good. Ask the Chinese - or the Victorians, for that matter.

Behold a god who bleeds!

[mountaineer]

I don't know that the worship is genuine. Defectors frequently mention that the Kims are believed to be gods but the defectors themselves don't necessarily believe it. And there are plenty of people wanting to get out of NK. They don't leave because they know their entire family will be sent to the gulag. If it was true worship, they would never leave.

People are frightened of the government. They know its ruthlessness. If war breaks out and the Norks come over the border, the invasion will end at the first Walmart. That's how far from reality they live.

Coincidentally, I saw some of a Frontline episode on PBS last night and thought of the conversation we've been having on this thread. The documentary showed NK people illegally engaging in commerce and smuggling in computers and DVDs. They also spoke to several defectors now living in South Korea, who broadcast to those North Koreans who have managed to get radios (or modify radios) to pick up foreign broadcasts. It was fascinating.