Author Topic: Las Vegas shooter had been losing money for two years and 'was going in the wrong direction,' sheriff says  (Read 1185 times)

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Offline Applewood

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Las Vegas shooter had been losing money for two years and 'was going in the wrong direction,' sheriff says

The man who shot hundreds and killed 58 at the Route 91 Harvest music festival a month ago was a narcissist who may have seen his image as a high-rolling gambler declining, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said as the investigation into the Oct. 1 shooting rampage entered its second month.

“He was going through some bouts of depression. But he was status-driven,” Lombardo said in a wide-ranging interview with 8 News Now in Las Vegas that offered the first hints of what might have driven 64-year-old Stephen Paddock to open fire from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel.

Paddock had been losing money for two years, Lombardo said, and had been showing signs of depression.

“Since September 2015, he's lost a significant amount of wealth, and I think that might have been a determining factor on what he was determined to do,” Lombardo said in his Wednesday night interview.

...

Excerpt -- more at:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-sheriff-20171102-story.html

« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 03:45:18 am by Applewood »

Offline Frank Cannon

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Paddock had been losing money for two years,

What a revelation. A degenerate gambler without a job went broke.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Paddock had been losing money for two years,

What a revelation. A degenerate gambler without a job went broke.
Not so broke he couldn't wire $100,000 to the PI!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Applewood

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Not so broke he couldn't wire $100,000 to the PI!

Do we know for sure Paddock did wire money to the Philippines?  These days, I've become confused as to what is or isn't true in this muddled investigation.

But if true -- I've known some people who were broke -- or claimed to be -- who then would make some huge expenditure.  A friend of mine always cries poverty, but then she will go out and buy some useless piece of junk for a lot of money.  I sometimes think she wants to get rid of every dollar she has -- so the gubmint can take care of her.  Yes, she's a liberal.

And the article says that Paddock was obsessed with maintaining the persona of a wealthy guy.  So to do so, he may have thought he had to send the money to keep up appearances.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Do we know for sure Paddock did wire money to the Philippines?  These days, I've become confused as to what is or isn't true in this muddled investigation.

But if true -- I've known some people who were broke -- or claimed to be -- who then would make some huge expenditure.  A friend of mine always cries poverty, but then she will go out and buy some useless piece of junk for a lot of money.  I sometimes think she wants to get rid of every dollar she has -- so the gubmint can take care of her.  Yes, she's a liberal.

And the article says that Paddock was obsessed with maintaining the persona of a wealthy guy.  So to do so, he may have thought he had to send the money to keep up appearances.
IIRC, early on he was alleged to have millions in accounts all over. One thing is certain, the story is increasingly muddled. I have known guys who lost fortunes, and they didn't go shooting people up, if anything, they just went to ground and made/married into* another pile of money.
(*yep, that does happen, I just never did.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Suppressed

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It doesn't say he was broke. It says he was losing money.  Big difference.
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Offline Applewood

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@Smokin Joe

Remember though that Paddock is alleged to have been off his rocker.  Irrational people don't think rationally.  He may have become angry, blamed the  casinos, blamed the musicians and the audience at the concert, blamed everyone but himself for his reversal of fortune.  Who knows what might have been going through his mind when he planned and executed this  mass murder?

Paddock called himself a professional gambler.  I think he was a gambling addict.  He was reputed to have spent hours at video poker machines. Those machines, like the slots, are rigged in favor of the house.  I don't believe a professional gambler would spend so much time at machines.  If he was addicted, maybe he just couldn't stop himself and this inability to stop gambling morphed into something more deadly.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 10:01:08 am by Applewood »

Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

Remember though that Paddock is alleged to have been off his rocker.  Irrational people don't think rationally.  He may have become angry, blamed the  casinos, blamed the musicians and the audience at the concert, blamed everyone but himself for his reversal of fortune.  Who knows what might have been going through his mind when he planned and executed this  mass murder?
He was found dead in the room. We do not know for certain that he either planned nor that he, alone, executed the mass murder. Without more evidence, I cannot attribute planning solely to him, nor can I attribute the execution of those plans solely to him. Was he involved? Almost certainly. We can't prove he acted alone, however, and two of those who have contradicted that scenario are already dead, unable to be questioned further. 
Although no mention has been made of drugs, we have no toxicological data. We have only a superficial examination of his brain, saying that appeared normal, but no solid cytological data from the M.E. indicating the absence of abnormality.
Maybe he wasn't acting rationally, and maybe he was, just within a demented context. Keep in mind he allegedly assembled more firearms than would be required for the task by any one shooter, easily three times that number, and apparently (though we have no inventory) sufficient ammunition to exact mayhem and murder. He did so without alerting the hotel staff. Crazy like a fox, but not irrational, just rational in a context and with an objective we consider completely inappropriate.
He may have been angry, but we don't know what motivated that anger. He had examined other gatherings, according to some sources, but taken no action, whether out of poor opportunity, or perhaps music more to his taste. I would expect there was more to this than just a losing streak at the machines or the desire to be the ultimate music critic.

You are right in that the machines are set to pay out (over time) generally a percentage from 40 to 75 (or sometimes more) of the money put in. The house doesn't put them there just for decoration; they are money makers. Out of a casino floor of machines, there may be a few which pay out better than the rest, even consistently, but the average visiting player will likely not identify those, and many who 'hit big' will move on because they think the machine will not hit again for a long time after a jackpot.
That isn't how it works. You were either lucky or you found a 'hot' machine. But most people don't understand the calculus of having a few big winners to keep the dream alive for the multitude who are consistently losing 30 to 40 or more cents on every dollar they put in. A lot of that payout percentage is small change, which is cycled through the machine until it is gone or the player relents.
A professional gambler would understand all that. He would recognize that some machines are lemons, others are jewels, and would not likely persist in a losing streak. A compulsive gambler (not necessarily professional) would keep stuffing money in in the certainty that sooner or later they'd get it back (a plot element in a host of sitcom episodes), but a pro knows when to fold 'em and move on. Whether playing nickels or the house limit, though, the house, statistically, will keep a percentage of every wager placed.
If he gambled professionally, (i.e. made a living at it), that's one thing. If it was compulsive, that's another. Either way, he had the means to do so.
Quote
 
Paddock called himself a professional gambler.  I think he was a gambling addict.  He was reputed to have spent hours at video poker machines. Those machines, like the slots, are rigged in favor of the house.  I don't believe a professional gambler would spend so much time at machines.  If he was addicted, maybe he just couldn't stop himself and this inability to stop gambling morphed into something more deadly.
I don't know many pros who would rely on machines to make a living. There are a few folks out there who have recognized high payout machines in casinos and done well, but for the most part, they are better to study the odds on a game in which they actually have some control over the outcome other than placing a bet and pushing a button. High limit poker, baccarat, even blackjack allow for some skill factor. Small fortunes, even oil wells, have been won and lost at those. He did have a reputation as a 'whale', a high limit regular, but I doubt he was a consistent high level loser, even though I have no evidence to support that, and it is open to being refuted.
Still, without more data, I am seeing what appears to be dribbles of alleged information which could be intended to provide the basis for assuming he was a raving nutter, when he may have been a cold and calculating killer instead, fully cognizant of what he was doing, for whatever motive, and performing with malice and forethought. That's scarier than the idea of even a latent jihadi convert, and better grist for the mills of those who push gun control. The concept that someone who appears relatively normal, or even a 'nice guy', might be a mass murderer hiding behind a thin veil of civility does more to bolster regulating the equipment than the operator in the minds of the hoplophobe, because, as they would frame the argument, 'you never know when they are going to lose it'--a fallacious argument which presumes that is an inevitable event and one which could neither be anticipated nor prevented by means other than banning items.

I am ever careful of how this is being portrayed, and perhaps overly sensitive to subtle messaging which could be used by anti-RKBA folks who definitely have their own agenda.
I'm still waiting to see what the official results are.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline austingirl

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I am listening to this hour long interview. Very little new info beside the losing money in the past year. Sheriff repeatedly calls him psychotic  Paddock fired "about a thousand shots" and had 4000 additional rounds. Sheriff would like to confront people on the internet with their conspiracy theories- he doesn't like this!

Regarding the receipt for two people on room service- maybe he liked to eat a lot.

He said the leaked photos were evidentiary and while they are investigating, they may never know. He sure is big on we may never know.


http://www.lasvegasnow.com/news/web-extra-george-knapp-interviews-sheriff-joe-lombardo/849308034
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Offline austingirl

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The sheriff made several contradictory statements. He said Paddock was depressed then said he would be called out by the psychiatric community for labeling him.

He referenced "what he had been told" when he answered questions. I take it the FBI is holding tight to any information.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline Smokin Joe

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The sheriff made several contradictory statements. He said Paddock was depressed then said he would be called out by the psychiatric community for labeling him.

He referenced "what he had been told" when he answered questions. I take it the FBI is holding tight to any information.
If he doesn't know, and decries the speculation of others, the proper and correct response is "We don't know and will not release speculation during an ongoing investigation."

He can, however, release material facts (like amount of ammo used, caliber and type of that expended ammo, ammo remaining, number of and type of firearms actually utilized, etc. He may see doing so as feeding the scuttlebutt mills, but it would be a bone to toss those who want to know what happened. Also, releasing images and/or video could prove to be helpful to the investigation. The tv show "Live PD" has had viewers call in who saw things the officers on scene missed and which contributed to prosecution of suspects, for instance. Some viewer might catch something the LEOs missed.
ALso, if there were no other shooters, then the evidence and checks for fired bullets and expended brass in the area of the venue should have come up empty handed, and that should be released to squelch speculation,  if nothing else.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DCPatriot

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Not so broke he couldn't wire $100,000 to the PI!

Maybe a bit OT, but...I recall reading, maybe 20 years ago, in Thailand one could live like a 'king' on 100K per.

Maybe he was sending it as an act of love and kindness.   Imagine, even homicidal maniacs have people important to them.   :shrug:

"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline austingirl

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If he doesn't know, and decries the speculation of others, the proper and correct response is "We don't know and will not release speculation during an ongoing investigation."

He can, however, release material facts (like amount of ammo used, caliber and type of that expended ammo, ammo remaining, number of and type of firearms actually utilized, etc. He may see doing so as feeding the scuttlebutt mills, but it would be a bone to toss those who want to know what happened. Also, releasing images and/or video could prove to be helpful to the investigation. The tv show "Live PD" has had viewers call in who saw things the officers on scene missed and which contributed to prosecution of suspects, for instance. Some viewer might catch something the LEOs missed.
ALso, if there were no other shooters, then the evidence and checks for fired bullets and expended brass in the area of the venue should have come up empty handed, and that should be released to squelch speculation,  if nothing else.

I agree. This could be handled so much better.
Principles matter. Words matter.