Author Topic: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus  (Read 8254 times)

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Offline Emjay

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2017, 12:12:58 am »
I've known some pod people.  They remind me of this infamous quip by Bob Hope....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a6YdNmK77k

Great clip ... can you imagine anyone in Hollywood saying that today?
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline r9etb

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2017, 12:57:50 am »
They will not talk to conservatives except to threaten, bribe and cajole them into submission. We were told we'll have to pass it before seeing it- we were told all kinds of things- then they barely released it before the planned vote and said no amendments would be considered. The RINO's are acting just like Democrats did with ObamaCare.

If the "moderates" want any changes at all to Obamacare -- and I believe they actually do -- then they're going to have to talk the conservatives, and vice versa.  Both sides represent swing votes in a somewhat slim House majority.  Neither side can get what it wants without the other.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2017, 01:52:06 am »
Collins rates an F (23%) on the Conservative Review Liberty Scorecard.  That's not centrist...that's pretty much Liberal.

It would only be considered "centrist" if he was a Democrat.
They are so scared of being branded 'moderate' they have adopted the moniker 'center-right'.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20150109/NEWS02/150109833/moderate-is-now-a-dirty-word-for-some-house-republicans
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2017, 01:56:45 am »
Oh good grief @txradioguy -- please try and connect all the dots.  The HFC is the problem in that they want it their way at 100% or they threatened to shut everything down.
Why don't you connect the dots by seeing for the first time it was the Dems who were against the bill in far greater numbers than the Freedom Caucus has.

This is the Dems ditching it into the gutter, and you have fallen into the media talking-point trap.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2017, 02:02:33 am »
Anyone else notice that the article mentions that the Tuesday Group met on Wednesday?

They are a pathetic dupe-group it seems.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2017, 02:07:18 am »
How many times has the GOP in the House voted to repeal ACA since the GOP took over? Between 6 and 60, depending upon who you ask.

The GOP has been riding the 'full repeal' bandwagon since 2010.


Till it was actually on their plate.  Then they want to pretend like the position they voted for numerous times is now unreasonable.   

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Online Fishrrman

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2017, 02:20:44 am »
The title of this thread's article is:
"Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus"

What does this have to do with Trump?

Sounds like a problem with them, not him.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2017, 03:55:50 am »
Anyone else notice that the article mentions that the Tuesday Group met on Wednesday?

They are a pathetic dupe-group it seems.

They represent a constituency within the GOP,  who don't think a functioning and fair system of health insurance constitutes tyranny.   

But I do think it's wrong for them to meet on a Wednesday.   
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2017, 09:33:25 am »
Do you have to add them in to the HFC numbers?

Or perhaps add them in to the numbers of House & Senate members that talked a "good game" on the campaign trail, i.e., played to the "Tea Party" electorate in 2010, 2012, 2014....  for the purpose of getting elected! It is my opinion, that both chambers (the House more so) are filled with members that were very happy to run for election (or re-election for some) under the "Tea Party" banner as it allowed them to pick up the votes of people seeking change, regardless of their intent to work toward such change.

Hence, I think that we are at a wash if we consider those rogues!
Yep.
People voted for conservatives and some of them got liars instead.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2017, 09:39:19 am »
Great clip ... can you imagine anyone in Hollywood saying that today?
Sure, on their way to do their next job as a voice-over extra....
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2017, 09:40:28 am »
Anyone else notice that the article mentions that the Tuesday Group met on Wednesday?

They are a pathetic dupe-group it seems.
I wonder if they are a dollar short, too?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2017, 12:26:08 pm »

That's because we haven't played "Cowboys and Centrists" yet.

No -- the centrists have the stronger bargaining position because they're more willing to live with the status quo, which means they lose less if there is no deal at all. 

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2017, 12:27:22 pm »
Yep.
People voted for conservatives and some of them got liars instead.

The conservatives aren't the problem.  They'll vote for repeal.

The problem is the people who were moderates/centrists/RINO's all along, and campaigned that way.  That's why it is so tough to force them to compromise.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2017, 12:47:41 pm »
Centrists campaigned on a promise to fix the ACA.  (Some) conservatives campaigned on a promise to repeal it in toto.   The President, of course, aligns with the centrists.   

That's reality.  Also reality -  Dems are united in opposition to anything coming from the GOP caucus.   

So -  just as was the case eight years ago when the ACA was passed,  any change is going to have to be the result of a compromise that both centrists and ideologues can live with.   That's why the ACA is such a mash-up.  And why any fix is going to have to look the same. 

What's frustrating is that the ACHA was not hastily conceived - it was intended to be an inelegant mash-up that addressed the most important concerns of both ends of the GOP coalition.  For conservatives, the benefits were considerable - an end to the hated mandates,  and an unprecedented use of block grants to restrain the grown of a big federal entitlement program.   

The deal appears to have foundered on a late change that was a bridge too far for centrists, even as it was cynically rejected by the Freedom Caucus.   Trump apparently agreed to eliminating the "essential health benefits" (EHB) language from the ACA.   That's a welcome change from the perspective of permitting insurers to offer skinnier (and, of course, cheaper) plans in the marketplace.   But to centrists,  it was a red flag for their re-election chances.  Imagine the demagoguery  that Dems could unleash against the centrists in toss-up seats -  in the midst of an opioid epidemic, insurers can now issue policies that don't cover substance abuse treatment!  

The AHCA was always a carefully crafted, delicate compromise.   Unity was precious, and the FC essentially blew that unity apart.   It's hard to see how an ACA fix can be resurrected at this point.   I agree with Trump that it is senseless to waste more time and resources on the effort until the GOP caucus re-dedicates itself to unity and compromise in furtherance of the greater good.   
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 12:51:10 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Hondo69

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2017, 01:48:55 pm »
I need a white board to keep up with all the new factions in Washington.

We have the Never Conservative faction who bill themselves as centrists, which translates to whichever way the wind blows and the money flows.

And then there are the RINOs who believe that combining two government programs into a single program makes government smaller.

And of course the Freedom Caucus who prefers to stick with Reagan.



Offline txradioguy

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2017, 01:55:33 pm »
I need a white board to keep up with all the new factions in Washington.

We have the Never Conservative faction who bill themselves as centrists, which translates to whichever way the wind blows and the money flows.

And then there are the RINOs who believe that combining two government programs into a single program makes government smaller.

And of course the Freedom Caucus who prefers to stick with Reagan.



 :amen:

And I would add this one from Reagan too:

Quote
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2017, 01:59:13 pm »
They represent a constituency within the GOP,  who don't think a functioning and fair system of health insurance constitutes tyranny.   



You mean that as a matter of principle,  they are okay with Socialism. 


As a matter of principle,   I am not okay with socialism.  Any effort to move in that direction needs to be opposed.     
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2017, 02:00:39 pm »
No -- the centrists have the stronger bargaining position because they're more willing to live with the status quo, which means they lose less if there is no deal at all.


Well this needs to be evaluated over a time period.   In the short run your argument may be true.   In the long run I believe it is not true at all.   


I have always advocated for playing the long game.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2017, 02:20:57 pm »
In any battle between those who favor unrestricted expansion of government power and those who favor restraints upon such power, those in the "middle" will always lose.

It is always easier to cede one's liberties to the State than it is to ever get them back.
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Offline Doug Loss

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2017, 03:06:21 pm »
It's hard to see how an ACA fix can be resurrected at this point.   

Yup.  Best to just scrap it and start over fresh.  Oh wait, you didn't mean it that way, did you?
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Offline Hondo69

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2017, 03:11:59 pm »
Compromise can be a noble goal.  Half a loaf is sometimes OK.

But when it comes to the health of my children I'll accept neither.

Offline EC

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2017, 03:19:40 pm »
Weird. Yet it's the Freedom Caucus that get labelled the intransigent ones.  :shrug:
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2017, 03:38:29 pm »
The title of this thread's article is: "Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus"

What does this have to do with Trump?

Sounds like a problem with them, not him.



Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2017, 03:43:23 pm »
The problem is the people who were moderates/centrists/RINO's all along, and campaigned that way.  That's why it is so tough to force them to compromise.

Why do you use the acronym "RINO" (Republican in Name Only) when the Republican Party has always been a moderate/centrist political party?

Just curious @Maj. Bill Martin


Offline Hoodat

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Re: Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2017, 04:22:34 pm »
Centrists campaigned on a promise to fix the ACA.

I do not know a single Republican who ran on the platform of fixing Obamacare.  All I heard were a few "Repeal"s and a lot of "Repeal and Replace".  Didn't hear any calls for 'Fix Obamacare'.


The President, of course, aligns with the centrists.

Trump campaigned that he liked the mandates.  No surprise here that you agree with Trump.


What's frustrating is that the ACHA was not hastily conceived - it was intended to be an inelegant mash-up that addressed the most important concerns of both ends of the GOP coalition.

What's frustrating is that the ACHA does not do what Republicans have been promising to do for the last seven years.  Not even close.
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