Trump accused the Freedom Caucus of 'saving' Obamacare. Its leader said it's not over.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Sanguine @musiclady

Or, keeping promises and standing on principle. 

To whom are you referring here?  If it is to individual moderates like Senator Portman or Representative Dent, they didn't promise to repeal Obamacare and not replace it.  For them, they'd be violating promises if they voted for repeal with no replacement.

If you're referring to conservatives/Freedom Caucus, I'll say that I agree that they should support a complete repeal, without replacement.  And if that could pass, great. 

But the more difficult question is what they should do if they want to pass a complete repeal, but the votes just aren't there.  How do they keep their promise to repeal Obamacare if they just don't have enough votes to get it through?  Because if that is the situation, then they are going to break that repeal promise no matter how they vote as individuals.

So the more difficult question is asking what the FC/conservatives should do about Obamacare if the votes for a full repeal/no replace are not there.  Should they refuse to pass anything at all, and insist on full repeal or nothing?   Or should they vote for the most conservative deal that can pass the Congress?

[Emjay]

Because a lot of people here are WHIIINERS.  Like on the old SNL show.  They are so determined to prove they were right in not wanting Trump, they refuse to give him the slightest break.

He made a mistake with supporting a bad replacement for Obamacare.

So, yeah, that's the end of the world as we know it.

What about all the great people he's appointed?  Do you think Obama's people were like this?  No, they STILL worship him.  Talk about worshipping a false god.

I'm accused of Trump drooling because I want to support him and give him a break.  I happen to live in the world where Trump is president.  I remember when Rush said about Obama,"I hope he fails."

Rush took a lot of flack but he was right.  I take considerable flack because I don't hope Trump fails.

Someone's crazy ... hope it's not me.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Emjay

I know there were faults with the bill but what about take what you can get now and then get more?

It's an art the dems have perfected.

They've figured out that two steps forward, one back is a formula for long-term success.  We haven't.  For some, a partial repeal is worse than no repeal at all.

I honestly can't figure it out.

[corbe]

   First casualty and a TEXAN (Houston) to boot, wussy!


GOP Rep Quits Freedom Caucus over Trumpcare Vote

Richard Carson/Reuters

Republican Rep. Ted Poe has quit the hardline House Freedom Caucus over the group’s opposition to an Obamacare replacement plan heralded by President Donald Trump and House Speaker Paul Ryan. Poe was reportedly inclined to vote in favor of the American Health Care Act, before Ryan and Trump pulled it from the floor when they realized they did not have enough votes. “Leaving this caucus will allow me to be a more effective Member of Congress and advocate for the people of Texas. It is time to lead,” Poe said in a statement. Trump lashed out at the Freedom Caucus on Twitter Sunday morning, accusing them of having “saved” Planned Parenthood and Obamacare.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/03/26/gop-rep-quits-freedom-caucus-over-trumpcare-vote.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

[Emjay]

@Emjay

They've figured out that two steps forward, one back is a formula for long-term success.  We haven't.  For some, a partial repeal is worse than no repeal at all.

I honestly can't figure it out.

I can't figure some of these people out at all.  I had to go get my dog.

[Emjay]

   First casualty and a TEXAN (Houston) to boot, wussy!


GOP Rep Quits Freedom Caucus over Trumpcare Vote

Richard Carson/Reuters

Republican Rep. Ted Poe has quit the hardline House Freedom Caucus over the group’s opposition to an Obamacare replacement plan heralded by President Donald Trump and House Speaker Paul Ryan. Poe was reportedly inclined to vote in favor of the American Health Care Act, before Ryan and Trump pulled it from the floor when they realized they did not have enough votes. “Leaving this caucus will allow me to be a more effective Member of Congress and advocate for the people of Texas. It is time to lead,” Poe said in a statement. Trump lashed out at the Freedom Caucus on Twitter Sunday morning, accusing them of having “saved” Planned Parenthood and Obamacare.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2017/03/26/gop-rep-quits-freedom-caucus-over-trumpcare-vote.html?via=desktop&source=copyurl

First person to want to free himself of an organization that demanded lockstep obedience.  Not a crime, in my book.

[corbe]

I can't figure some of these people out at all.  I had to go get my dog.

    If it weren't for Dogs I'd have no friends at all @Emjay

[corbe]

First person to want to free himself of an organization that demanded lockstep obedience.  Not a crime, in my book.

   You got that all wrong, @Emjay
   The Freedom Caucus is entirely voluntary, like remaining at the Alamo after Santa Anna raised the 'no quarter' flag.  One person left then too, the others stayed to fight and die so this State could become a Republic. 
   Always, there's more glory and dignity in doing the right thing. JS

[Maj. Bill Martin]

   You got that all wrong, @Emjay
   The Freedom Caucus is entirely voluntary, like remaining at the Alamo after Santa Anna raised the 'no quarter' flag.  One person left then too, the others stayed to fight and die so this State could become a Republic. 
   Always, there's more glory and dignity in doing the right thing. JS

Somehow, I think the Freedom caucus losing votes is much less analogous to the inspirational stand of the Alamo, than it is to the "no retreat" order issued to the Sixth Army in Stalingrad.  And that particular order didn't work out so well for either the defenders, or their comrades.

[Emjay]

   You got that all wrong, @Emjay
   The Freedom Caucus is entirely voluntary, like remaining at the Alamo after Santa Anna raised the 'no quarter' flag.  One person left then too, the others stayed to fight and die so this State could become a Republic. 
   Always, there's more glory and dignity in doing the right thing. JS

I could be wrong.... always a first time.  But apparently that Texas boy felt too much pressure from the Caucus to allow him to vote for the bill when he wanted to.  Or, he began to disagree with the aims.

Dignifying this political melee with an Alamo comparison is like bring Hitler into stuff.

[Mom MD]

Same here.  Unless he soon changes who he is willing to pay attention to on serious matters the best opportunity for meaningful change in Washington we've seen in ages will go by the way side.

The really sad part is that this was a golden opportunity to elect a real conservative.  Like we haven't seen in years and may not see again.  I can't help but wonder what President Cruz would have accomplished.  Or even one of the other less conservative but still better than what we have candidates.

[Cripplecreek]

   You got that all wrong, @Emjay
   The Freedom Caucus is entirely voluntary, like remaining at the Alamo after Santa Anna raised the 'no quarter' flag.  One person left then too, the others stayed to fight and die so this State could become a Republic. 
   Always, there's more glory and dignity in doing the right thing. JS

I don't recall hearing any threats out of the Freedom caucus but I do know that Trump was openly threatening to "primary" those who didn't vote for the crap sammich. Poe leaving only strengthens the freedom caucus while weakening Trump's neo democrats.

[Mom MD]

Because a lot of people here are WHIIINERS.  Like on the old SNL show.  They are so determined to prove they were right in not wanting Trump, they refuse to give him the slightest break.

He made a mistake with supporting a bad replacement for Obamacare.

So, yeah, that's the end of the world as we know it.

What about all the great people he's appointed?  Do you think Obama's people were like this?  No, they STILL worship him.  Talk about worshipping a false god.

I'm accused of Trump drooling because I want to support him and give him a break.  I happen to live in the world where Trump is president.  I remember when Rush said about Obama,"I hope he fails."

Rush took a lot of flack but he was right.  I take considerable flack because I don't hope Trump fails.

Someone's crazy ... hope it's not me.

I'm willing to give him a break.  I took a wait and see attitude to his election.  I even voted for him given the choice of trump or Hillary.  But I had very low expectations and so far he has lived up to them.  This fiasco is bigger than healthcare (which by the way hits me in a very damaging way).  He has now shown the democrats that the republicans are a bunch of pushovers that can't agree on what day of the week it is.  They will be emboldened to oppose absolutely everything now from supreme court picks to tax relief to whatever else the republicans might accomplish.  Trump and Ryan are dead in the water.

[INVAR]

@Emjay

They've figured out that two steps forward, one back is a formula for long-term success.  We haven't.  For some, a partial repeal is worse than no repeal at all.

That is a very incorrect analogy as it relates to the GOP and liberty.

The correct analogy is two steps Left towards tyranny - and maybe, one half-step right towards regaining what was usurped by the imposition of Statism.

That is not any kind of formula for any kind of "success" in stopping tyranny without bloodshed. That is a formula for slavery and simply accepting Socialism and Statism as our form of governance.

[corbe]

@Emjay @Maj. Bill Martin

   Ted Poe is from Texas, not Germany or Russia, that's why I used the Alamo analogy. 
   Granted my analogy is weak but he's still a wuss for skipping out, but so be it now it's up to his constituents to do something about it, as I'm sure he campaigned on Repeal & Replace not as another member so brilliantly put it, rename and resuscitate.

[corbe]

   From Ted Poes official web site:

Healthcare: Patient-Centered, not Government-Driven

I opposed the government takeover of healthcare bill because it was unconstitutional, unworkable and too expensive. Our healthcare system should prioritize the doctor/patient relationship, not insert the government between doctor and patient. An individual must retain a choice in determining his/her doctor.

I voted against the Affordable Care Act – “Obamacare” – and have voted repeatedly for its repeal. I was one of the first Members to introduce a bill to prohibit the use of federal funds for the implementation and enforcement of any federal mandate to purchase health insurance. I was deeply disappointed with the Supreme Court’s ruling on Obamacare. If the federal government has the power to force Americans to do something with threat of a tax, what is next? A government-approved house or green car? I will continue to fight to repeal this expensive, government takeover of health care and replace it with a patient-centered, cost-effective system that keeps the federal government out of our doctor’s office and out of our private lives.

    Sorry Mr. Poe, AHCA was still Government driven.
   Typical Politician, say one thing to get elected, do another.

[Silver Pines]

Because a lot of people here are WHIIINERS.  Like on the old SNL show.  They are so determined to prove they were right in not wanting Trump, they refuse to give him the slightest break.

He made a mistake with supporting a bad replacement for Obamacare.

So, yeah, that's the end of the world as we know it.

What about all the great people he's appointed?  Do you think Obama's people were like this?  No, they STILL worship him.  Talk about worshipping a false god.

I'm accused of Trump drooling because I want to support him and give him a break.  I happen to live in the world where Trump is president.  I remember when Rush said about Obama,"I hope he fails."

Rush took a lot of flack but he was right.  I take considerable flack because I don't hope Trump fails.

Someone's crazy ... hope it's not me.

I keep in touch with someone who left TOS who happens to know Limbaugh, or used to.  He told me that Rush's Trump fanboyishness (is that a word) is nothing but Rush's childhood, which he never got over...he was always the fat ostracized kid longing to be in with the cool kids.  He'll do anything to stay a member of Trump's golfing group, even to sticking some kind of slavish "I trust Trump" graphic on his site. 

@Emjay, the thing is, Trump is a public servant.  An employee.  Last night you said that you owe him so much.  No, you don't.  It's actually the other way around.  He owes you.

Are you going to excuse him every time with "he made a mistake", as though he were a five year old who spilled a glass of milk?  If so, why?

Speaking for myself, if I cared about being right, I wouldn't have come on here the morning after the election, congratulated the Trump supporters, admitted I was totally wrong about his chances of winning, and stating that I would credit him whenever he did something right.  I would much, much rather be completely wrong about him.  But it doesn't look like it, unfortunately, and the country will be the worse for it.

Now I figure I'm going to be real and go with what I always knew about him, no matter how many times I get scolded for doing so, and I know I'm not crazy.  I'm just realistic about Trump.

[Taxcontrol]

That's "all"?  Ok, then if enough support actually exists to pass a clean repeal, then why doesn't the House just pass it?  Put the onus on Trump to veto it if he doesn't like it.

A lot has to do with the Speaker supporting the status quo and the President supporting the government take over of health care.

[EasyAce]

@EasyAce

Sarah Palin, anyone?  Good grief, anyone who dared to offer less than effusive praise on her threads instantly attracted a pack of hyenas.

Including one BobJ, one of TOS's co-founding fathers, who got run off after a protracted debate over her, with
him taking the less than effusive praise side of it and the hyenas led by His Eminence Himself rousting and
running him.

And let's not forget how the hyenas pounced upon just about anyone who cried foul when GWB and his (alleged)
Republican Congress inflated big government like a dirigible---never mind how the hyenas themselves were
yapping previously that GWB needed that Republican Congress to put his "conservative" agenda into place.

[endicom]

Including one BobJ...

My experience with him in a subsequent forum didn't have me thinking highly of him.

[EasyAce]

My experience with him in a subsequent forum didn't have me thinking highly of him.

He could be contentious and a little bit intractable, but I met him once and he was a nice guy.
And during the Palin hoo-ha he was crucified rather unfairly and petulantly when he was
actually trying to be reasonable and discuss his positions with logic and sense.

[Emjay]

I keep in touch with someone who left TOS who happens to know Limbaugh, or used to.  He told me that Rush's Trump fanboyishness (is that a word) is nothing but Rush's childhood, which he never got over...he was always the fat ostracized kid longing to be in with the cool kids.  He'll do anything to stay a member of Trump's golfing group, even to sticking some kind of slavish "I trust Trump" graphic on his site. 

@Emjay, the thing is, Trump is a public servant.  An employee.  Last night you said that you owe him so much.  No, you don't.  It's actually the other way around.  He owes you.

Are you going to excuse him every time with "he made a mistake", as though he were a five year old who spilled a glass of milk?  If so, why?

Speaking for myself, if I cared about being right, I wouldn't have come on here the morning after the election, congratulated the Trump supporters, admitted I was totally wrong about his chances of winning, and stating that I would credit him whenever he did something right.  I would much, much rather be completely wrong about him.  But it doesn't look like it, unfortunately, and the country will be the worse for it.

Now I figure I'm going to be real and go with what I always knew about him, no matter how many times I get scolded for doing so, and I know I'm not crazy.  I'm just realistic about Trump.

You have a friend who used to know Rush?  Wow, and you can totally psychoanalyze him.  You and your friend should go into business.

Look, I've read enough of your posts to know your opinions pretty well.  You will never get 'scolded' here for anti-Trump sentiments...you're in the majority with those.

So, you know, have fun if it makes you feel all virtuous.

I'm just thinking about the country instead of how much Trump embarrasses me.

[corbe]

I'm just thinking about the country instead of how much Trump embarrasses me.

   They are not Mutually Exclusive @Emjay

[Cripplecreek]

   They are not Mutually Exclusive @Emjay

Trump is embarrassing the country.

[Emjay]

   They are not Mutually Exclusive @Emjay

They kinda are.  Do you think it is better for conservatives and the country if Trump gets laughed out of office? 

Or driven out some other way?

I do not see how this is good for the country or conservatives.  I think we should .... well, if you can't support him because you are too dam noble ... then at least back off and give him a chance for say 120 days instead of 60.