Trump accused the Freedom Caucus of 'saving' Obamacare. Its leader said it's not over.

[EasyAce]

Just like at TOS a lot of "conservatives" are being revealed as populists worshipping a cult of personality.

Worshipping personalities over there didn't exactly begin with Donaldus Minimus. For years you could see
the personality cultists hoisting their idols while big government continued to metastasise under enough
of those idols, when they weren't running to Daddy to have those who dared to stand athwart big government
were rousted and run.

I voted for Trump given the alternative and hoped to be pleasantly surprised.  So far I haven't been surprised at all.  It's sad that the true believers will never see the truth.

I'm even more grateful now that my state had the "None of These Candidates" option.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Just like at TOS a lot of "conservatives" are being revealed as populists worshipping a cult of personality.  I voted for Trump given the alternative and hoped to be pleasantly surprised.  So far I haven't been surprised at all.  It's sad that the true believers will never see the truth.

Same. I'm hoping these 4 years go by fast if this is what it's like. I won't make the same mistake twice.

[Silver Pines]

Just like at TOS a lot of "conservatives" are being revealed as populists worshipping a cult of personality.  I voted for Trump given the alternative and hoped to be pleasantly surprised.  So far I haven't been surprised at all.  It's sad that the true believers will never see the truth.

@Mom MD
@Right_in_Virginia

And I understand your reasoning, though I voted third party myself.  After the election I decided that I would give Trump credit for whatever good he does and criticize his mistakes.  But I'm done with that.  Anything decent which comes out of this administration will be an accident. 

I'm not going to allow some Trumpist to berate me for the same misgivings she voices with her other face when she goes elsewhere.

[Silver Pines]

Worshipping personalities over there didn't exactly begin with Donaldus Minimus. For years you could see
the personality cultists hoisting their idols while big government continued to metastasise under enough
of those idols, when they weren't running to Daddy to have those who dared to stand athwart big government
were rousted and run.
I'm even more grateful now that my state had the "None of These Candidates" option.

@EasyAce

Sarah Palin, anyone?  Good grief, anyone who dared to offer less than effusive praise on her threads instantly attracted a pack of hyenas. 

[Sanguine]

It wasn't just conservatives who gave Republicans that majority.  There also were a lot of non-conservative populists, as well as a lot of swing voters who didn't like Hillary.

The point is that there is no "conservative" majority.  There is a Republican majority.  So for conservatives to insist on getting exactly what they want, when they don't have the votes to do that, is perfectionism.

Or, keeping promises and standing on principle.  I guess it depends on your particular worldview.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I'm not going to allow some Trumpist to berate me

It would be most helpful @CatherineofAragon if you would explain your definition of "berate". --- Take your time, I'll be offline and involved in life for the next few hours.

Thanks.

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee   Your post is Exhibit A for this wise adage:

Yeah, well.... making conservatives out to be the problem and ergo, the scapegoat in this fiasco is the very definition of nuts in my book.  And I have my own adage....

if the truth (what you're calling an insult) fits...

wear it.

[Bigun]

@Mom MD
@Right_in_Virginia

And I understand your reasoning, though I voted third party myself.  After the election I decided that I would give Trump credit for whatever good he does and criticize his mistakes.  But I'm done with that.  Anything decent which comes out of this administration will be an accident. 

I'm not going to allow some Trumpist to berate me for the same misgivings she voices with her other face when she goes elsewhere.

Same here.  Unless he soon changes who he is willing to pay attention to on serious matters the best opportunity for meaningful change in Washington we've seen in ages will go by the way side.

[Sanguine]

It would be most helpful @CatherineofAragon if you would explain your definition of "berate". --- Take your time, I'll be offline and involved in life for the next few hours.

Thanks.

Do you think the word is mutable?  Do you see things in a relativistic way? 

[Sanguine]

Yeah, well.... making conservatives out to be the problem and ergo, the scapegoat in this fiasco is the very definition of nuts in my book.  And I have my own adage....

if the truth (what you're calling an insult) fits...

wear it.

@XenaLee, you might as well give it up - you are arguing with a master in the insult game.  Just admit you're lacking in this area and move on.   

[INVAR]

It wasn't just conservatives who gave Republicans that majority.  There also were a lot of non-conservative populists, as well as a lot of swing voters who didn't like Hillary.

The point is that there is no "conservative" majority.  There is a Republican majority.  So for conservatives to insist on getting exactly what they want, when they don't have the votes to do that, is perfectionism.

I'm certainly glad our Founders and Patriarchs were not as lukewarm and wishy-washy as this generation when it comes to standing on immovable principles that they insisted upon to the point of being willing to hang for them.

Tyranny wholesale is imposed in the middle of the night by a rogue government without a single representative being allowed to read what they pass into "law", and here we argue about taking small steps to create an illusion of resistance while strengthening and entrenching said tyranny into permanence.

We should be ashamed, but instead we chastise 'perfection' and accept the premise that tyranny is our inevitable reality that we must accept and massage it so we can receive breadcrumbs of the liberty that was stolen from us by tyrants.

[musiclady]

Or, keeping promises and standing on principle.  I guess it depends on your particular worldview.

There is a worldview out there, and among us, that says that all principles are "rigid" and that asking for people to keep promises is "perfectionism."

There is a need to demean principle, honesty and conviction to erroneously blame the mess that 'moderates' have made on conservatives.

It's as obvious as it is unfortunate and wrongheaded.

[musiclady]

Yeah, well.... making conservatives out to be the problem and ergo, the scapegoat in this fiasco is the very definition of nuts in my book.  And I have my own adage....

if the truth (what you're calling an insult) fits...

wear it.

 

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee, you might as well give it up - you are arguing with a master in the insult game.  Just admit you're lacking in this area and move on.   

I don't need to be a master in the insult game....nor do I want to be.   I just need to be an expert in logic.  And what RIV is spewing against conservatives here is illogical... and bullsquat.

[Silver Pines]

It would be most helpful @CatherineofAragon if you would explain your definition of "berate". --- Take your time, I'll be offline and involved in life for the next few hours.

Thanks.

@Right_in_Virginia

Maybe this evening we can discuss why you pretend to one POV here and another elsewhere.  Would you like to have that conversation?

That's a rhetorical question, btw.  Add it to your word list.

[Silver Pines]

Same here.  Unless he soon changes who he is willing to pay attention to on serious matters the best opportunity for meaningful change in Washington will go by the way side.

@Bigun

Personally I don't expect that he will. He's seventy years old and set in his ways.  It would be a miracle, IMO, They do happen, of course, but...

[Bigun]

@Bigun

Personally I don't expect that he will. He's seventy years old and set in his ways.  It would be a miracle, IMO, They do happen, of course, but...

I won't be holding my breath waiting for it either.   

[FreeReign]

It wasn't just conservatives who gave Republicans that majority.  There also were a lot of non-conservative populists, as well as a lot of swing voters who didn't like Hillary.

The point is that there is no "conservative" majority.  There is a Republican majority.  So for conservatives to insist on getting exactly what they want, when they don't have the votes to do that, is perfectionism.

There has been a majority all along to simply repeal Obamacare. That's what they voted for numerous times. That's what Ryan and Trump are fighting against.

[Emjay]

Off the top of my head, they also got the elimination of the business mandate/tax penalty, and the elimination of the "essential health benefits" requirement.  The former would have helped a lot of small/medium businesses, and the latter would have reduced costs for most people.  We also got a transitioning of the Medicaid supplement to block grants, and a date for beginning phase-out.

Instead, we got bupkis.

I know there were faults with the bill but what about take what you can get now and then get more?

It's an art the dems have perfected.

As far as overly perfectionist, yeah, when I was on TOS there was a bill up for passage in Mississippi that would have classified unborn babies as 'persons' .... so they would have rights.  There was one old codger who was against it because it had no provisions for killing the doctors who had previously performed abortions.

[Rivergirl]

My own congressman is a NO vote  Our state is liberal.  There are many other congress critters in liberal areas that are not going to jump on tRump's tRain.

[corbe]

The AHCA Died Because Some Republicans Still Have Values And Spines
 
By: Frank Camp,

March 25, 2017


With the news that the American Health Care Act (AHCA) was pulled Friday, and President Trump showing signs that he's ready to throw down some blame and retreat to 1600 Penn, it would be easy to feel defeated. However, there's a silver lining.

Yes, House Republicans failed to begin the process of repealing the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), which has been an unmitigated disaster from its inception, and will only continue to get worse. Yes, House Republicans failed to draft replacement legislation that would lift the onerous regulations and break the anti-free market engineering of our current healthcare system. Yes, many Americans – with the goading of Democratic politicians – will come to believe that the burning garbage heap that was the AHCA was the "conservative" solution, and gravitate toward whatever unsustainable nonsense the Left has to offer.

All of that really sucks – but conservatives didn't back down. It may sound like a nothing burger, but a politician with a spine is harder to find than organic tissue in Cher's face.

Conservatives in the House of Representatives didn't bow down after the repeated browbeatings by fellow Republicans, nor – and this is arguably more important – did they capitulate to President Trump's bully tactics.

In the days leading up to the vote, which was originally planned for Thursday but pushed to Friday, Trump issued several serious threats.

The New York Times reports:

As House leaders struggled to negotiate with holdouts in the hopes of rescheduling the vote, Mr. Trump sent senior officials to the Capitol with a blunt message: He would agree to no additional changes, and Republicans must either support the bill or resign themselves to leaving President Barack Obama’s signature domestic achievement in place.

Reuters reports:

Trump himself warned House Republicans in a meeting on Tuesday that their seats will be at risk next year if they do not support his healthcare bill, which would modify but not eliminate Obamacare ...

Either vote for the AHCA, or Obamacare stays and you lose in 2018. That was President Trump's message to conservatives in the House. Nevertheless, they persisted.

If House conservatives had gone along with the AHCA, they would have been complicit in advancing a chimera – socialized medicine with just a twist of market principle – genetically engineered to die. Such a plan isn't simply unsustainable, it's anathema to free-market conservatism.

Trump may blame conservatives for not repealing Obamacare; he may attempt to interfere in their re-elections; he may walk away from healthcare reform entirely. The situation isn't pleasant, but those who stood on principle should be applauded because the AHCA would have done absolutely nothing to help Americans suffering under the Affordable Care Act – and isn't that the point of repeal and replace?

<..snip..>

http://www.dailywire.com/news/14785/ahca-died-because-some-republicans-still-have-frank-camp?utm_source=thenewamericana.com

[GtHawk]

I know there were faults with the bill but what about take what you can get now and then get more?

It's an art the dems have perfected.

As far as overly perfectionist, yeah, when I was on TOS there was a bill up for passage in Mississippi that would have classified unborn babies as 'persons' .... so they would have rights.  There was one old codger who was against it because it had no provisions for killing the doctors who had previously performed abortions.

Where in recent history have you ever known the republican party to not take what it was allowed and then give away the store? It's funny how unlike your view of them, the democrats will stick to their guns and their demands while republican leadership will always fold like a cheap beach chair and be happy the dems let them play a little. I thought the whole purpose and point of this election was that we weren't going to play the same old tired losing strategy the republican leadership has been using. Here we are with the democrats playing hardball while the republicans are playing tiddly winks and happy if they get the crumbs from the cookie. To quote the great Donald "Very sad! "

[Emjay]

Where in recent history have you ever known the republican party to not take what it was allowed and then give away the store? It's funny how unlike your view of them, the democrats will stick to their guns and their demands while republican leadership will always fold like a cheap beach chair and be happy the dems let them play a little. I thought the whole purpose and point of this election was that we weren't going to play the same old tired losing strategy the republican leadership has been using. Here we are with the democrats playing hardball while the republicans are playing tiddly winks and happy if they get the crumbs from the cookie. To quote the great Donald "Very sad! "

I think I know one reason this site is popular.... people are allowed to spout inane opinions and also insult without getting slapped.

[Emjay]

As far as I know Obama had the presidency and both houses.  Most of what he got done fell into the negative column.  He succeeded in promoting Muslims and sanctuary cities and he got Obamacare.

The result:  We now have a Republican President, House and Senate.

But ... nobody's happy.

[INVAR]

I think I know one reason this site is popular.... people are allowed to spout inane opinions and also insult without getting slapped.

What in the world is inane about this truth GtHawk posted?

Where in recent history have you ever known the republican party to not take what it was allowed and then give away the store? It's funny how unlike your view of them, the democrats will stick to their guns and their demands while republican leadership will always fold like a cheap beach chair and be happy the dems let them play a little. I thought the whole purpose and point of this election was that we weren't going to play the same old tired losing strategy the republican leadership has been using. Here we are with the democrats playing hardball while the republicans are playing tiddly winks and happy if they get the crumbs from the cookie. To quote the great Donald "Very sad! "

Nothing he posted there was either inane or insulting unless you are a Party Hack cheerleader, which in that case I could imagine your feathers getting ruffled.

As far as I know Obama had the presidency and both houses.  Most of what he got done fell into the negative column.  He succeeded in promoting Muslims and sanctuary cities and he got Obamacare.

The result:  We now have a Republican President, House and Senate.

But ... nobody's happy.

Because the principles of liberty as imbued within the principles of Conservatism are no longer part of any discussion or policy on this people's minds, hearts or lips.

The only principles being argued about is how much Socialism/Marxism and Leftism we are supposed to swallow and get along with and call it good.