Trump accused the Freedom Caucus of 'saving' Obamacare. Its leader said it's not over.

[Jazzhead]

That's misleading. 

He met with them, heard their complaints, and the bill was adjusted a few times.  One example was the incorporation of the conservative demand for elimination of minimal essential coverages.  But it got to the point where they would be losing too many moderate votes if they gave any more, so they said no more - this is it.  That was based on headcounting votes and knowing what could pass.

The FC said "no" at that point, at which time there weren't enough votes for passage.  So some moderates who had been convinced to vote yes then backed off as well, because they weren't willing to cast a controversial vote in a losing cause.

The problem for Trump and congressional leadership is that when they give too much on the right, they lose votes on the left, and vice-versa.

The FC screwed this pooch,  and the ripples will constrain the ability to enact conservative reforms for the foreseeable future.

We will now,  I presume,  pivot to tax reform, but without that $1 trillion reduction in the budget baseline (over ten years) that repeal of the ACA subsidies would have achieved.  So tax reform - at least tax reform along conservative principles - has just gotten that much harder.    And there's no reason to think the FC will take yes for an answer on tax reform either.

The way ahead for Trump is now clear - he needs to build a coalition that doesn't include the Freedom Caucus.  That means reaching out to moderates of both parties.   The Dems,  so focused on "resistance", may not oblige,  but there's nothing in Trump's background to suggest he won't cut deals with centrists to get results.

The GOP's majority after 2018 depends on its achieving tangible results in doing the peoples' business.   It is time to jettison those conservatives who ache only for confrontation and battle,  the casualties be damned.   

We cannot partner with fools. 

   

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin @catfish1957

Well let's see you can start with the reforms to Social Security and Medicare that Newt and Billy Jeff worked on together

What bill was that?  As I recall, they had a basic deal that would have resulted in some privatization of Social Security, which was a conservative idea, along with raising the retirement age -- another conservative idea.  The bargain fell apart when the Lewinsky scandal broke, but I don't consider moving pre-existing programs in a conservative direction to be compromising with the left.  And you'll have to help me out on the Medicare deal to which you're referring, because I don't recall that.

Then there's W letting Ted Kennedy write NCLB...having to put a sunset on the tax cuts he implemented.

Is that a good start for specifics?

W wasn't a conservative, and conservatives did oppose NCLB.

[Night Hides Not]

Thank you for proving that besides being overly emotional where Trump is concerned...you like most Trump supporters just want vengeance and “winning” no matter what that means.

Conservatives are the sheep, Trump and his supporters are the wolves voting on what's for lunch.

Time to dust off Atlas Shrugged: Trump is Mr. Thompson, Reince Priebus is Wesley Mouch, and Steve Bannon is Floyd Ferris.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The FC screwed this pooch,  and the ripples will constrain the ability to enact conservative reforms for the foreseeable future.

We will now,  I presume,  pivot to tax reform, but without that $1 trillion reduction in the budget baseline (over ten years) that repeal of the ACA subsidies would have achieved.  So tax reform - at least tax reform along conservative principles - has just gotten that much harder.    And there's no reason to think the FC will take yes for an answer on tax reform either.

The way ahead for Trump is now clear - he needs to build a coalition that doesn't include the Freedom Caucus.  That means reaching out to moderates of both parties.   The Dems,  so focused on "resistance", may not oblige,  but there's nothing in Trump's background to suggest he won't cut deals with centrists to get results.

The GOP's majority after 2018 depends on its achieving tangible results in doing the peoples' business.   It is time to jettison those conservatives who ache only for confrontation and battle,  the casualties be damned.   

We cannot partner with fools. 

 

If the FC doesn't learn anything from this, and doesn't become any more willing to compromise, then you're right.  I just hope you're wrong.

[Bigun]

“Republics are created by the virtue, public spirit, and intelligence of the citizens. They fall, when the wise are banished from the public councils, because they dare to be honest, and the profligate are rewarded, because they flatter the people, in order to betray them.”


Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution, 1833

[roamer_1]

If the FC doesn't learn anything from this, and doesn't become any more willing to compromise, then you're right.  I just hope you're wrong.

True Conservatives have never ever compromised on principle.
I have been hearing this same crap my entire life.
That you expect them to now is what is absurd.

And they are stone-dead right.

[Silver Pines]

Actually @CatherineofAragon you stated you feel berated.  My only interest is in knowing why.

If that doesn't interest you ... well, so be it.

Take care.

No, @Right_in_Virginia, I don't "feel" anything.  I don't base things on feelings, like Trump supporters who squeal over that gross liar for some unknowable, unfathomable reason.

I understand why you don't want to discuss the discrepancies in your postings about Trump.  When you're called out for two-faced hypocrisy, it's uncomfortable.

But when you start in with me, with your defend-Trump-to-the-end BS as though you haven't voiced
a single concern of your own, I'll remind you of it every time.

[XenaLee]

Like it or not @XenaLee === sometimes conservatives are the problem.

Lately conservatives are the faction of "no" ... content to wait for the impossible, no matter the consequences.

This is not helpful or productive in an environment requiring strategic thinking and compromise.

Translation:  When it comes to welshing on deals and betraying your constituents, it becomes necessary to toss out previous values and standards in order to shaft the voters, once again, in true establishment RINO fashion.

Settling for "less" than the desired outcome and nudging voters into a constant scenario of lowered expectations is what the idiot left (and RINOs) always do.  Congratulations.  It's official.  You've arrived.

[XenaLee]

No, @Right_in_Virginia, I don't "feel" anything.  I don't base things on feelings, like Trump supporters who squeal over that gross liar for some unknowable, unfathomable reason.

I understand why you don't want to discuss the discrepancies in your postings about Trump.  When you're called out for two-faced hypocrisy, it's uncomfortable.

But when you start in with me, with your defend-Trump-to-the-end BS as though you haven't voiced
a single concern of your own, I'll remind you of it every time.

It must be all an act over here.  Or....is it an act over there?  (confused)  It's amazing how she's not quite so ""devout"" over at TOS.  Are there two different RIVs posting on the net?  Or.. is it merely a case of (split) multiple personality syndrome?  Inquiring minds want to know.   

[driftdiver]

No, @Right_in_Virginia, I don't "feel" anything.  I don't base things on feelings, like Trump supporters who squeal over that gross liar for some unknowable, unfathomable reason.

@CatherineofAragon

Of course you do, humans are emotional.  So unless you're a blood relation to Spock and not in Pon farr then most of the decisions you make every day are impacted by your emotions.

Leftists understand this and leverage it to their benefit.    Conservatives are still trying to pretend.

[roamer_1]

Some people just like to stir the pot. they really don't care what's in it...

[skeeter]

The GOP's majority after 2018 depends on its achieving tangible results in doing the peoples' business.   It is time to jettison those conservatives who ache only for confrontation and battle,  the casualties be damned.   

We cannot partner with fools. 

 

The GOP got their majorities by promising conservative solutions. Now, in your view, they should maintain those majorities by jettisoning those solutions and tack to the "middle", read left.

Who's the fool?

[Jazzhead]

The GOP got their majorities by promising conservative solutions. Now, in your view, they should maintain those majorities by jettisoning those solutions and tack to the "middle", read left.

Who's the fool?

The GOP leadership sought conservative solutions, only to be rebuffed by the Freedom Caucus.   Why should it be so foolish as to try to partner with them again?   

It is up to conservatives to make themselves relevant.  Trump doesn't care about ideology, he wants results.   So do I.   

[XenaLee]

That's misleading. 

He met with them, heard their complaints, and the bill was adjusted a few times.  One example was the incorporation of the conservative demand for elimination of minimal essential coverages.  But it got to the point where they would be losing too many moderate votes if they gave any more, so they said no more - this is it.  That was based on headcounting votes and knowing what could pass.

The FC said "no" at that point, at which time there weren't enough votes for passage.  So some moderates who had been convinced to vote yes then backed off as well, because they weren't willing to cast a controversial vote in a losing cause.

The problem for Trump and congressional leadership is that when they give too much on the right, they lose votes on the left, and vice-versa.

Funny, but..... losing votes on the right never seemed to bother the Democrats in the slightest.  If you will recall.... they rammed this crap sandwich ObamaCare through in the dead of night on Xmas Eve, and against the will of MOST Americans.  The will and intent of most Americans/voters was made loud and clear last November.  Republicans promised REPEAL, not replace, of ObamaCare.  So why the hell can't they now, with majorities in both branches of Congress, ram through the repeal of Obiecare?  No reason I can see other than, perhaps, gutlessness and obstructionism among the RINOs.   

If for nothing else... when our nation finally is brought down to its knees in deliberately orchestrated collapse... I will be forced to give the Democratic Party some credit.  At least, when the chips are down, they lock arms (not horns) and unite in true Borg fashion to get the job done.  None of this petty bullshit squabbling amongst themselves like the moronic GOP always does.  If only.....

 

[skeeter]

The GOP leadership sought conservative solutions, only to be rebuffed by the Freedom Caucus.   Why should it be so foolish as to try to partner with them again?   

It is up to conservatives to make themselves relevant.  Trump doesn't care about ideology, he wants results.   So do I.

Your attitude is exactly why Washington DC has made such a hash of everything they touch.

Its real simple. Trump and the GOP promised repeal. They lied.

[Jazzhead]

If the FC doesn't learn anything from this, and doesn't become any more willing to compromise, then you're right.  I just hope you're wrong.

I'm hoping I'm wrong too.  But the Freedom Caucus has to learn to follow the lead of GOP leadership.  If it won't, then they (and their supporters) deserve to be marginalized.

There's literally no alternative to GOP unity, in the current environment where the Dems appear unified in opposition.  But with Trump unable to crack the conservative wall of resistance, than he's going to have to try to build a coalition by other means.  Given the Dems' investment in the ACA, a centrist coalition to keep it from imploding is both possible and likely.  No, the fix won't be all that conservative,  but that's too damn bad -  conservatives have decided to deal themselves out.       

[roamer_1]

Trump doesn't care about ideology, he wants results.   So do I.

You're about to get them. Bernie Sanders' single payer style.

[Jazzhead]

You're about to get them. Bernie Sanders' single payer style.

Thanks, Freedom Caucus!   

[skeeter]

You're about to get them. Bernie Sanders' single payer style.

The GOP's lack of ideology has created a vacuum of principle. Nature abhors a vacuum.

[roamer_1]

The GOP's lack of ideology has created a vacuum of principle. Nature abhors a vacuum.

You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything...

[Jazzhead]

Your attitude is exactly why Washington DC has made such a hash of everything they touch.

Its real simple. Trump and the GOP promised repeal. They lied.

Trump and the GOP leadership delivered repeal of the mandates that the voters demanded.   The Freedom Caucus spit the bit.  They couldn't take yes for an answer.  Listen to Rep. Poe - he speaks the honest truth.   

So we're stuck with the mandates, and stuck with ObamaCare.   

[roamer_1]

Thanks, Freedom Caucus!

It's where Trump's been going all the way along. Watch and see.
Then I'll have fun watching you turn yourself inside out selling how good it is.

[skeeter]

Trump and the GOP leadership delivered repeal of the mandates that the voters demanded.   The Freedom Caucus spit the bit.  They couldn't take yes for an answer.  Listen to Rep. Poe - he speaks the honest truth.   

So we're stuck with the mandates, and stuck with ObamaCare.   

I'm not sure why you're complaining - your pretty much on record as supporting the ACA.

And now you get to trash conservatives, too.

Oh happy day.

[Sanguine]

You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything...

Great song. 

Must be a lot of prone and supine Republicans today.

[roamer_1]

Great song. 

One of my favorites.

Must be a lot of prone and supine Republicans today.

As is their natural state. It's hard to be otherwise when one lacks a spine.