Author Topic: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix  (Read 42953 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #250 on: March 28, 2017, 07:01:16 am »
All very nice, but it does not account why an unbreathable atmosphere would be confined to the lungs of the firstborn. Adults and younger siblings should have been equally susceptible.

It's both literal and unliteral.

It took the firstborn.

Also took the others, but many Egyptians even today have a strange relation with their kids. The firstborn male is a little king. The rest are, well, spares, until you get to the youngest, who is another mini king. It's also in the Bible, if you look. Lots of stories about the firstborn sons. Lots of stories of lastborn sons (the light of their age). Bog all about the ones in the middle - think a grand total of two are mentioned despite an entire book being solely begats.

It's not our way. It is theirs.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 07:03:01 am by EC »
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,359
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #251 on: March 28, 2017, 07:18:53 am »
It's both literal and unliteral.

It took the firstborn.

Also took the others, but many Egyptians even today have a strange relation with their kids. The firstborn male is a little king. The rest are, well, spares, until you get to the youngest, who is another mini king. It's also in the Bible, if you look. Lots of stories about the firstborn sons. Lots of stories of lastborn sons (the light of their age). Bog all about the ones in the middle - think a grand total of two are mentioned despite an entire book being solely begats.

It's not our way. It is theirs.

Well, maybe. Traditionally, the eldest inherited the farm/business, the last to leave the nest was coddled, but the second son (and other "middle" children) were the explorers, the achievers, because to have much of a lot in life they had to.
There is even a name for it: Middle Child Syndrome, if you choose to believe.
http://middlechildpersonality.com/middle-child-syndrome/

The theory is that Middle Children had to compete and do outstanding things (good or bad) to get as much attention as the firstborn or the baby.  In reality, without either the magnitude of inheritance or the doting the youngest supposedly got, they had to make their own lot for the future. It isn't as strictly adhered to today in a more egalitarian society (in theory), but still is present enough.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,768
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #252 on: March 28, 2017, 11:36:01 am »
Your truth is what you want it to be.

It all boils down to two things. The good and the bad, black and white, male and female, God and Satan, fire and ice, Conservative and Liberal.

Call it what you will.

What you seek between the two isn't compromise.

It is balance.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #253 on: March 28, 2017, 12:54:01 pm »
The other half of this is that it is up to the constituents to bombard our Representatives with our wishes, that they have a better picture of the desires of those they represent. Make no mistake, the Liberals have been community organized to the point they are doing this regularly, perhaps even claiming to be 'Republicans' (some are, for sure), and thus skewing the idea of what the people back home want.
It is up to us to ensure that stays in focus, just in case our representatives give a d@mn.
That means using the means of communication at our disposal--all of them, from snail mail to e-mail to internet sites for the home district, to phone calls, on at least a weekly, if not daily basis.

If we don't give them feedback, and plenty of it, they will be at the mercy of the Beltway media and the pressures of the GOP 'moderates'.

You're exactly right, @Smokin Joe, and I'm pretty sure this is the main reason that abomination never came to a vote.   

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #254 on: March 28, 2017, 01:00:12 pm »
You're exactly right, @Smokin Joe, and I'm pretty sure this is the main reason that abomination never came to a vote.

I hope you enjoy the continued abomination of ObamaCare!

The WSJ's lead editorial this morning continued to pound the foolishness of the Freedom Caucus,  noting the AHCA's block-granting of Medicaid "would have put the program on a budget for the first time since it was created in 1965".   

 
Quote
A fragile compromise that could attract majority support was rejected [by the Freedom Caucus] in favor of sustaining Medicaid's march into insolvency.  Republicans may not get a better chance for decades to modernize Medicaid in a way that helps the poor and taxpayers, and voters would be right to doubt the Freedom Caucus's evanescent fiscal bona fides. 

The Freedom Caucus's irresponsible behavior will be seen in future years as a tragedy for conservatism.   

It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,407
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #255 on: March 28, 2017, 01:03:14 pm »
@Smokin Joe

Joe suggested giving more feedback .I think we should, but I think we should pull the feed back. Stop feeding the monster. It doesn't listen, it just wants more. And we keep feeding it.

The history lessons are great but no one learns from history. They just learn about it. I think that is mostly because they are too busy playing God.

If someone has some thoughts on how to stop feeding the monster I am all for that.

But it will have to wait. I need to get to bed so I can feed the monster tomorrow.  ^-^

@bigheadfred 

I have one suggestion!  Stop voting for the guy with the most money in primaries. There is a reason why he has the most money in most cases!  Already bought and paid for.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #256 on: March 28, 2017, 01:37:15 pm »
I hope you enjoy the continued abomination of ObamaCare!

The WSJ's lead editorial this morning continued to pound the foolishness of the Freedom Caucus,  noting the AHCA's block-granting of Medicaid "would have put the program on a budget for the first time since it was created in 1965".   

 
The Freedom Caucus's irresponsible behavior will be seen in future years as a tragedy for conservatism.   

Facts just don't get through to you, do they?

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,455
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #257 on: March 28, 2017, 01:47:29 pm »
Bog all

Ahh! a quaint British colloquialism!

It took a minute for the penny to drop on that one.  :)

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,455
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #258 on: March 28, 2017, 01:59:42 pm »
It's both literal and unliteral.

It took the firstborn.

Also took the others, but many Egyptians even today have a strange relation with their kids. The firstborn male is a little king. The rest are, well, spares, until you get to the youngest, who is another mini king. It's also in the Bible, if you look. Lots of stories about the firstborn sons. Lots of stories of lastborn sons (the light of their age). Bog all about the ones in the middle - think a grand total of two are mentioned despite an entire book being solely begats.

It's not our way. It is theirs.

Actually I heard a fair theory on the firstborn thing having to do with that privileged status. Another thing the first born got was the first crack at the food... The first loaf , the best cut...

Now, if the flooding had spoiled the grain, the mold would be in the very top layer... fetching the grain, the top layer would be taken first, and thus made into the first loaf...

An interesting idea, but that doesn't  explain the old man. or the father. It is true the firstborn was first among siblings, but he was not before the patriarch, or his father, who got first crack at everything

If one MUST find a mechanism (which I don't need at all), more likely it would be tied to the firstborn generally being charged with the herd. He would likely be the one to let the herd out in the morning, and take them to water and pasture.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 02:02:15 pm by roamer_1 »

Online corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38,715
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #259 on: March 28, 2017, 02:05:03 pm »
I hope you enjoy the continued abomination of ObamaCare!

The WSJ's lead editorial this morning continued to pound the foolishness of the Freedom Caucus,  noting the AHCA's block-granting of Medicaid "would have put the program on a budget for the first time since it was created in 1965".   

 
The Freedom Caucus's irresponsible behavior will be seen in future years as a tragedy for conservatism.   



   You got cajones the size of King Kong @Jazzhead to be ragging the Freedom Caucus in here, I'll lighten up after I get some coffee.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #260 on: March 28, 2017, 02:27:36 pm »
   You got cajones the size of King Kong @Jazzhead to be ragging the Freedom Caucus in here, I'll lighten up after I get some coffee.

Well, then, so does the Wall Street Journal.   The WSJ's take is that the Freedom Caucus has foolishly set back the cause of conservatism and free markets,  and has blown a chance to fundamentally reform Medicaid that may never come again.   

Of course, to the unwashed here,  even the WSJ is a bunch of wicked commies.    *****rollingeyes*****
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,487
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #261 on: March 28, 2017, 02:31:20 pm »
Well, then, so does the Wall Street Journal.   The WSJ's take is that the Freedom Caucus has foolishly set back the cause of conservatism and free markets,  and has blown a chance to fundamentally reform Medicaid that may never come again.   

Of course, to the unwashed here,  even the WSJ is a bunch of wicked commies.    *****rollingeyes*****


@Jazzhead


Some people on our side likes to live in a safe space. WSJ did state the truth..
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/ and the Eisenhower Caucus: https://EisenhowerCaucus.org

Ronald Reagan: “Rather than...talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems and make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit…earning here they pay taxes here.”

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #262 on: March 28, 2017, 02:38:14 pm »
Well, then, so does the Wall Street Journal.   The WSJ's take is that the Freedom Caucus has foolishly set back the cause of conservatism and free markets,  and has blown a chance to fundamentally reform Medicaid that may never come again.   

Of course, to the unwashed here,  even the WSJ is a bunch of wicked commies.    *****rollingeyes*****

@Jazzhead

The unwashed, huh?  Yeah.

Personally I think the author of whatever you're referencing is probably a moderate to liberal Republican, and one who happens to be egregiously wrong.

Every single thinking conservative I have heard or read understands that the Freedom Caucus saved this country from a disaster of a bill.  My congressman was in that number.  I thanked him for it and encouraged him to keep up the good work.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,455
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #263 on: March 28, 2017, 02:46:45 pm »
Personally I think the author of whatever you're referencing is probably a moderate to liberal Republican, and one who happens to be egregiously wrong.


Well, if it's east of Michigan (see @Cripplecreek , that was for you) and north of the Mason-Dixon Line, you've pretty good odds you're right.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #264 on: March 28, 2017, 02:51:38 pm »

@Jazzhead


Some people on our side likes to live in a safe space. WSJ did state the truth..

Indeed.  Safe spaces are comfortable, and allow one to be seduced by slogans and easy answers.   But political coalitions to achieve fundamental conservative change are ephemeral, fragile things, which once gone may never present themselves again.  That's the WSJ's take on the Freedom Caucus - their ideological blinders rendered a body blow to an historic chance for conservatives.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #265 on: March 28, 2017, 03:03:19 pm »
Well, if it's east of Michigan (see @Cripplecreek , that was for you) and north of the Mason-Dixon Line, you've pretty good odds you're right.

You'd better exclude part of Ohio from that grouping, my friend.  ^-^
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #266 on: March 28, 2017, 03:04:37 pm »
Indeed.  Safe spaces are comfortable, and allow one to be seduced by slogans and easy answers.   But political coalitions to achieve fundamental conservative change are ephemeral, fragile things, which once gone may never present themselves again.  That's the WSJ's take on the Freedom Caucus - their ideological blinders rendered a body blow to an historic chance for conservatives.

You're fighting a losing battle, @Jazzhead.  You're trying to change perceptions, and that's not easy to do.

The problem I see with a lot of people over toward the left of the spectrum is that they tend to see people's problems and don't much care about the practicality of going about helping them.  Thus Obamacare: a heap of regulations built on the sand of economic fantasies.

And over here on the right, we tend to focus on the practicalities and principles, and seem often to forget about the real people who will be affected, usually for the worse, if our ideas become law.  It's not that the principles are bad, it's just that we tend to demand sudden changes -- e.g., today you're covered, and tomorrow you're not.  Real people get hurt when that sort of thing occurs.

There's a middle ground, of sorts, where the people and practicalities should be considered at the same time, but it's a very delicate balancing act.  And yet that is where political compromise has to be found.  If the Freedom Caucus cannot admit the consequences of their policies, or the "moderates" cannot accept the economic realities of their concerns, then no good changes are possible -- and we're left with the fetid mess that is Obamacare.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 03:05:13 pm by r9etb »

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #267 on: March 28, 2017, 03:04:45 pm »
Indeed.  Safe spaces are comfortable, and allow one to be seduced by slogans and easy answers.   But political coalitions to achieve fundamental conservative change are ephemeral, fragile things, which once gone may never present themselves again.  That's the WSJ's take on the Freedom Caucus - their ideological blinders rendered a body blow to an historic chance for conservatives.

What a steaming pile of horseshiite!  'Fundamental change'???  'Ideological blinders'?  Okay Obama.

This whole 'We need to compromise with the Statists and the Left in order to achieve 'fundamental Conservative change' is beyond laughable.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #268 on: March 28, 2017, 03:06:36 pm »
Well, if it's east of Michigan (see @Cripplecreek , that was for you) and north of the Mason-Dixon Line, you've pretty good odds you're right.

@roamer_1

I'm in safe territory...central Virginia, redneck country.

There are exceptions to the rule, though.  Mark Levin was born in NYC, I think.


Mark R. Levin‏Verified account @marklevinshow  17h17 hours ago

 AGAIN, THANK YOU TO THE FREEDOM CAUCUS - ACTUALLY, A MERE 18 CONSERVATIVES - FOR PROTECTING THE COUNTRY FROM A DISASTROUS RINOCARE BILL.


Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #269 on: March 28, 2017, 03:08:29 pm »
What a steaming pile of horseshiite!  'Fundamental change'???  'Ideological blinders'?  Okay Obama.

This whole 'We need to compromise with the Statists and the Left in order to achieve 'fundamental Conservative change' is beyond laughable.

Rational people dismiss such silly mouth-foaming, INVAR.  You're not going to convince anybody if you talk like that in public, except maybe to convince them that anything you're for, they're gonna be against.  Primarily because you act like a jerk.

Try to remember the manners your mother taught you, and you'll be a lot more effective.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,455
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #270 on: March 28, 2017, 03:17:22 pm »
And over here on the right, we tend to focus on the practicalities and principles, and seem often to forget about the real people who will be affected, usually for the worse, if our ideas become law.  It's not that the principles are bad, it's just that we tend to demand sudden changes -- e.g., today you're covered, and tomorrow you're not.  Real people get hurt when that sort of thing occurs.


That ain't a fair shake at all. NO ONE here would object to some sort of self-contained sunset within a year or two... Written into the law, and completed BEFORE the midterm election. That way, it will actually happen. Anything more than that is a crap shoot, and one with poor odds at that.

And it doesn't escape observation that liberal enactments are absolutely sudden, to include the upset this fetid law engendered. Millions of people lost their insurance, yet somehow that gets overlooked. They tipped it over in less than a year, but somehow, it can't be fixed in two. Go figger.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 03:18:50 pm by roamer_1 »

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,455
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #271 on: March 28, 2017, 03:24:03 pm »
You'd better exclude part of Ohio from that grouping, my friend.  ^-^

*SIGH*

@musiclady

All y'all just need to pick up and move to Jesusland... Then I can go back to the normative 'East of the Mississippi and north of the Mason-Dixon Line'... I already had to eat Chicago and Detroit...And Anne Arbor, for Pete's sake...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 03:31:03 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #272 on: March 28, 2017, 03:24:28 pm »
That ain't a fair shake at all. NO ONE here would object to some sort of self-contained sunset within a year or two... Written into the law, and completed BEFORE the midterm election. That way, it will actually happen. Anything more than that is a crap shoot, and one with poor odds at that.

The people talking about "repeal" don't seem to be talking about a sunset provision, so I'll have to disagree with you a bit.  Nevertheless, I think my general point is sound: you see it all the time here at TBR -- enact my principles, and to heck with those leeches who are stealing my money.

The idea of a sunset provision is appealing, but as a matter of political reality that would lead to a solution that leans heavily on "replacement," rather than "repeal."  I actually don't have too big a problem with that, so long as the needle moves in the right direction.  But I wonder if the Freedom Caucus guys would go along with it.

Quote
And it doesn't escape observation that liberal enactments are absolutely sudden, to include the upset this fetid law engendered. Millions of people lost their insurance, yet somehow that gets overlooked. They tipped it over in less than a year, but somehow, it can;t be fixed in two. Go figger.

Absolutely.  The whole mess of regulation and economic fantasy had terrible consequences. 

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #273 on: March 28, 2017, 03:24:44 pm »
Rational people dismiss such silly mouth-foaming, INVAR.  You're not going to convince anybody if you talk like that in public,

I'm not interested in convincing Jazzhead of anything. That was a proven wasted effort some time back.  He has demonstrated he is a Leftist/Communist with an agenda to spew here, nothing more. 

I'm calling him and his ideas what they are and I frankly do not care if anyone likes it or not.

I do not play nice with tyrants or bullies.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix
« Reply #274 on: March 28, 2017, 03:28:11 pm »
I do not play nice with tyrants or bullies.

Meaning you don't play with yourself, I guess.  Which is nice in a "keeping your eyesight" sort of way, but blatant hypocrisy otherwise.

I tend to avoid any interaction with you -- I rarely even read your rants -- precisely because of the way you behave.  Trying to get past your attitude just isn't worth the trouble.