Here we go: Trump now ready to work with Democrats on health-care fix

[Cyber Liberty]

You realize you are arguing with our resident liberal.....

I don't think there's a soul on TBR who doesn't know that about him...lol.   I marvel at his ability to form syllables some days.

[Sanguine]

A "few scraps"?

End the mandates?   Check.  End the subsidies?  Check.  Create the structure for more choices in the market?  Check.   Block-grant the Medicaid expansion, thereby establishing control over future costs?  Check.

These were all CONSERVATIVE features of the AHCA, that moderates were willing to support.   

A "few scraps"?   Spare me your ignorance, willful or otherwise.

Jazzhead, you can throw a few pieces of excellent pumpkin pie into a sewer and it's still a sewer. 

[Jazzhead]

You are definitely an enemy, but with certainty - not one of us.

To be sure, I'm an enemy of your addled mythology, INVAR.  But I'm not an enemy of pragmatic conservatism.  Mesaclone speaks the truth.     

[Jazzhead]

Jazzhead, you can throw a few pieces of excellent pumpkin pie into a sewer and it's still a sewer.

Well, enjoy ObamaCare - you've got it. 

[Jazzhead]

I don't think there's a soul on TBR who doesn't know that about him...lol.   I marvel at his ability to form syllables some days.

Well, here are two syllables - eat me.   

[skeeter]

A "few scraps"?

End the mandates?   Check.  End the subsidies?  Check.  Create the structure for more choices in the market?  Check.   Block-grant the Medicaid expansion, thereby establishing control over future costs?  Check.

These were all CONSERVATIVE features of the AHCA, that moderates were willing to support.   

A "few scraps"?   Spare me your ignorance, willful or otherwise.

Relish on a shit sandwich - government mandated government run health insurance. You obviously dont get it, and it's clear you have no intention of ever getting it.

[corbe]

Moderate Republicans were on board until the FC demanded too much and tipped the political balance.   Reform of the EHB rules wasn't planned for the ACHA, but for later legislation and regulations.   GOP leadership knew that moderates would bolt over eliminating the EHB rules as part of the first step - because they knew that, for moderates, it would be akin to political suicide.    The blame lies at the feet of the FC, nobody else.   

   I'm old enough to remember when Liberals promised Reagan tougher border security if he would just pass Immigration reform, well that second part never happened, fool me once......
   Yes I know those were Dems but at that time they were more moderate than half the GOP is now, JS

[Cyber Liberty]

To be sure, I'm an enemy of your addled mythology, INVAR.  But I'm not an enemy of pragmatic conservatism.  Mesaclone speaks the truth.     

I've asked you this before, so I'm going to ask you again.  What do you mean by "mythology?" 

[Cyber Liberty]

Well, here are two syllables - eat me.   

Wow!  Strung together into a sentence and everything!  You kiss your wife and kids with that mouth?

[corbe]

To be sure, I'm an enemy of your addled mythology, INVAR.  But I'm not an enemy of pragmatic conservatism.  Mesaclone speaks the truth.     

   Ok Game, Set, Match you won @INVAR now comes the 'other' argument.

[mountaineer]

Well, here are two syllables - eat me.   

Well, that was mature.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

If Ryan's goal were to pass the most conservative legislation he thinks could pass, he would have taken the time to work things out and not rammed through this Obamacare lite fiasco.
What is your basis for agreeing with his being reckless and trying to pass a very bad bill?

I think the timeline wasn't his, but I also think he thought this was the best bill that had a chance of passing. 

What happened was that hard-line conservatives insistent on nothing less than full repeal attacked it from the right, Democrats attacked it from the left, and the real bits of gold in the bill --elimination of the business and individual mandates, and block granting of Medicaid -- were too controversial for anyone but hard-line conservatives to celebrate publicly.   And they were mostly lined up against it.  So without major allies, it lost the PR battle very quickly.

The basis for saying Ryan should have been able to hammer things out (again, with TIME) is HISTORY.  I doubt you believe that this is the first Congress with strong egos.

Honestly, I think history supports the idea that major change (both passage of and repeal of ObamaCare) is extraordinarily difficult.  Democrats have been trying since the 70's to get some kind of National Health Insurance (as it was called back in the day) and the closest they could get -- after 40 years -- was ObamaCare in 2016.  Generally, legislation is incremental, not revolutionary.  So I think history backs up claims that getting everyone on board to eliminate a major entitlement program (which has never happened) is extremely difficult.

But Presidents and Speakers haven't always failed this miserably.

I'd agree that if nothing else happens with ObamaCare from now until the midterms, then it would be a failure.  But if some of the folks involve reassess their positions, maybe something gets done and it won't be a failure.  But it is worth nothing that we've never repealed a major entitlement program -- ever.  So if we manage even to repeal just the "entitlement" portion of ObamaCare, it would be huge.

[musiclady]

Well, enjoy ObamaCare - you've got it.

Yeah........... thanks to Trump and Ryan. 

[musiclady]

@Maj. Bill Martin

I appreciate your loyalty to Ryan, Maj. Bill.   I was once loyal to Republicans too.  Until I found out who they were and what they wanted.

I don't know for sure why you think that because something is difficult, it shouldn't be done, but so be it.  I respectfully disagree.

I agree that repealing the entitlement part of Obamacare would be huge.

That is precisely why I wanted the Republicans to put forth a good bill and show the leadership to get it passed.

But, once more, they disappoint.......   

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

I appreciate your loyalty to Ryan, Maj. Bill.   I was once loyal to Republicans too.  Until I found out who they were and what they wanted.

I don't know for sure why you think that because something is difficult, it shouldn't be done, but so be it.  I respectfully disagree.

I agree that repealing the entitlement part of Obamacare would be huge.

That is precisely why I wanted the Republicans to put forth a good bill and show the leadership to get it passed.

But, once more, they disappoint.......   

If a batter waits for the perfect pitch, he's likely going to be called out on strikes every time he goes to the plate.  I fear the FC is waiting for that perfect pitch.

[Cyber Liberty]

If a batter waits for the perfect pitch, he's likely going to be called out on strikes every time he goes to the plate.  I fear the FC is waiting for that perfect pitch.

They don't want to GIDP either, which is what happens to batters that swing at everything.

[roamer_1]

Jazzhead, you can throw a few pieces of excellent pumpkin pie into a sewer and it's still a sewer.

And then nobody wants to eat the pie... 

[INVAR]

I've asked you this before, so I'm going to ask you again.  What do you mean by "mythology?"

He means the bible.

[INVAR]

To be sure, I'm an enemy of your addled mythology, INVAR. 

That you are.

But I'm not an enemy of pragmatic conservatism.

You're worse than an enemy.  You are a liar who pretends to be that which you are not - and then attempts to redefine your Liberal Communism as 'pragmatic Conservatism'.

You are neither pragmatic, nor Conservative.  You are a full-fledged Bible-hating Liberal Communist, by your own words that revealed to us all what you actually are.

[INVAR]

Well, here are two syllables - eat me.   

I think that alone speaks volumes about you and what you are.

[Cyber Liberty]

I think that alone speaks volumes about you and what you are.

@INVAR my friend, I have an admission to make:  I LOLed.  And I couldn't get mad, I goaded him into that.

[musiclady]

If a batter waits for the perfect pitch, he's likely going to be called out on strikes every time he goes to the plate.  I fear the FC is waiting for that perfect pitch.

That IS the 'moderate' talking point.

Not all that close to reality, but it does well as a sound bite. 

[INVAR]

Maj. Bill Martin on Today at 05:29:07 PM
If a batter waits for the perfect pitch, he's likely going to be called out on strikes every time he goes to the plate.  I fear the FC is waiting for that perfect pitch.

That IS the 'moderate' talking point.

Not all that close to reality, but it does well as a sound bite.

More evidence of exactly what I have been saying all along.  For most people, this is all just a big sports event where we can analyze why a team or player is not performing to our satisfaction, rather than recognizing this is about our lives and liberties that too many are willing to trade away in order to watch 'the game'.

The Founders demanded (to use the silly analogy) the 'perfect pitch': a unanimous declaration rather than attempt Independence piecemeal because they understood something we no longer comprehend today: you cannot stop tyranny via civil means, nor expect liberty to be respected a piece at a time.

Liberty is all or nothing.  If that was not the sentiment in order to preserve liberty from tyranny - then we would still be a subject under the Crown.  Instead our forbears fought a bloody war because prostrating before the throne with olive branch petitions just emboldened a tighter fist of tyranny from their indifferent rulers.

But today - we're told we must take what scraps we can get and be content, while the march to Communism and tyranny continues unabated.

[Bigun]

That IS the 'moderate' talking point.

Not all that close to reality, but it does well as a sound bite.

The bottom line in all of this is that swamp dwellers of every stripe have no intention of allowing any draining of their swamp no matter what it takes.

[musiclady]

More evidence of exactly what I have been saying all along.  For most people, this is all just a big sports event where we can analyze why a team or player is not performing to our satisfaction, rather than recognizing this is about our lives and liberties that too many are willing to trade away in order to watch 'the game'.

The Founders demanded (to use the silly analogy) the 'perfect pitch': a unanimous declaration rather than attempt Independence piecemeal because they understood something we no longer comprehend today: you cannot stop tyranny via civil means, nor expect liberty to be respected a piece at a time.

Liberty is all or nothing.  If that was not the sentiment in order to preserve liberty from tyranny - then we would still be a subject under the Crown.  Instead our forbears fought a bloody war because prostrating before the throne with olive branch petitions just emboldened a tighter fist of tyranny from their indifferent rulers.

But today - we're told we must take what scraps we can get and be content, while the march to Communism and tyranny continues unabated.

Let me just say this to you @INVAR -

I am thankful to have you on this forum speaking truths that some are afraid to grasp.  Your knowledge and wisdom is much appreciated, and your ability to articulate truths that many of us believe and try to hold to is remarkable.

I have perhaps been too slow in embracing our heritage and fully understanding it, but I am there with you now!

THANK you!